Interesting read. Those lawsuit fish culvert projects funding is directly related.
https://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2024/

I didn't know that the state was using CCA money on the fish culvert projects. That's rediculous.

Ahh, yes, another example (s) of wa state spending our monies on programs and projects that show no goals, measure no outcomes, and cannot determine effectiveness.

Just some more examples of what’s been going on while we all snooze away. We allowed this to happen, you keep mediocrity in power, and voila - these are the outcomes.

Time to vote again folks, 4 more years, 4 more years, .....

Of course! Where else, besides regressive taxes on citizens, does this state ever find money to pay off its lawsuits?

I personally like the idea of the CCA, but like all things that end up costing corporations money, it can only mean higher consumer prices in the end. It's not a great choice we've been given: pay up now or let our children and grandchildren pay a lot more later.

Let's just say, for grins, that air pollution through the release of CO2 is one of the major drivers in the speed of Climate Change. Shouldn't the people that actually put out the stuff pay for it?

I am not happy that DOE and Inslee essentially lied about the cost of the tax but I, as a consumer of gasoline, put that **it into the air. And if I drive/use gas guzzlers I put more in than a quiche-eating EV driver. Shouldn't I pay more for the amount of pollution I cause?

One of the hallmarks of this state's wastewater discharge permits is that the polluter pays. Well, actually, polluting businesses pay while municipalities get subsidized by business but that's another argument. Why not for air, too?

Keep voting for Democrats and expect things to be different. It’s been 40 years since we’ve had a Republican.

At what point is it time to try something different?



Streamer

When you get a good socially liberal fiscal conservative Republican (like the late Dan Evans) we'll get a change. Keep running the Birds and such and they'll continue to wander in the electoral and governmental wilderness.

I didn't mean to imply that I'm opposed to taxes on pollution and that pay for climate mitigation. That should be a good thing. What I find ridiculous is using that money to fund projects unrelated to pollution and climate mitigation and that the grants don't require applicants to demonstrate how their project mitigates climate change and by how much. The lack of nexus and metrics is irresponsible, and oh so Inslee-like IMO.

Those suggesting we only need to vote for an R governor instead demonstrate a lack of awareness. C'man is right; only a socially liberal, fiscally conservative R can win a statewide election (Dan Evans style essentially). But the Rs consistently nominate candidates who are anti-abortion and anti-gay and queer and whatever, and those are deal breakers in consistently socially liberal WA. So Ds like Inslee and Fergie, no matter how whack-a-doodle they are, get elected. And BTW, neither candidates give a damn about fish and wildlife. Inslee has shown that he cares about the environment so long as it generates more taxes, but he has demonstrated that he's all too willing to spend that tax revenue on projects that don't mitigate the pollution that the tax is for. And that pisses me off.

Unless you haven't been paying attention or watching the debate. Im pretty sure reichert is that guy. He sees there is a spending problem in this state. Unless you have been living under a rock. And its been made clear that abortion will be safe under state law and nobody's gay rights will be infringed, as they have always been protected. So dont let your feelings trump the facts. This election is about a whole lot more than the fish. Its about how can we turn this mess around created throughout the dimslee spending era. Id also put them in a tyrant criminal class rather than whack-a-doo you know for like habitual lying, censorship and infringing on my second amendment right, that has put quite a few ma and pa gun shops out of biz. So yeah, we need a republican. You see where rfk jr went, for the better of the country. May want to do some real homework before you vote or let your feelings get in the way of it.

Electing a Republican governor will accomplish next to nothing. The laws get made by the Leg and buy your local community governments. Gotta start there.

And it starts with not voting for Democrats as I have said. The problem is people with blinders who vote along party lines and only for Democrats regardless of circumstances or what is in their best interests.

CM, you for example said in the past that social issues are most important to you when deciding on what candidate to vote for, yet what you’ve spoken to the most in terms of what you value are other issues where you admitted that Republicans would do a better job. Why is it that the social issues are the most important to you when you are neither gay nor trans and not seeking an abortion? Why are these social issues determining what candidate you vote for? It seems like your logic is off and you should be endorsing more conservative candidates to facilitate the changes you are looking for.


Streamer

Fish culverts are becoming very expensive to install.

However........Earthwork Contractors and the frogs that call the culverts home thank you.

I find myself, as Dave Horsey said in the Times, that he and I (and I am sure many others) are "Dan Evans Republicans". The social issues such as abortion, LGBTQ etc, compassionate immigration (which neither side seems to do) are rather deal breakers. While I certainly want to pay "less" taxes (whatever that is) I recognize that we need fire, police, military, infrastructure, and those societal goods that require funding. I would vote for conservative candidates that provide solutions, not simply "no".

I understand that. It isn’t answering the “why” you are focused on social issues that don’t directly impact you? Are you gay, trans, getting an abortion or an illegal immigrant? Your answer to these is no, so why is that the most important to you?


Streamer

Because people are important to me. I believe that we each are entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Comes out of the religious training that I had.

Heck, by the "it doesn't impact you" idea, I don't have to worry about tornadoes and hurricanes yet I support relief for those impacted.

CM,

What religious training did you have that supports abortions, being gay or trans? To my knowledge none exist.

I support some relief to hurricane victims, but it also isn’t a primary area of concern for me. Seems like a bad analogy and poor justification on your end.


Streamer

Primarily Lutheran. Thise topics never came up in the 8 years of elementary education. By the time I got to college the churches I was in were supporting those issues. Let God decide. I was taught compassion for my fellow humans and a responsibility to help as I am able.

While you support "some" relief for hurricane victims what is your view and the volcanoes, earthquakes, and tsunamis that have and will strike here? That and floods, which seem to go all over. Having read quite a bit about the Cascade Subduction zone 'quake, which is getting overdue, will mess things up here for years. We gonna rebuild by ourselves?

Ok First off Martin Luther the founder of your religion himself was against homosexuality. He lectured against sodomy as a sinful behavior, alongside other vices like adultery and fornication as beyond God's will. See Lectures on Genesis by Martin Luther for more details. As for abortions, it’s essential to consider the historical context in which Luther lived. During the 16th century, the Catholic Church’s teachings on ensoulment and the concept of “quickening” (when the fetus becomes viable) influenced Christian thought on abortion. Protestant Reformers, including Luther, retained these teachings, emphasizing the full humanity of the fetus from its earliest stage. The quickening is when the fetus starts moving and just happens to be around the same time when you can no longer get an abortion in this and most civilized states. Now enough about the author of On the Jews and their Lies and onto the bible itself.

Check out the old testament, right at the beginning in Genesis 19:1-29: has the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, where God destroys the cities for their wickedness, including primarily homosexuality. Or check out Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13: These passages condemn same-sex sexual activity as an “abomination” and punishable by death. Maybe you are more into the new testament such as Romans 1:26-27 where Paul describes same-sex behavior as “unnatural” and a consequence of humanity’s rejection of God or 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 where Paul lists “homosexuals” (along with other sexual sinners) as those who will not inherit the kingdom of God. Also one of the ten commandments in the original hebrew read 'thou shall not commit sexual immorality' which is understood to include incest, adultery, prostitution and homosexuality.

Ok so the homosexuals are out, so what about the transgenders? Well Genesis 1-2 describes God creating humans as male and female. Then Matthew 19:4-5: Jesus affirms this creation account, stating again that God created male and female. So there is no such thing as a non binary. Then you have Deuteronomy 22:5 a biblical prohibition against cross-dressing in the context of cultural practices of the ancient Near East, where men and women were expected to dress in ways that conformed to their biological sex.

As for abortion during the ancient biblical times people sacrificed their sons and daughters to Molech. Jeremiah 32:35: "They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molech, though I never commanded—nor did it enter my mind—that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin." God commanded people not to sacrifice their children to molech, Leviticus 18:21: “You shall not give any of your children to offer them to Molech, and so profane the name of your God: I am the Lord.” Modern abortion, particularly in the context of convenience and sexual freedom, bears striking similarities to the ancient practice of child sacrifice to Molech. Both Molech sacrifice and abortion involve the intentional taking of innocent human life, disregarding the inherent value and dignity of the child. In both cases, the decision to sacrifice or abort is often driven by convenience and expediency, rather than a consideration for the well-being of the child or the moral implications of the act. While modern abortion may not involve a literal statue like Molech, it can be seen as a ritualistic or ceremonial act, where the fetus is terminated as a means of resolving an unwanted pregnancy or achieving personal goals.

So brah I don't know what kind of religion you follow but nothing in the bible or in Luther's teaching supports homosexuality, transgenderism or abortions and in fact a fair reading of these texts would indicate their condemnation. Martin Luther is probably rolling in his grave over what you claim to believe in his name. I highly suggest you spend more time reading the bible and the complete works of Martin Luther including On the Jews and their Lies!

Isn't this a fishing website? Why don't you take your political and religious views views to a political or religious website.

Ah Lifter, and deny us the human interest and infotainment value of slightly off topic posts? This website is practically dead, so I'm in favor of any content value that adds interest here, including Flatbrim's historical biblical content. I think it's best to just pass over and ignore posts or threads that don't interest you. In this thread, some members are taking a look at politics to see if that process might offer any solutions to what we think is wrong in fisheries management. Considering that our local fisheries are very much affected by political institutions, it seems to me like it's worth a look.