SB, I have to make an example of your post as something that we don't want on this site anymore! Right after some members chastised SS for his C&K mentality, Bob came in and set the record straight. Did you have to come in after Bob's post and flame with foul name calling?!? No. That only stirs up flaming that snowballs to nowhere. The $ is fine when you want to use that in a more appropriate posting, but let's all cut the name calling flames. Thanks. - RT

Edit: Thanks for editing your post SB. Really appreciated! And I hope Mr. Stick gets the point. But I have my doubts that his mind could be changed for the better; I think perhaps his self esteem needs are stronger than our reasoning?

[ 04-06-2001: Message edited by: RT ]

What a shame!!!! I think this picture needs to be GONE from here!!!

(Before I continue, let me say that I think it is wrong to kill any animal whose species is endangered. I also think that as long as anyone is stringing gill nets across the rivers, all the arguing about C&R vs. C&K is rather moot. From the little I've seen, only about 1 out of 5 people with a rod-n-reel have any clue what they're doing, so they're not much of a hazard to the fish.)

It has always puzzled me why C&R advocates think so highly of themselves WRT preservation of the species. I mean, if you hook a fish that just swam upstream 100 miles, then fight it for 1/2 an hour with a hook stuck in its mouth, do you think it's going to be in any mood to spawn, if it survives at all?

Would you shoot a deer with a bow-n-arrow (carefully, in a non-lethal location), then track it until it is too weak to run, patch up its wound, and send it on its way? Of course not. The deer might not survive. Why do this to fish?

I hear you guys bragging about how you C&R multiple fish per day. Don't you think this induces about the same mortality as the fella that catches one fish, kills it, then goes home?

I know it's a terrific thrill to catch a big fish, but how can you rationalize your treatment of the fish, and then be so inflammatory when someone asks about killing and eating one?

If you really want to protect the species, why not leave them alone?

Thanks, and regards.

Mike
Woodinville

What is wrong with catching fish to eat? When I catch a fish big or small, and it's within the law I eat it, I must say I enjoy fishing but also enjoy eating them. If it's wild or a cliped I still eat them. It is my understanding that not all non clipped fish are wild some of them are hatchery.

I can't remember ever playing a fish for 30 minutes other than oversize sturgeon. If you have that much trouble with salmon or steelhead its time to gear up to something that can land these fish in a reasonable(short) period of time, especially when fishing c & r.

As far as keeping fish to eat, whats wrong with hatchery fish? There are plenty around and thats what they're here for. Down here in Oregon they instituted c & r on unmarked fish several years ago and the returns the past few years have been great. Try it and I think you'll like it.

If you want to bonk a 20lb fish go to the Cowlitz they get a few huge hatchery fish every year. Let the native steelhead spawn man.

By the way, If you catch a great big steelhead and measure it for a reproduction, then you can make it look alot better than it actually was in real life, Foe instance I have caught four fish this year that were over 20 lbs according to the length and girth measurements. The biggest happend to be a colored up buck, but I garauntee you when I get the repro done it won't be that colored, just my 2 cents worth.
Peace Superfly

I agree with Finegrain (Mike). The nates do their best to make it back to the rivers only to have fisherman jerk them off the spawning beds. Do you actually think this does no harm? And folks often go to their 'favorite' spot which is the same location, over and over, catching the same fish multiple times potentially.

If your truely concerned about the health and well being of the nate runs, you will focus your efforts on the hatchery fish and minimize your nate fishing. I'm not saying end it, but in years of recent, there is way more boats on the rivers during the nate run than there is during the hatchery run. The recent closure of all fishing during the nate run didn't bother me at all. I was amazed at the people whining about not being able to fish for them because all they do is C&R. It may be better than C&K, but it still does harm. If the runs ever become viable again, this is a mute point, but for now, it is something to consider.

As for bonking 'a slab', I'd say thats been covered pretty well.

Steve, I'm suprised to hear that there are more boats and pressure on the nate runs up in NW Washington than on the hatchery runs. Enough so that I wonder if you are refering only to this season when the brat runs were missing, and thus cut down the usual pressure on them? In Oregon the pressure drops way off after the brats taper off and the nates are more abundant. Always, including with this poor hatchery run season. Of course that could be because they can't keep nates in Oregon. ... I am also concerned about your claim of fishers "jerking" nates off of their redds; in fact making it sound as if that's what the majority of fishers do. I am suprised to hear that opinion; especially in light of the fact that fish on their redds aren't in prime condition. And I would think that the stronger prevalence of knowledable true sportsmen among the C&R fishers would not be likely to due this. In fact, I bet that most of them fish normal holding water rather than on up the river on shallow redds. What do most of you guys see out there concerning this issue? (Not trashing your rightful opinion Steve - just wanting to know more about what's happening out there. See my thread "THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT C&R SURVIVAL AND PAIN FACTOR?").

RT

First of all the chiefs suck. Second of all you can go to Sportco in Fife and buy one for 500.00 bucks (Welcome to the 21st century replica's). You'd save yourself alot of money. Guide 300.00 bucks. Gas 30.00 bucks. Motel 50.00 bucks. Food 40.00 bucks. One stuffed wild fish 500.00 bucks. Total 920.00 bucks. Sportco fish 500.00 bucks. Wild fish 920.00 bucks. Savings to you 420.00 bucks.

RT, I think two points you touched on are lending to what I am stating. First one, "knowledgeable fisherman". There are plenty that don't fall into this catagory and will fish anywhere on the river, as long as the can hook into a fish. On the Sky, the upper run usually closes March 1st if memory serves me. There are plenty of boats hammering this area right up until the close and this is the beginning of the spawning area. Doesn't seem right.

Second good point is the lame brat run and everyone with SH addicition needing a fix. The nates are that fix. Combine this with the fact that the real hogs comes up during the nate run, and most of us enjoy fishing for the big boys compounds the problem.

It will be interesting to hear some others observations on this.

Hmmmmm...Interesting photo, this "Awesome" fish appears to have net marks present and sitting in large bin of ice. Looks suspicious to me!!!

Time to Dump the pic of the Dead Nate,we've been set-up......keep trolling there Stubby......Os

I see by you're other post you want to catch a world record Salmon and now a 20 lb steelie too.....wow you sound like you want top be....
RT .....Os

[ 04-06-2001: Message edited by: Osprey ]

Dump it fast please.!!!!!!

I already made the comment to get rid of the picture yesterday but it is still here..wat up wit dat!!!!!!

I removed the offending picture. I just can't believe how upset you guys get about wild fish. I didn't even catch that one stateside. I took it on the Kispiox (British Columbia, Canada)in November of last year just before the river froze over. I wasn't really impressed with the river and the drive is horrendous which is why I was asking if there were any rivers closer to home. You guys don't seem to be much help but then again you can't get past the dead nate issue. I do own a camera you know.

Whoever said that the Chiefs suck better be from the Portland area. If not bite your tongue.

SS

I don't give a gosh darn where it was taken!Its wrong!!!!I believe your just here to stir up anger and resentment among us guys.

*Nicely put Kev.

[ 04-06-2001: Message edited by: RT ]

That probably isnt even a steelhead you guys. I wouldnt be suprised if that was one of those "tripliods" from Rufus Woods. lol
Dont pay any attention to these Fish Nazis. Guys like that just want to get a reaction, and we all know were most of us stand.

CNR the nates, or find another hobby

Perhaps you should refrain from posting if you have nothing nice to say. I think I have got the message that killing nates is wrong. I still don't know why but I respect your views.

Is there any rivers with oversized hatchery fish?

SS

Read Fishing and Hunting News. If it's not in F&H News, you don't need to know about it!

Parker