ZoZo,
I believe we must be sensitive toward the tribes' legal right to net, but I agree wholeheartedly with the lack of tradition netting involves. That argument just doesn't hold water. The tribes sustainably harvested fish for hundreds of years, but they didn't accomplish that by recklessly netting runs into oblivion. At that time, "traditional" methods (which I would love to see return) were effective on healthy runs. Times have changed. The runs are much weaker, and the tribal slaughter is much more thorough. I am of the opinion that it is no longer dignified to commercially exploit native runs, especially considering the minimal economic value of the practice. I am shocked that the tribes don't realize this. It doesn't seem very, uh, "traditional" of them. They have a legacy of sustainable use of resources, and it would seem to me that they would like to protect that. It's unfortunate that they're losing sight of it.

ZoZo,
I believe we must be sensitive toward the tribes' legal right to net, but I agree wholeheartedly with the lack of tradition netting involves. That argument just doesn't hold water. The tribes sustainably harvested fish for hundreds of years, but they didn't accomplish that by recklessly netting runs into oblivion. At that time, "traditional" methods (which I would love to see return) were effective on healthy runs. Times have changed. The runs are much weaker, and the tribal slaughter is much more thorough. I am of the opinion that it is no longer dignified to commercially exploit native runs, especially considering the minimal economic value of the practice. I am shocked that the tribes don't realize this. It doesn't seem very, uh, "traditional" of them. They have a legacy of sustainable use of resources, and it would seem to me that they would like to protect that. It's unfortunate that they're losing sight of it. Unfortunate for everyone.

Femfisher-- We will be in touch in the near future, and yes it's a bunch of [Bleeeeep!]. Potter, you may pull some wool over some folks' eyes, but I know right where some of the nets are in the Chehalis (granted they are not your tribe) and they are definitely in right now. You should be ashamed of yourselves for selling polluted fish, but I guess if whitey dies and we make money, then we win. Oh yeah, I'm sorry, you don't sell polluted fish, but you're quick to point out that it's legal to do so....regardless if it's morally correct or not.

hey_yall, I am a Quinault member and those are Quinault nets in the Chehalis Sun thru Thur.

I don't know of anyone who has died from eating a Chehalis fish or even anyone who claims any sickness from these fish. I simply stated the fish taste funny to me and that the water has pollution problems.

Flyfisher, you brought up an interesting "word". Traditional! Was that not cedar bark nets, spears, and arrows? When did mono-gillnets "white man technology" become indian tradition?

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Catcher1,
I believe that when the word "traditional" is used it is referring to the tradition of harvesting fish and wildlife for sale and or trade for subsistence purposes. The arguement about them using monofilament nets is lame and very old. They have progressed as we have. Should we go back to riding horses and using covered wagons to get around in? Of course not. Why should they be stuck in the 19th century when we have moved into the 21st! At the moment we have to live with the nets. we don't have to agree with it but we do have to live with them. We have got to get beyond the us and them thing. If we, as sportfishers play our cards right the tribes may be our best allies in this fish recovery problem.

Just my thoughts.

Not all tribes are netting the wild steelhead so don,t bunch us all in together.I mean when i see a snagger i don,t get on here and call all white people snaggers and poachers.

Nativepride does your tribe net?

Potter, If tribe and sport split the harvest then why the quinalt targeted fall chinook fisherie and closure for sport on the mainstem chehalis? Also, are tribes fishing for steelhead or springers right now. I thought steelhead to be almost done?

Like the NETS give a $hit what they catch....OOPPPSSS another Native Steelhead....DOOH

I tired of hearing this BS "Oh we contribute to other systems ....Ya Right using "our" federal tax dollars,so we can be told sorry this system is closed....To sportsman but not Nets ........my venting is done.....for now.......Os

Nativepride, The simple fact that you are using such a comparison for your defense when it comes to the tribes (All the tribes rape of our fish and wildlife populations) suggests in itself that you know what the tribes are doing is wrong(comparing indian netting to other unethical harvesting practices). First off let me address your denial of the tribes taking native fish:Nets do not discriminate when it comes to native vs. hatchery fish. Therefor, if a gillnet is in the water, it is potentially going to kill native fish. Secondly, do not hide behind the implication that snagging is a white man thing. The best snaggers I've ever seen in my entire life are the Skokomish Indians harvesting Fall Salmon on tha Skokomish river ( the indians are only allowed to net three days a week, so they spend the other four days harvesting fish by snagging them with lead and triple hooks. Sad but true.) Lastly, I wasn't going to go there, but as long as you mentioned poaching.... The only difference between outright poaching and the tribal hunts for elk that have been going on in the St Helens area is that some poor, mis guided judge gave you the "legal right" to do it. The tribal hunts are no less morally or ethically out of line than poaching. So don't try to draww comparisons between what tribal and non tribal fishermen and hunters do, because you either don't know or refuse to acknowledge the paralells between tribal harvest rights and unabashed slaughter. Feel free to respond when you come up with an arguement that actually holds water.


[This message has been edited by LittleZoZo (edited 03-29-2001).]

I guess I'm still not up to speed on all this. Or too dense to understand.
I have copies of the Stevens Treaties, and the Boldt decision. I've studied the language, and there is nothing in either document entitling the tribes to a mandatory 50 percent of the fisheries. Where does this perversion come from? Neither the treaties nor Boldt mention commercial fisheries. I do know where it originated, but there appears to be no treaty guarantee to a commercial fishery.
Alaska, B.C., and Oregon appear to allow the tribes a subsistence fishery, without regulation. In my opinion this was the intent of the treaties, as well as Boldt's intent.
From the information I have, any and all commercial fishery in those states / provinces requires commercial licensing, same as here, regardless of ethnicity. (different from here)
I'd really like to hear from someone who's knowledgeable of the subject.

ZoZo

You got to be kidding me. According to your statement, being an Indian and having knowledge of tribal netting makes that Indian guilty of some moral wrong, regardless of whether or not he participates in tribal fishing and hunting. Thats just wrong.

Vic,yes we net and yes we catch wild steelhead.255 this year to be exact we have been done for about 2 months now.Zoie it is not wrong or illegal if there are harvestable fish left.I,m not saying we don,t catch wild fish.As far as the hunting goes we have always had the legal right the courts are just affirming that right.

Vic,yes we net and yes we catch wild steelhead.255 this year to be exact we have been done for about 2 months now.Zoie it is not wrong or illegal if there are harvestable fish left.I,m not saying we don,t catch wild fish.As far as the hunting goes we have always had the legal right the courts are just affirming that right.

Well, it's good to know your tribe is doing its part to make sure the runs stay strong. That's just sick. 255, just your tribe has probably killed more natives than all the sportsman in this state combined. I hope the $.80 a pound you get from them goes a long way in helping your tribe run your traditional casinos and your traditional relationship with the Japanese. Sorry for the rant, that just pisses me off.

Nativepride:

If the tribes were fishing for subsistence I wouldn't complain about tribal fishing at all. Most of these fish are winding up in restaurants (Big Daddy's in Woodinville for those of you who would like to join in my boycott) the Pike Place Market and some are even left to rot on the banks of our rivers. It has become clear to me that the tribes don't give s sh!t about the fish or the game in our state, and are only interested in making money, which makes them just as bad as the buffalo hunters of the late 1800's. You guys continue to net rivers that have runs of fish that are near extinction (The Humptulips Kings for example, and don't even try that "Its Ok because we are targeting Coho" crap either. Nets kill everything that swims into them and those runs take place at the same time). You guys leave Chums and Humpies on the bank to rot after you have gutted the hens. I have heard about tribal members on the coast that shoot upwards of 50 antlered elk per year and sell the horns to Oriental Herb stores in China town. The stories go on and on and on!!! I don't want to lump all tribal members together, and say that they are all bad, I am sure that there are some in the tribes that are as angry as I am about the way that some choose to abuse the resource. For most of us the only exposure that we have to the tribes is the BS that we see and hear about on our rivers and hunting grounds. It is obvious to me that the few that are concerned about the resource don't have enough clout to make the others act responsibly. I think that it is time that we start exposing the tribes and their wasteful behavior. Whoever suggested protesting at the Pike Place market to get this issue out in the publics face was right. Set a date and I will be there!!! It is about time that the general public learned what these A-holes are doing.

Good post! A very good post indeed.

Wa fisher try looking on w.d.f.w website under steelhead harvest.There are alot of wild steelhead killers on the coast.Vic i,m not from the coast so wouldn,t know about the hump or the elk you are referring too.Our tribe bought all our steelhead put them away not one wound up in a restaurant.Zoie no i do not think it,s right for anybody to waste these fish as you are saying.As for leaving the elk it,s hard for me to believe that story.Rich g why would the state side with the tribes i don,t understand?I mean whats in it for them to do that?