What is the deal on the Skokomish? The God D@mned Indians are netting the hell out of everything! I asked one of the guys I was fishing with what the net schedual was.... He said "Noon Sunday until noon Thursday" Is that true? Can anybody substantiate that? I mean, that seems a bit extreme. I think it was Noon Sunday until Noon Wed. last year. Did they really get another day? Also, The indians aren't even waiting until noon on Sunday to put their nets in. I was there at 10:00 AM on sunday and the nets were everywhere! As if that isn't bad enough, the indians then drift their boat right in front of all the fishermen and start slapping the water with their oars so that they cahse all of the fish into the nets! I looked into turning the indians in for not "Playing by the rules" and I was told that there was essentially no accountabillity to speak of.... In other words, there is nothing that can be done to enforce the rules where the indians are concerned! That absolutely rips me! I know one thing for sure. I'm not going to bother with weather the fish I catch are fair hooked or not. I'll keep everything! If this is a free for all then we should all get a slice of the pie! I won't be turning in anybody for snagging either! Snag away, you're safe with me! What the point in even having the rules? Lets just get it over with and kill every God D@mned fish in the state, then we can all take up golf! Man, those indians Piss me off!

Don't stoop down, Zo. What the tribe does out there is a disgrace, but that's no reason to join them. If you join them in the debacle, then you can't criticize them without being a hypocrite.

Wait until the 12-year old tribal members show up with their trout poles, surf reels, 40-lb test, and a treble with lead tied below it and start dragging fish up backwards onto the beach. Now ask yourself, "Do I want to be part of THIS?" I'm sure you'll do the right thing.

I'm going to take some video footage, and send it to the Skok Tribal Council and ask them if THIS is the kind of thing the Skok Tribe endorses, and if the intend on addressing the problem. Then I'm going to do the same thing on the Satsop, Keenedy Creek, the Quilcene, and McAllister creek and then send the WDFW THAT footage and ask them the same thing. We'll see if anything happens on EITHER side before I start pointing fingers.

i know how you feel zozo, last year fishin on the nisqually the indians would run there boats right up the bank and then the next and then go up river throw there net out in front of people who are fishing and then net up all the fish as they floated on down the river.... ethical, i believe not, but then again i will be fishing with a lil heat of my own and if i have a prob i will deal with it,only in self defense ofcourse, i know a few indians from the nezperce tribe who are jus as bad as the ones over here, but they tend to take things beyond, say like shoot 70 sum deer, loads of elk, jus to sell.. **berkley boy**

Dan let me know when you do your videoing I'll be there right next to ya!! Things have to change here there is a big NATIVE problem (and thats native indian).It all comes down to what they are let do!

50%

Yeah right

Lets all claim our Indian heritage and clean house TM says

TM,

It would be nice to have a security force (that's you!) with me. I'm sure showing up with a camera at any of the places I mentioned wouldn't make you a popular guy, but if the tribes and the WDFW aren't interested in enforcement, then maybe somebody else would be interested.......where's that Duane Puhlman investigative reporter guy when you need him?

Dan S. You know, if videotaping and "Covert Action" is how you want to handle this whole thing, then fine! I'll salute you if you actually accomplish anything. As for myself, I'm through with the whole thought that if we stick together we will make a difference. We don't mean Jack $hit to anybody! Take the video footage and give it to the Skokomish Tribal council..... They will only laugh at it! They don't care! They don't care about fish! They don't care about conservation! They certainly don't care about some piddily a$$ video tape of a bunch of future welfare recipiants earning a little Meth money by snagging salmon! I'm all fought out! I wish you all the luck in the World in your crusade to stop the injustices that are going on where the Tribal fisheries are concerned, but you are fighting for a lost cause. You are white, they are not. Because of that fact, you can't win. End of story.

ZoZo "covert action" your just the type ye are looking for

ZoZo,

You may be right. But I'm not going to let myself go down that path. First you keep a fouled fish on the Skok, then you keep an unclipped silver, and before you know it you're all strung out fishing the fish ladder at Bingham creek!

Believe me, after what I've seen out on the Skok over the last 20 years and especially the last 10, I have little faith anything will get done. But you can't stop trying.........

Please don't stop trying you are getting SO much acomplished!!!!!!
The way I see it if you keep going like you are we all should see triple fish days in a few years

Sorry about that last post, guys. I'd had a few too many drinks when I posted last night.... I'm sure you all understand. However, I do feel that we as sportsmen are fighting a losing battle on this one. I'd give anything to be wrong on this, but I don't think that I am. Also, I meant what I said about the Tribal Council not caring what happens on the River. I really don't think that they care one bit what their tribal members are doing, as long as they get a cut of the egg money

Dan -

Let me know when the movie will be filmed and what the setting will be. I'll bring the sound boom.

The main reason we are pissed on is because we too easily give up, don't ever do anything besides *****, and every public fishing spot is littered, etc. If people actually got their asses up, things that were normally slid under the rug, would eventually have to be acknowledged.

And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, is why I seek your support for candacy to the office of.....

Just a side note guys
I noticed when I walked out monday that someone had taken a pair of wire cutters and cut a strand of the property owners fence next to the bridge. (I am assuming to get over easier)We have to remember that this access is private property and treat it as such Don't leave trash and pick up what you take in or we will lose this access through the field. A friend of mine talked to the property owner last year and he stated he would not post it if we keep it clean.
It might be wise for whoever cut the fence to repair it, I'm sure if you go up to the farm the property owner will give you what you need to fix it.
just a warning Ramprat

ZoZo, you're not going to like this, but I think we need to clean up "our" side of the river first. It's sickining to see how many white snaggers there are. What would you guess 50%. I called the game dept and got the excuse that there were only 3 wardens for mason county. If they would spend 4 hours a week out there they would have most people looking over their shoulder. I would like to find a snaggers car and let the air out of his tires and put a big sign on his car that said "snagger go home". Might get the point across.

I don't know why Bill keeps the access open. The wire that was cut was a foot off the ground. No reason to cut it at all. I grew up in the valley and on the river. Used to be just a few of us that fished it. Its a shame what it's turned into.

I'm going to keep on the game dept and see if I can't get some results. If you see snagging going on call 1.800.477.6224 poaching hotline. If during business hours call 360.902.2200 maybe if we hammer the receptionst enough day in and day out she might get tired of it and call someone.

Fishhead5

I doubtit. It's truly a shame thet it even requires people calling the Game Department to get them to do their jobs to begin with. As far as cutting fenches is concerned, that's a bunch of crap! I really hate to see people $hitting all over the Land Owners like that. The whole "Fishermen vs Land owners" thing is a direct result of people going out and pulling this kind of $hit! As far as the snagging goes.... If you read my post about snagging then you know my opinions on the subject. The Snagging is especially bad on the Skokomish. That being said, I cannot blame people for feeling the urge to resort to such practices. Look at the dynamic we have on the Skokomish.... There are a lot of people, and a lot of them are snagging.... And getting away with it! Then you've got a bunch of these little Skokomish Indian Kids snagging the $hit out of the fish with 9/0 triple hooks and surf rods, then turning around and selling the eggs to whoever wants to buy them... If that isn't bad enough, just when you finally manage to find a spot away from all of the madness, a bunch of Skokes come down river in a boat and litterally throw their nets right on top of where you are fishing! If you get mad and say something about it, they all start laughing at you! If you go down to the river on a non-netting day and happen to see nets in the water, well that's just too bad, because there is absolutely nothing that you can do about it! Nothing! If you turn the Indians in to the Game Wardens, they just shake their heads and tell you that they are powerless to stop the Indians from doing whatever they want. I know it's not right to purposely snag fish, it's not even real fishing, but at the same time it is totally understandable why people get disgruntled and resort to these tactics. The Skokomish Tribal Fishermen are among the poorest excuses for humans that I have ever seen. They are rude, inconsiderate, freeloaders who look to exploit the Skokomish runs just because they can get away with it and it makes me sick! They seem to go down to the river with the sole intention of stirring up hate and discontent with the real fishermen who are trying to do things right. I have a few other opinions about what I'd like to do to some of those netters, but if I use this forum as a platform to state those opinions,some might take offense and then Big Bob will have to shut the topic down, so just use your imagination. Man! I'm genuinely upset! Mostly because I know that this is a no win battle.

I was down at the skok the day after opening day and I hooked into what I thought was a humpy and as I was playing the fish one of the indians decided it would be funny to snag the fish as it swam by him.

Well I got the fish on shore and cut his line. He then proceed to tell me to give him his riggin back. It is amazing how fast a persons attituted will change when he thinks the odds are in his favor. I told him no and he looked over at his buddies and then he asked to me give it back or else.

I took the treble hook and pitched it into the woods. He said now your going to get it. And I just replied in a nice calm voice Would you Like me to carve out your skull. he gave me a funny look and then he realize what I was talkin about when he looked down and saw me tappin on the side of my waders. then he decied to backed off.

Now I dont carry a gun when I am fishing but if thats what it is going to take to keep the indians at bay I just might
Dances out

Danceswithfish: I do carry a gun when fishing. Those Skokomish Indians and the way they behave when they are surrounded by their buddies is a large part of why I actually need the need to carry a gun with me. There are other reasons also, but with Some of the arguements I've gotten into with Tribal Members down there, I think it's a good idea to have a little insurance with me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that a pistol is the answer to the problems on the Skokomish. I'm just saying that with the way I mouth off to the Tribal Fishermen and how I call Bull**** on them when they throw their nets right on top of me..... Well, it's just a matter of time before five or six of them decide that they are going to teach me a lesson, and when that happens, I'm going to need something to "Equalize" the situation.

Actually, the videotaping idea might not be so bad.... I've had a few conversations with prominent tribal people about the Skokomish River, and they have denied knowledge of wrong-doing by their people. It may be a case of the head not knowing what the hand is doing.
The other comment I've heard is that the snagging is being done by white fishers. All true?? Probably not. But if the tribal leaders dont know whats going on on the river, they cant do anything about it. On the other hand, if they do, and still choose to do nothing about it, then there is recourse.
The Skok people profess to want to get along with the whites, at least the locals with vested interests in the region: property owners, etc. The belligerent attitudes most probably come from the same individuals who are involved with other illegal activities originating on the reservation, and may not always cave in to a bluff.
The fence cutting near the bridge can screw us all. The property owner there has been gracious enough for years to allow passage to the riverbank. By law, he's not required to, so if anyone sees that kind of stuff going on, do something about it. Its in everyone's best interest.
As far as the tribal bashing, well, consider the fact that their ancestors lived in this territory for approximately 12,000 years before you whites came here. 157 years ago some people came to them and signed treaties to protect lives; mostly white.
Those treaties were violated nearly every day by the whites, whenever it suited them, and have only been supported by the government for the last 27 years or so. Is there some over-reaction going on? Sure. But according to the treaties, you, as a white, are no more entitled to those fish than the tribes. But no less, either.
Treaty language say: "In common with...".

The problem we have today is not with the tribes, so far as methods are concerned, but with the Liberal US Government policies as interpreted and managed by agencies like NMFS, and their method of allocations of fishery harvests.
Drop the attitudes, and use your powers of reason. Otherwise you're not that well evolved from your ancestors un the jungle.
Someone on this website posted the slogan: United we stand, divided we beg. This just might be one of the issues where that's appropriate.

Dan, Kevin, Doug, and HH - good posts! Video camera filming, along with some protection (including a gun for a just in case scenario) CAN do something. If these improper actions by Indian netters and white snaggers are filmed many times and copies given to news media, appropriate authorities, and tribal councils - and they each know the other entities are getting copies - things to avert this crap will start to happen; in my opinion. At the very least the culprits on both sides will begin to get concerned about strong building aversion to what they are doing, with good chances they will at least back off some; or in some cases a lot. But this will take effort to film and inform by lots of us sportsmen - not just one or two incidences. A bunch of video tape copies sitting on the right desks along with signed wittness complaints will get the attention! I don't think the Skok tribal netters, or other tribes, really want another violent uprising caused by their actions. AND PLEASE STOP WITH FRIGGIN HISTORY LESSONS ABOUT WHAT SOMEBODY ELSE'S ANCESTORS DID A HUNDRED AND FIFTY YEARS AGO!!!!! I don't care how long their ancestors lived around here. Those natives and white ancestors are dead and long gone - and in reality don't have crap to do with today! The current laws and situation are what counts today!!! ...

'Fly and I motored up the 'grass strung' zipper yesterday, with his weed cutting MinnKota, and saw only 1 chinook while fishing and then looking in all the best gin clear holes afterward. When we came back down an Indian gillnetter was up the small stream in his boat stretching a second net across the river. After we passed by Joe had to pull up the motor and coast across the lower net because there was no way to get by; it was bank to bank. We took several still pics of the nets with Joe's cam. Unfortunatley, Joe lives nearby and knows many of the Nisqually tribe members - and his boat is quite recognizable. I think if he sent in those pics with a signed complaint he could become a target to some degree? I do hope he posts them on fishing websites. If that wasn't ugly enough, get this! At the take out there was a low life inbred 'blue eyed' white creep, that after talking to us and figuring we were 'cool' and not cops, started bragging that he is friends with some of the 'Nastys' and he poaches fish with their gillnets and sells eggs! He proudly told us he got out from a 3 year prison sentence a while back. Definitely not the brightest gem in the rock pile! Shouldn't be long before he's back in. He also said his Indian pal setting out the nets we passed had also done 2 years in prison. We didn't ask why for either of them - we just stood their looking real impresed with them . Geez, at a couple of points I think my eyeballs rolled clear above my eye sockets . These type of low life jerks make a great case for propsective parents to have to pass a parenting class and get a license to have sex! At least to have kids!!!

RT

not the tribe i'd want to mess with. watch your selt.

Talked to Paul Hunter yesterday. He has posted part of their land. If the garbage and fence cutting doesn't stop he'll post the rest.

Fishndude

[ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: Fishndude ]