[ 07-03-2001: Message edited by: andy m ]

[ 07-03-2001: Message edited by: andy m ]

Instead of getting mad and fighting, be better than that and outsmart them. I'm sure you were probably fishing the Sky, Old Chum, as I have been fishing the Ol' Sky for over 15 of my 26 years and I have never seen it so bad as it has been since it opened June 1. If somebody corks me when I'm on anchor, then I just grab one of my float rods and let my float freespool right down next to their boat. The corkers will not know that your float is right next to them until you give it a water-slicing yank and it's guaranteed to startle them which usually is enough to get the message across. Parker, Drift Boat(Mac), and I were on the Snoqualamie last winter when some guys decided to drop anchor right in the middle of where we were swinging our drift gear. I pulled the old yank the float trick right next to their boat which scared them and they pulled anchor and we had our hole back. Just my .02 on how you can get your point across without gettig violent. Peace

I think I was having a bad hair day yesterday. In fact, I know I was - because I have bad hair every day! I didn't mean to heat up potential violence at all. But having a bad hair day and seeing more of this cracker crap happening out on our rivers, it made me genuinely angry to read Ol' Chum's post. It's yet another in a much too long line of them - and I have really had it with this sheeyat! I don't let it happen without tactfully asking jerks to stop their infraction. Sometimes a yell is needed and that's all that is required a vast majority of the time. But what about a guy alone against 4 crackers or a guy that appears to be a small easily pushed around person? The unethical cracker jerks will much more willingly crap on the small guy's rights. That's what angers me the most, and needs solutions. What ideas for solutions do you guys have for this growing problem? (In addition to what's already been suggested).

RT

Why can't we get some basic "ethical fishing rules" posted at our public boat ramps? At least then, you could ask the NGSOB if he could read or not! Maybe that might be a "first step" into training the dumb ones! At least it would let some people know what fishing ethics are supposed to be! What better way to spend some of our "personal use" sticker money?

Cowlitzfisherman

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

I didn't bother to read ALL the posts on this thread, so I may be repeating what someone else might have already said.... When it comes to streamside etiquet, the Cowlitz river guides are the worst I've ever seen. If you ask them they will tell you "We hav more right to be here than you do. We are out here trying to earn a living and you're just out here for fun." So, this is the logic that we are up against. Also, it's not just the guides that are rude and inconsiderate, the Cowlitz river as a whole has it's share of "Jet sled cowboys" who think that it's fine to crowd somebody....Anybody out of a slot. I've got a sled and I rarely use it because it's just too much hassle to fish with all the guides and the other A$$holes out there. Now, when it comes to packing heat.... The problem lies the fact that when you're packing heat, how many other guys on the river do you think are armed? Probably most of them. I ALWAYS pack on the Cowlitz, but I honestly don't know what good it would do. I mean, the only way I'd ever draw is if I were drawn on first, and by that time it's too late. Maybe what we need is for the stupid Game Wardens and Sherrifs to start doing their jobs and to start making their presence known on the Cowlitz. Maybe that would help to get rid of some of the "Udesirable element" on the Cowlitz and nobdy would even feel the need to pack.

A lot of good points made by all on river ettiquete. We sure did take the long way to get to a consenus. In a perfect world if we led by example, everyone would follow. A good rule to live by is this, "What would you want you kids to learn from your actions?"

Lead by example.

Andy

p.s. On my two fishing trips to the Cowlitz this year I only met two bank fishers with sticks up their butts. I would have to say that most of the other folks I met were friendly and quite helpful.

[ 07-03-2001: Message edited by: andy m ]

Not sure about the legality of "packing" when fishing.
What few people realize is that even with a concealed carry permit, if people can see even a bulge it is the same as brandishing the weapon.
Concealed means concealed!!!!!

A bulge is a bulge, and what are you doing lookin at my bulges????? Incidental sighting of a "concealed firearm" is just that, incidental. The bulge could be a pager, a knife, a first-aid kit, or even a cell phone. Brandishing is a whole other story. You wouldn't know I was carrying even if I was in shorts and a t-shirt. Most folks don't carry a full sized pistol (1911). I like the HK USP compact, cause it is just that, compact. Never had a problem, hope I never will.

Andy

Maybe I am just patient or maybe I just wont let some moron(s) ruin my day on the river. Fishing is what I love, it is what I live for. If someone runs through my water, fishes over me, corks me etc. etc., I generally ignore it. If it is a constant problem, I just head somewhere else.

It does suck when it happens and every once n a while I met say something, especially if I think they are relative neophytes and just dont understand proper river etiquette.

To me, its just much easier to head somewhere else then to get into a war of words and all worked up and let it eat at me for days.

I think its a good idea to carry a gun when fishing, if you know what the hell your doing. I dont think anybody should carry a gun in crowded conditions were tempers flare easily and besides there are people around to help if you get jumped by four guys and lasy. In the back country you have cougar/bears and other wild critters that could make things interesting, for those situations carry.

Im used to being corked every time out on the SKy by Jet boats. Im a scrawny 19 yr old, and i have no problem telling someone to find different water, and if they have a problem and get any closer than 10 feet i'll run like hell. =)

Its all just common sense.

this reminds me of a day on the chehails a few years ago, we were anchored above the mill a few miles casting spinners and looked up and this jerk came trolling between my boat and my buddys, we told the guy we were fishing where he was trolling but he kept comming back through, so we both proceded to tilt our outboard pumps up to about a 45 degree angle and when the guy trolled thru again we started our motors and soaked the jerk and his buddy, we exchanged a few unkind words and he trolled away...

bank walker, I admire people that are honest and I think you top my list....lol...

Since so many of us like to carry,at least on occaision,I think it should be pointed out that if you use a gun in self defence you will probably be prosecuted if you can't prove your life was in danger and you had no other recourse but to shoot.
I would bet most prosecutors,and juries,in urban counties don't view firearms the same way that a lot of us do.
If you can back off from a situation,even if the other guy is in the wrong,in order to avoid a shooting then you must do that or be able to explain why you couldn't.
If you carry a firearm,as I do,avoid confrontation moreso than you would if you were unarmed.
As far as education into river ettiquette,I think the state could do a much better job with the game regulation pamphlet in educating fishermen into the proper way to do things like sharing the river and how to properly release a fish.
Thanks.

As slow as my typing is I posted another topic that mirrors this pretty close.See Cowlitz guides and bank fisherman,Animosity.
The assault I'm talking about involved a guy in his 70's being assaulted by a guide and some of his clients.
The guy was roughed up pretty bad.So don't tell me you should'nt be packing when fishing.If people will gang up on an old man and thourally thrash them,then nobody is safe.
What it boils down to is the lack of enforcement on the river.The law needs to do their job.
As many people that are on the river when the silvers are in,there are bound to be confrontations.From what I've seen most are started by the sleds that feel they own the river.
I too have heard guides say they are out here to make a living so they will do whatever it takes to put fish in the boat.Screw the bank maggots.
Well they are making a living off the publics resources,so they should have a little more respect for the public.
Also bank access is horrible on the Cowlitz.Especially when what little room we do legally have is blocked off by such people as those that own the Wallace rock pit.Thus it makes the crowding that much worse.
Our D.F.W. needs to secure more access for us,and alleviate some crowding.And we need to respect what we have.Pack out our friggin garbage.How can we blame private landowners closing down their property when they have to walk through human crap and pick up garbage everyday.

The best solution suggestion I've seen so far posted is by Cowfish (Bob Reid) to have proper etiquette rules posted on a sign by all boats ramps. I will add they should also be posted at popular bank areas, such as at the Begginner's Hole on the Kalama and Blue Creek/Barrier Dam on the Cowlitz. The states should have done this long ago! A set of fair and ethical rules of acceptable behavior and conflict resolution criteria can be drawn up by a committee of anglers from this &/or other fishing websites and a consensus set of rules be forewith. They should be kept to the high priority issues, so as not to be too long - which could keep some guys from wanting to read them. They need to carry some substance in the form of "If enough complaints are issued about an individual or group of people, including guides who deserve no special privilages, then steps will be taken to remove the chronic offenders from river privilages". And these signs need to be big enough and placed in a proper place so they can't be missed. ...

I will also suggest, as I did during the Wind River cleanup event, that large signs need to be placed, along with a large garbage can chained to a tree or post, at all major trail heads to popular bankfishing areas and at boat ramps that clearly state "Do not litter. Bring your trash back out with you and deposit it in the garbage can. Anyone caught littering by random surveilance will be cited and fined heavily. Further infractions will lead to loss of fishing privilages for an extended period of time". Again, make the signs big enough and properly placed. This relatively simple, cost effective, strategy will go a long ways in cleaning up our rivers of both jerks and trash. What will it take to get this simple solution done? Who knows the proper state reps and F&G Dept. personel to send these proposals too?

(I will post this to a separate "Sign" thread).

RT