Went passed the Farmers Market on Collage ST in Lacy yesterday. The sign was advertising wild steelhead for $2.98.per lb. Just another place to stay away from.

[This message has been edited by BW (edited 01-15-2001).]

Staying away would be too kind. We should "picket" the market, or at the least, flood the manager with phone calls objecting to their selling wild game fish! This has worked at other places in the past.

Right with you, Scaly.
But I had no idea phone calls would work.
All any businessman really understands is profit & loss. If they cant sell the product they've purchased, it takes 4 or 5 dollars of profit to regain the cost of the product, on wasted or lost inventory; (spoiled fish).
Somehow convincing the public not to buy wild steelhead at the market would be a good thing, but so many merchants will actually welcome the notoriety of pickets, as it's free advertising.
How do you get around that?

I noticed that they're selling steelhead at Matthew's Thriftway on Cougar Mountain in Issaquah, too.

They didn't specify "wild" or not, but there's only one place to buy steelhead, and those nets are catching a lot of nates right now.

Perhaps the WSC should consider, when the organization is up and running, having a letter that gets sent to retailers, along with a list of those who don't respond favorably.

The nastiest letter in the world won't get one percent of the response that a loss of sales would.

Fish on...

Todd.

Nearly every store I go into, I check the fish counter.(The smell reminds me of my ex wife).
All the steelhead & salmon I've seen have adipose fins intact, and that leads me to think they're selling ranched fish. Maybe I'm incorrect, and they're all natives. If there were a few clipped fish, you could be certain they are netted.
If I was sure of the status, Id raise a little hell with the meat dep't manager.

has any one ever seen a adipose fin cliped in the stores, mainly its eather nates or farm raisen, don't know that they bother with the hatchery fish do they ?

Todd,
I've seen "steelhead" for sale at the local QFC that were obviously pen-raised rainbows (short and fat) but they were described as such, i.e. "pen-raised steelhead". Gawd, I can't imagine what they'd taste like. I haven't seen many fish in the markets with clipped adipose fins, but then I don't think that very many of the fish sold locally are locally caught. Are Alaskan hatchery fish fin-clipped or do hatchery fish form a significant portion of the Alaskan catch?

Just some info, the Quinault Enterprise (fish house) sells steelhead. Although they are marketed as "wild steelhead" they are a mixture of mostly hatchery and some wild. They use the term "wild" because they are not "farmed" fish. There is about a 10 to 15 percent adipose clip rate on the hatchery fish.



[This message has been edited by potter (edited 01-15-2001).]

I have not been by the College St Mkt, but will do so in the next couple days.
I agree with Scaly, picketing would be a better way to prove a point and get the message out. I would be willing to picket if we could get a few people organized.

Here is something I noticed the other day. I saw a white truck (?Ford?) with a (?gill?) net in the back. On the doors it had a sign that read, "C & H Classic Smoked Fish, Specializing in Wild Salmon".

Anyone know anything about this outfit? Are they purely a smokehouse? If so, why the net?. Are they netting and smoking wild fish?



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"Just Say No To Sovereign Nations!"

Dee is absolutely right. We wouldn't want to start off with our foot-in-mouth! The Port Hadlock QFC advertised "steelhead" last year. Fortunately we asked the staff and they assured us they were farmed fish, I think from Idaho. Good idea from Todd, too, above.

Hello! Time to wake up guys. Any one who has seen an ocean raised steelhead, either a native or hatchery origin, can easily tell it from a net pen raised fish. Go to Pike Place Market for gods sake and you will see piles, literally, of fish netted from your favorite Penisula rivers. Look closely and you will see some with adipose fins clipped, but you will also see many with all fins intact. The nets can't tell the difference. Write them a letter, picket, whatever, it is time to make something happen. Pacific Seafood in Muliteo has a special on Hoh river steelhead as we speak, so yes this is really happening. You should also know that in order to sell 'wild' gill net caught steelhead, you must have a special permit from the fish and game dept.
Save our wild fish!

i went in the colege farmers market and had a chat with the guy. the fish came from the queets, quinault, and the chehalis. these are wild and hatchery fish. he tried to sell me some and i told him that i do not support the netting of our rivers, and that i wish they were pen rasied fish instead. and i said i was not thrilled about the price being so cheap and that they must be getting plenty of steely for it to be so low and that sucks. if there is a demand ther will be someone to supply it.

Was down on the lower river yesterday and saw a picup truck with three guys complete with tar heel accents buying fresh native steelhead from a gillnetter that caught the fish right there at the richwine bar. Lets see what is wrong with this picture Drift netting out of jet sleds all day long drift after drift catching only one or two fish per drift dozens of plunkers on the bars with no fish except the ones that they "Gladly" purchae for cash from their local gillnetter good buddy. Did I mention the set nets out in the surf at the mouth of the river. Looks like pretty intense competition Not at all unlike there non native counterparts who are also constantly trying to come up with a bigger better new age piece of gear or equipment to hurry out and get that last one.

Bottom line is, the nets can not choose which fish they kill. Sure the sport fisherman are having impact, but at least there is a large and growing component that supports the release of all wild fish. At this point, until the natives come up with a harvest method that can support the safe release of endangered fish, I fear this battle will simply become more heated. When in reality we should be working together to save these fish.
Save our wild fish!

If the Game Dept. issues permits for the resale of wild fish, then they probably keep a list of whom they issue permits to. Its a guess, but I bet that list falls under the public information law and can be legally aquired rather easily. This would be a great starting point for the WSC.

Start an information campaign that is of positive nature to the people selling the fish and cut the demand for it as fast and as much as possible. Those that choose to continue to sell after this campaign will have to be dealt with in a more unfavorable public forum, ie newspapers, pickets, etc.

We need to come up with a friend at the Times/PI that has some b@lls and will publish why it is not acceptable to harvest wild steelhead, and then list those sleezeballs that sell it.

Steve

I saw farm raised steelhead at QFC and, boy, were they ugly. Nevertheless, my curiosity won out and I bought some.

I took it home and cooked it up. My impression was that it tasted like **** - I could only imagine that short, fat fish with it beaten up fins as I choked down a few bites. It was bad, but it did not remind me of anybody's ex-wife (see post above).

I don't know how much of my reaction was psychological. Perhaps somebody less well versed in our sport would have found it tasty. Irrespective, I am not about to conduct that experiment on any of MY friends.

As for retail outlets selling supposed wild steelhead, this is a matter that the authorities should address. I hope the penalties for selling wild steelhead are stiff enough to prevent the retailers from risking a second offense.

If anybody knows the relevant laws on this subject, please could you post them.

Happy New Year to all and many thanks to Bob who does such a great job running this site and catching fish for his clients.

G-spot
Seattle

Preston,

This is what information I have on steelhead caught in AK. I fished commercially up in SE for 5 seasons. We did not catch many steelhead, probably less than 50 each year. All were wild. Most were kept by the crew since the price was too low to sell them. I believe that they do release hatchery steelhead in some of the road accessible systems. I do recall seeing signs suggesting the release of all wild fish. The law allowed two trophy steelhead (greater than 36 inches)per year with no limit on hatchery steelhead. Most of the fish we caught were smallish (likely PWI fish). In the mid 80's, my brother's boat caught and weighed at Phillips cannery a 47 lb. steelhead and a 97 lb chinook on the same day. Both fish were dressed before weighing. Pictures were taken but I have never seen them.

DaveD

I recently read and article on hatchery salmon in Alaska and their effect on wild runs. Apparently 1.6 billion smolts are released into Alaskan waters. These contribute 56% of the Cook Inlet,Kodiak and Prince Williams Sound salmon fisheries. In Prince Williams sound 78% of the pink harvest is hatchery produced. In Southeast Alaska 70% of the chum are hatchery fish. The ADFG web site has some pretty extensive stats on hatchery salmon in the salmon fisheries/salmon enhancement section.

I'm all for a picket line at the Market in Lacey.

Dead Wild Fish makes me ILL!!!

I don't understand why the Quinalts need to net the Chehalis

Targeting Wild fish is wrong I don't give a **** about inadvertant catch BS....theres plenty of fish in you're river....all they're doing is taking from one system and not returning $hit to it...at a 1.25 a lb I think I'm gonna be sick.ARRGGG....Os

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Row Quietly and fish a Cataraft
Release all Wild Fish----<'))>>{

I'm up for a picket line, at Pike Place as well. The fish markets hate to see, I tend to get loud and make a scene when I see wild fish in piles packed on ice. I know I've lured their customers into walking away in the past. In larger #ers it could only hurt business more.

Os,

Perception equals reality, or so I’ve heard. And some, including the Quinault, perceive things differently than you. Why is your perception right and theirs wrong?

Are you opposed to wild fish being killed when the population is deemed healthy enough to sustain the catch? I don’t like to see wild salmon or steelhead harvested if their populations cannot sustain, or only marginally support, a harvest. But tribal fishery managers probably see the steelhead population as being healthier than you or I do. Given that information and support (a legal fishery opening), the treaty fisherman is just doing his job and trying to catch fish. Pretty straight forward.

And there exist cultural differences. I’ve known Indian fishermen who think it makes perfect sense to fish for food or commercially to sell fish, and that it is senseless to fish for kicks like most recreational anglers do. And I’ve known some who enjoy sport fishing as well. But fishing is a traditional cultural activity for northwest Indians; that’s well established. So they fish the Chehalis for the same reason they fish the Humptulips, Queets, and Quinault; they are all rivers in their usual and accustomed fishing area as defined by the court. Why would they be interested in your perception of where they ought or ought not to fish? And they don’t want to change. Kinda’ like some white gillnetters, purse seiners, trollers I’ve met as well.

Since I don’t think I’m easily going to change how you think, I would predict no easier task in changing how a treaty Indian fisherman thinks. I don’t expect treaty fishermen to change until it is in their interest, and they believe it is in their interest, to do so. You want them to change? Offer a better alternative.

Work towards making the fish marketplace unattractive for steelhead, especially wild ones. Next comes the more difficult coordination and logistical effort. I’ll keep pushing this idea because I think it has long term potential. Collectively, through the state perhaps, we will eventually offer to buy a tribe’s projected catch and pay them to leave the steelhead in the river. As a nation we have subsidies that are crazier than that. I feel we should encourage tribes to exercise their treaty rights and take what they need for ceremonial and subsistence use. But they will eventually be able to earn more by leaving the commercial portion of the steelhead catch in the rivers and selling them to the recreational fishery. Low prices in the marketplace due to farmed fish and low public acceptance of wild steelhead harvest can help bring this about.

In the long run, it’s about satisfying interests. Yours, mine, theirs.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

I went by the College st Market and inquired about the wild steelhead. The young man working behind the counter showed me some monsters that he just filleted. When asked where they came from his eyes got big and he said he wasn't sure. Then my 10 yr old son said something about the cowlitz and the counter boy mentioned that he and his family fishes the zoo at Blue Crk.

I am sure the kid knows that selling wild fish is not a popular thing amongst fishermen, and that is why he got antsy when I asked about them.

I am all for working with ya' all on a picket.
READ! A responsible, organized picket with releases sent to radio, print, and tv media.

I have a background in promoting, (musicians, benefits) and I know some of the ins and outs of PR.

I believe that if it is to be done, it should be done quickly (within a few weeks) and am willing to meet with anyone anyday of the week in Thurston County.

I think at least 3-4 people (more/merrier) should have at least one meeting to brainstorm and prepare info so we can pass it on to others in a fast and direct manner.

Obvioulsy this would not be a P.P. board action, but a concerned citizens action including anyone who wants to attend and will perform in a respectable manner.

To further the cause, maybe we could come up with a "picket day". A day that others could picket their local market/store/tribe that sells wild steelhead or salmon.

What would I hope to accomplish?
Positive info about the indiscriminate killing and damage that nets do. Bring awareness to the public about our declining stocks and ask the general public to purchase farmed fish (eeeww).

riverswild@hotmail.com

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"Just Say No To Sovereign Nations!"

Monies are not distributed evenly within the tribes. So even if you made the marketplace unattractive. That is both local, and foreign markets. And the tribes finally agreed to sell their rights to steelhead. You would have members of the tribe who are not seeing any of this, pay-off, and would continue to harvest fish beyond what they need, to try to make a profit.(road side sales) The whole thing would go back to enforcement and reporting numbers.
I am still surprised that there is no place to get the numbers, of what amount of steelhead are being sold, by each tribe, from what river system. I feel the fishbuyers should provide this information or require it at time of sale. This information should be made publicly available, if the tribes are doing nothing wrong, this shouldn't be a problem. (I am talking honest numbers. X amount of money for X lbs of steelhead. This percentage was wild.)
If you guys organize a protest, that would be great, but I feel there is nothing that will ever be done. A few more years like this years overharvest and I think it will be time to start working on my golf swing, and dust off my snowboard, cause....We lost.

KORE "WE LOST" SPEAK FOR YOURSELF OK? I STILL HAVE HOPE AND IAM BRAINSTORMING EVERY DAY AND I WILL NOT GIVE UP! I SUGGEST YOU DONT EITHER...PEACE OUT

As far as any print in any of the papers on indian issue's that would be a negative it just will not happen their policy is none bias. For years of seeing things done even illegally delivering pictures of these instances I have been told sorry our policy is don't get involved makes you wonder why!!!