We agree that personal freedom should exist for everyone. For the sake of this discussion, viability is absolutely relevant and it’s astonishing that you are unable to connect the dots on this. It’s already established that women have autonomy over their bodies without being told what to do before 20 weeks. There is no viability at that point, therefore from a legal standpoint, it would be hard to argue rights for the fetus/human life. Viability indicates that a fetus is a human life at 20 weeks and can feel pain. This is where rights for that human life begins. Where is the personal freedom for this human life? It appears you think some people’s freedoms are more important than others.



Perhaps you should reread where flatbrim addressed this point already on the third page. Reichert hasn’t really established himself as an anti-abortion candidate, simply in support of abortions up to 20 weeks and only after in cases of rape or incest. He said…

“Reichert voted multiple times in Congress, including in 2013, 2015, and 2017 to prohibit abortions after 20 weeks with exceptions for a mother’s health risk and in cases of rape and incest. However these would not ban abortions and just generally bring federal law in line with current Washington State law. I wouldn't exactly characterize this as anti-abortion since you can get one for any reason in the first 20 weeks then after that for health reasons, rape or incest. In fact I'd say this goes right along with him "supporting existing law" as he said he would.”

It looks like you need to think a little harder on this topic Salmo as your arguments fall short on addressing the issue. It’s obvious to everyone here you won’t vote for a Republican under any circumstances. Don’t portray yourself as being moderate at that point. As far as abortion goes, you need to provide more compelling arguments for your position because they have easily been refuted or you should be open to admit that your positions are not predicated on facts but rather personal feelings and bias.


Streamer

I am saying that. But again, when else in society do we kill an innocent human being without using that human's perspective as the primary guidance in the decision?




I'm not removing anyone's freedom or autonomy. A woman can do whatever she wants with her body but after 20 weeks you also have to consider the body of the innocent human fetus, which in my opinion since it is the one being killed, takes precedence over the woman's outside the exceptions for rape, incest and health of the mother.



Abortion has been legal in Washington State up until viability since 1970 prior to Roe v Wade. Roe v Wade has had no effect in Washington and it's repeal has had no effect in Washington. You are against Roe v Wade and the laws in the State of Washington because they don't go far enough because they restrict abortion to viability and you know that no power over womans bodies kind of thing. OK so you are against Reichert who supports the current status quo laws on abortion but are for Ferguson. Well Ferguson has consistently stated his commitment to protecting Washington State’s laws allowing abortion and reproductive care. He has vowed to defend the state’s laws and ensure access to safe and legal abortion services, so he is in support of the status quo as well. But for some reason his website says that Reichert voted 3 times to ban abortion (false as debunked by me above, but also see it debunked here: https://mynorthwest.com/3994264/rantz-fa...o-ban-abortion/).

I'd say your opinion of Reichert has nothing to do with abortion, you just are a far left extremist and don't vote republican. But don't pretend there is some type of abortion difference between these two candidates. If you are going to hate on a candidate for something they both agree on, at least hate on both.

This thread has been by far been the most interesting one since the dark side was banished..

Yeah I bet the COVID vaccine thread would still be going hot on there right now.

Yes. hahaha, If the moderator(s) would have put few more guard rails around the DS we'd still be enjoying all the disparaging, misinformed, and downright funny arguments

What's a Covid?

Too bad the dark side isn’t still around. A lot of things that were said about Covid, the economy, Trump and Biden have all aged humorously well.


Streamer

I have a feeling that it wasn't actually deleted but just shut down. I think it would be great to bring it back, however the moderation it requires is more than the moderation required here.

That would be so gangster to bring it back to see how what everyone has said has aged. Everything I said was 100% true based on solid logic and evidence so I'm good.

http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1045913/7.html

Here is the thread from the dark side that talks about the vaccine. You can still find a lot of these threads through a google search. Lots to laugh about looking at all these pro vaxxxers. I wonder how many of them have complied with the CDC’s recommendations on boosters? How many have the CDC recommended so for for the average person? I honestly don’t know but I think it’s at least 7-8.


Streamer

OK I'm not joking around here but my wife works for the government. So most of the people she works with are vaxtards. So there is this guy who just went in for this 13th booster and had a bad reaction to it, like dude maybe you shouldn't get 13 shots. His wife and 2 children are similarly vaxxed. We are both shaking our heads. Who in their right mind gets vaccinated along with their wife and kids for the 13th time for Covid? Oh and since his wife works for the state they get like $1000 each time she gets vaxxed from Inslee.

WDFW x 1 = 0,

Only once since my last Montana trip. Weird I know, cuz fall is usually prime time.

Streamer,

You posted, "It appears you think some people’s freedoms are more important than others." That's correct. I give deference to the woman to decide, since she's the one carrying the fetus. Granting exceptions after 20 weeks for rape, incest, or health of the mother are logical inconsistencies. If the interests of the fetus supersede the pregnant woman's after 20 weeks, then there should be no exceptions. I'm not going there which is why I decided men should have no say in the matter. I think it's a better outcome for society to allow women to decide when and if there is an exception. I choose not to be a part of that decision.

I will re-look at the Reichert Congressional votes re: abortion. However, that doesn't discount the anti-gay sentiment he expressed. I won't vote for Furguson because he is a slimeball. I'm thinking of writing in Mark Mullet, the moderate D who ran in the primary. I will vote for an R when they are the better candidate. Or, in the case of secretary of state, I won't vote for Dem. Hobbs because Inslee appointed him because he's a Dem., when that seat had been vacated by Wyman, a Republican. Hobbs is reasonably qualified, but Inslee should have appointed a qualified Republican IMO.

Flatbrim,

All I'm saying is that we each mind our own damn business and let the woman decide for herself. I trust that most women are not going to opt for late term abortions unless it's for their own safety. And if and when that isn't the case, then they will have to live with the decision they make. And if you think I'm a far left extremist, then you need to know me better.

Mr. Twister,

Yes, it is interesting. And all because Cliff Mass spilled the beans about how carbon tax funds are being mis-spent. And I'm grateful for that knowledge.

I tend to agree with Salmo inmost things. Like here. I really appreciate the ideas put forth here, both on the site and in this thread because it makes me think, reexamine my ideas, and it brings in new ones.

One thing I learned in my youth, from my parents, church, teachers, and so on was that my freedoms stopped when they infringed on somebody else's. I may passionately believe in something but I should not force someone else to follow that belief. That is the difficulty of living in a free society; one must tolerate beliefs you don't accept. And you must accept, or at least render unto Caesar, decisions you didn't support.

I’m with the flat brimmer here.

I was a 110% right-on dude with every post I, (we, as I was bumped off with a warning or three under the name of “ _ _ _ … “ while posting to another sad bad thread here on the DS ), and in retro spect having looked back and all, they aged quite well ! I say , it was some great debating across the way broad spectrum of silly arsed topics posted with my times at bat.

2many and stoned fish were the two posters that should have been axed years ago, along with the Fishing Goddess !

BTW, there are more nice sized Coho to catch in south sound right now. Does anyone here have an old “Shovel & Rudder” big salmon spinner that they would be willing to part with ? Sale, trade, or Barter, we’re looking to get a couple to replace the last one we lost.

I’m being serious here , but only with the BTW spinner request.

Ok just real quick here. First off thanks for looking into Reichert's congressional votes. I want to briefly address the anti-gay sentiment.

First off sentiments are a person's feelings or whatever and I'm not inside his head, so instead I'm going to focus on two things, what he has said and how he governs based on his votes in congress, which I think are fair game for who you vote for.

OK on spoken word. Firstly, as already stated in this thread, Reichert has told groups of republicans that he believes that marriage is between a man and a woman. However he has since clarified that he is not going to govern under that belief. In a statement shared with The Seattle Times, Reichert clarified that he would not take steps to rescind gay marriage in Washington. Secondly he has stated that he doesn't believe men should compete in women's sports. This is not something the governor has anything other than an opinion on. We elect at the state level a superintendent of public instruction who controls the schools and their sports, so it's out of his wheelhouse. This is not explicitly anti-gay as many gay people agree. I mean if the Seattle dominated liberal democrat legislature bring him a bill banning men in women's sports, he will probably sign it but we both know that bill isn't coming.

Now onto his anti-gay votes in congress. I just searched and there aren't any. There was only one law I could find that he voted on regarding gays or the LGBTQ community. In 2010 Reichert was one of only 15 Republicans to vote for the pro-gay bill repealing "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" allowing gay people to join the military. So gay people can join the military according to Reichert. Looking over his voting record will reveal that Reichert is one of the most centrist bipartisan representatives we have had and not the anti-gay anti-abortion monster that his opponents portray him as. After all, he is a King County Seattle Area guy.

20 gauge is over rated.




I shoot a 28 gauge.

Wow! This post blew up! Just back from 2 1/2 weeks RVing UT big 5 National Parks. My 1st time. Went to all 5. Some very spectacular Geology. Hiked my ass off in some of the most breathtaking scenery I have ever seen. No fishing sorry to say. Quite a debate here, from a modest post about 1 of many intiatives on the WA ballot. Obviously different opinions which one would expect. All I can say is take the time to study and find the accurate FACTS on your issues/candidates, which this discussion was a start. Darkside? NO MORE. Lots of lies and fakes out there which makes it difficult these days to know for sure. Although I voted for Trump once, I will never again. I wish Trump would shut his trap for ever and hope he loses, cause he is a loser! I'm in for a change here in WA, so regardless, I'm giving Reichert a chance w/ my vote. As a proud Independent I have to try to move beyond certain issues to promote change which this state is in need of, and has been for a while. If we don't try it will never happen. It's great to be an American and have that ability. BTW? how is the harbor fishing?

Interesting take you have regarding Trump. I never voted for Trump 2016 or 2020, but I will be doing so here in 2024. I’m not a huge fan of the guy, but he is clearly the best option available. What exactly did Trump say or do that was so terrible? He gave us 4 years in office and respected leadership from the rest of the world. No new wars, diplomacy with North Korean and Russia, a stable economy during the pandemic, and hope for the continued legacy of a great America. “He’s a dictator!!!” Wouldn’t we have seen this by now in the 4 years he was in office?

The Harris/Waltz duo seeks to undermine the American legacy in so many ways. Harris seems out of touch and can’t handle a single interview. 4 years of nothing as VP. Inconsistency with policy. Waltz has demonstrated his ability to lie and fabricate and was ranked 50/50 dead last on fiscal responsibility out of all governors. Complete incompetence from this duo. Is this really the combo you want to lead our country? What is wrong with you?

Your perspective on governorship is at least somewhat redeeming. Reichert is a solid moderate candidate given his positions and voting record as stated earlier by myself and flatbrim. He would be a good change for Washington. Ferguson has a terrible history and doesn’t have the interest of Washingtonians as his first priority. It’s unfortunate that people like Salmo G. can’t see Reichert as being the better option given the discussion in this thread and his inability to back up his claims that have been disproven. Salmo G. tries to appear reasonable yet supports extreme Democrats when the alternative options are the reasonable ones. Don’t be like Salmo. Explore the options for presidency with a bit more reason and perspective.


Streamer

I don't believe I said I would vote for Harris? Just not for Trump. The list is long as to why. Here are a few reasons. 2nd terms hold zero consequences and I think Trump will take full advantage negatively of that. Especially having immunity from prosecution. The Supream Court... "Presidents and former presidents have broad immunity from criminal prosecution for official acts they took while in office" He does'nt care about America. It's all about him and his family. Always has, always will. I watched a documentary on his up bringing/family life. Opened my eyes as to why he acts the way he does. Also, "The turnover rate among political appointees in Trump's administration was record-setting, with many officials leaving their positions within a short time frame". There are resons for that. He's an ASS HOLE! I distance myself from people like that. I could go on and on, but that won't change yours or any others minds, so why bother. Vote your right and I hope not a party line, and I may or may not this time. Either way the choice we have sucks!

Look bruh, I’m not saying I love the guy. He has his flaws, but I’m not voting for a pastor I’m voting for the president. The 4 years he gave us were solid and we know what to expect out of him. I see no upside really to a Harris/Waltz presidency that would be better than what Trump has already delivered. There is only considerable downside potential with that combo due to their inability and policy.

So what are you going to do? Not vote, Jill Stein, or Chase Oliver? Trump’s moral compass might appear broken, but if one’s morality was the sole factor on deciding who to vote for then virtually nobody running for present would ever get elected.

I don’t care if the president is an asshole. Neither should you. Just do the job. Trump showed he can.


Streamer