What is the deal on the Skokomish? The God D@mned Indians are netting the hell out of everything! I asked one of the guys I was fishing with what the net schedual was.... He said "Noon Sunday until noon Thursday" Is that true? Can anybody substantiate that? I mean, that seems a bit extreme. I think it was Noon Sunday until Noon Wed. last year. Did they really get another day? Also, The indians aren't even waiting until noon on Sunday to put their nets in. I was there at 10:00 AM on sunday and the nets were everywhere! As if that isn't bad enough, the indians then drift their boat right in front of all the fishermen and start slapping the water with their oars so that they cahse all of the fish into the nets! I looked into turning the indians in for not "Playing by the rules" and I was told that there was essentially no accountabillity to speak of.... In other words, there is nothing that can be done to enforce the rules where the indians are concerned! That absolutely rips me! I know one thing for sure. I'm not going to bother with weather the fish I catch are fair hooked or not. I'll keep everything! If this is a free for all then we should all get a slice of the pie! I won't be turning in anybody for snagging either! Snag away, you're safe with me! What the point in even having the rules? Lets just get it over with and kill every God D@mned fish in the state, then we can all take up golf! Man, those indians Piss me off!

Don't stoop down, Zo. What the tribe does out there is a disgrace, but that's no reason to join them. If you join them in the debacle, then you can't criticize them without being a hypocrite.

Wait until the 12-year old tribal members show up with their trout poles, surf reels, 40-lb test, and a treble with lead tied below it and start dragging fish up backwards onto the beach. Now ask yourself, "Do I want to be part of THIS?" I'm sure you'll do the right thing.

I'm going to take some video footage, and send it to the Skok Tribal Council and ask them if THIS is the kind of thing the Skok Tribe endorses, and if the intend on addressing the problem. Then I'm going to do the same thing on the Satsop, Keenedy Creek, the Quilcene, and McAllister creek and then send the WDFW THAT footage and ask them the same thing. We'll see if anything happens on EITHER side before I start pointing fingers.

i know how you feel zozo, last year fishin on the nisqually the indians would run there boats right up the bank and then the next and then go up river throw there net out in front of people who are fishing and then net up all the fish as they floated on down the river.... ethical, i believe not, but then again i will be fishing with a lil heat of my own and if i have a prob i will deal with it,only in self defense ofcourse, i know a few indians from the nezperce tribe who are jus as bad as the ones over here, but they tend to take things beyond, say like shoot 70 sum deer, loads of elk, jus to sell.. **berkley boy**

Dan let me know when you do your videoing I'll be there right next to ya!! Things have to change here there is a big NATIVE problem (and thats native indian).It all comes down to what they are let do!

50%

Yeah right

Lets all claim our Indian heritage and clean house TM says

TM,

It would be nice to have a security force (that's you!) with me. I'm sure showing up with a camera at any of the places I mentioned wouldn't make you a popular guy, but if the tribes and the WDFW aren't interested in enforcement, then maybe somebody else would be interested.......where's that Duane Puhlman investigative reporter guy when you need him?

Dan S. You know, if videotaping and "Covert Action" is how you want to handle this whole thing, then fine! I'll salute you if you actually accomplish anything. As for myself, I'm through with the whole thought that if we stick together we will make a difference. We don't mean Jack $hit to anybody! Take the video footage and give it to the Skokomish Tribal council..... They will only laugh at it! They don't care! They don't care about fish! They don't care about conservation! They certainly don't care about some piddily a$$ video tape of a bunch of future welfare recipiants earning a little Meth money by snagging salmon! I'm all fought out! I wish you all the luck in the World in your crusade to stop the injustices that are going on where the Tribal fisheries are concerned, but you are fighting for a lost cause. You are white, they are not. Because of that fact, you can't win. End of story.

ZoZo "covert action" your just the type ye are looking for

ZoZo,

You may be right. But I'm not going to let myself go down that path. First you keep a fouled fish on the Skok, then you keep an unclipped silver, and before you know it you're all strung out fishing the fish ladder at Bingham creek!

Believe me, after what I've seen out on the Skok over the last 20 years and especially the last 10, I have little faith anything will get done. But you can't stop trying.........

Please don't stop trying you are getting SO much acomplished!!!!!!
The way I see it if you keep going like you are we all should see triple fish days in a few years

Sorry about that last post, guys. I'd had a few too many drinks when I posted last night.... I'm sure you all understand. However, I do feel that we as sportsmen are fighting a losing battle on this one. I'd give anything to be wrong on this, but I don't think that I am. Also, I meant what I said about the Tribal Council not caring what happens on the River. I really don't think that they care one bit what their tribal members are doing, as long as they get a cut of the egg money

Dan -

Let me know when the movie will be filmed and what the setting will be. I'll bring the sound boom.

The main reason we are pissed on is because we too easily give up, don't ever do anything besides *****, and every public fishing spot is littered, etc. If people actually got their asses up, things that were normally slid under the rug, would eventually have to be acknowledged.

And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, is why I seek your support for candacy to the office of.....

Just a side note guys
I noticed when I walked out monday that someone had taken a pair of wire cutters and cut a strand of the property owners fence next to the bridge. (I am assuming to get over easier)We have to remember that this access is private property and treat it as such Don't leave trash and pick up what you take in or we will lose this access through the field. A friend of mine talked to the property owner last year and he stated he would not post it if we keep it clean.
It might be wise for whoever cut the fence to repair it, I'm sure if you go up to the farm the property owner will give you what you need to fix it.
just a warning Ramprat

ZoZo, you're not going to like this, but I think we need to clean up "our" side of the river first. It's sickining to see how many white snaggers there are. What would you guess 50%. I called the game dept and got the excuse that there were only 3 wardens for mason county. If they would spend 4 hours a week out there they would have most people looking over their shoulder. I would like to find a snaggers car and let the air out of his tires and put a big sign on his car that said "snagger go home". Might get the point across.

I don't know why Bill keeps the access open. The wire that was cut was a foot off the ground. No reason to cut it at all. I grew up in the valley and on the river. Used to be just a few of us that fished it. Its a shame what it's turned into.

I'm going to keep on the game dept and see if I can't get some results. If you see snagging going on call 1.800.477.6224 poaching hotline. If during business hours call 360.902.2200 maybe if we hammer the receptionst enough day in and day out she might get tired of it and call someone.

Fishhead5

I doubtit. It's truly a shame thet it even requires people calling the Game Department to get them to do their jobs to begin with. As far as cutting fenches is concerned, that's a bunch of crap! I really hate to see people $hitting all over the Land Owners like that. The whole "Fishermen vs Land owners" thing is a direct result of people going out and pulling this kind of $hit! As far as the snagging goes.... If you read my post about snagging then you know my opinions on the subject. The Snagging is especially bad on the Skokomish. That being said, I cannot blame people for feeling the urge to resort to such practices. Look at the dynamic we have on the Skokomish.... There are a lot of people, and a lot of them are snagging.... And getting away with it! Then you've got a bunch of these little Skokomish Indian Kids snagging the $hit out of the fish with 9/0 triple hooks and surf rods, then turning around and selling the eggs to whoever wants to buy them... If that isn't bad enough, just when you finally manage to find a spot away from all of the madness, a bunch of Skokes come down river in a boat and litterally throw their nets right on top of where you are fishing! If you get mad and say something about it, they all start laughing at you! If you go down to the river on a non-netting day and happen to see nets in the water, well that's just too bad, because there is absolutely nothing that you can do about it! Nothing! If you turn the Indians in to the Game Wardens, they just shake their heads and tell you that they are powerless to stop the Indians from doing whatever they want. I know it's not right to purposely snag fish, it's not even real fishing, but at the same time it is totally understandable why people get disgruntled and resort to these tactics. The Skokomish Tribal Fishermen are among the poorest excuses for humans that I have ever seen. They are rude, inconsiderate, freeloaders who look to exploit the Skokomish runs just because they can get away with it and it makes me sick! They seem to go down to the river with the sole intention of stirring up hate and discontent with the real fishermen who are trying to do things right. I have a few other opinions about what I'd like to do to some of those netters, but if I use this forum as a platform to state those opinions,some might take offense and then Big Bob will have to shut the topic down, so just use your imagination. Man! I'm genuinely upset! Mostly because I know that this is a no win battle.

I was down at the skok the day after opening day and I hooked into what I thought was a humpy and as I was playing the fish one of the indians decided it would be funny to snag the fish as it swam by him.

Well I got the fish on shore and cut his line. He then proceed to tell me to give him his riggin back. It is amazing how fast a persons attituted will change when he thinks the odds are in his favor. I told him no and he looked over at his buddies and then he asked to me give it back or else.

I took the treble hook and pitched it into the woods. He said now your going to get it. And I just replied in a nice calm voice Would you Like me to carve out your skull. he gave me a funny look and then he realize what I was talkin about when he looked down and saw me tappin on the side of my waders. then he decied to backed off.

Now I dont carry a gun when I am fishing but if thats what it is going to take to keep the indians at bay I just might
Dances out

Danceswithfish: I do carry a gun when fishing. Those Skokomish Indians and the way they behave when they are surrounded by their buddies is a large part of why I actually need the need to carry a gun with me. There are other reasons also, but with Some of the arguements I've gotten into with Tribal Members down there, I think it's a good idea to have a little insurance with me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that a pistol is the answer to the problems on the Skokomish. I'm just saying that with the way I mouth off to the Tribal Fishermen and how I call Bull**** on them when they throw their nets right on top of me..... Well, it's just a matter of time before five or six of them decide that they are going to teach me a lesson, and when that happens, I'm going to need something to "Equalize" the situation.

Actually, the videotaping idea might not be so bad.... I've had a few conversations with prominent tribal people about the Skokomish River, and they have denied knowledge of wrong-doing by their people. It may be a case of the head not knowing what the hand is doing.
The other comment I've heard is that the snagging is being done by white fishers. All true?? Probably not. But if the tribal leaders dont know whats going on on the river, they cant do anything about it. On the other hand, if they do, and still choose to do nothing about it, then there is recourse.
The Skok people profess to want to get along with the whites, at least the locals with vested interests in the region: property owners, etc. The belligerent attitudes most probably come from the same individuals who are involved with other illegal activities originating on the reservation, and may not always cave in to a bluff.
The fence cutting near the bridge can screw us all. The property owner there has been gracious enough for years to allow passage to the riverbank. By law, he's not required to, so if anyone sees that kind of stuff going on, do something about it. Its in everyone's best interest.
As far as the tribal bashing, well, consider the fact that their ancestors lived in this territory for approximately 12,000 years before you whites came here. 157 years ago some people came to them and signed treaties to protect lives; mostly white.
Those treaties were violated nearly every day by the whites, whenever it suited them, and have only been supported by the government for the last 27 years or so. Is there some over-reaction going on? Sure. But according to the treaties, you, as a white, are no more entitled to those fish than the tribes. But no less, either.
Treaty language say: "In common with...".

The problem we have today is not with the tribes, so far as methods are concerned, but with the Liberal US Government policies as interpreted and managed by agencies like NMFS, and their method of allocations of fishery harvests.
Drop the attitudes, and use your powers of reason. Otherwise you're not that well evolved from your ancestors un the jungle.
Someone on this website posted the slogan: United we stand, divided we beg. This just might be one of the issues where that's appropriate.

Dan, Kevin, Doug, and HH - good posts! Video camera filming, along with some protection (including a gun for a just in case scenario) CAN do something. If these improper actions by Indian netters and white snaggers are filmed many times and copies given to news media, appropriate authorities, and tribal councils - and they each know the other entities are getting copies - things to avert this crap will start to happen; in my opinion. At the very least the culprits on both sides will begin to get concerned about strong building aversion to what they are doing, with good chances they will at least back off some; or in some cases a lot. But this will take effort to film and inform by lots of us sportsmen - not just one or two incidences. A bunch of video tape copies sitting on the right desks along with signed wittness complaints will get the attention! I don't think the Skok tribal netters, or other tribes, really want another violent uprising caused by their actions. AND PLEASE STOP WITH FRIGGIN HISTORY LESSONS ABOUT WHAT SOMEBODY ELSE'S ANCESTORS DID A HUNDRED AND FIFTY YEARS AGO!!!!! I don't care how long their ancestors lived around here. Those natives and white ancestors are dead and long gone - and in reality don't have crap to do with today! The current laws and situation are what counts today!!! ...

'Fly and I motored up the 'grass strung' zipper yesterday, with his weed cutting MinnKota, and saw only 1 chinook while fishing and then looking in all the best gin clear holes afterward. When we came back down an Indian gillnetter was up the small stream in his boat stretching a second net across the river. After we passed by Joe had to pull up the motor and coast across the lower net because there was no way to get by; it was bank to bank. We took several still pics of the nets with Joe's cam. Unfortunatley, Joe lives nearby and knows many of the Nisqually tribe members - and his boat is quite recognizable. I think if he sent in those pics with a signed complaint he could become a target to some degree? I do hope he posts them on fishing websites. If that wasn't ugly enough, get this! At the take out there was a low life inbred 'blue eyed' white creep, that after talking to us and figuring we were 'cool' and not cops, started bragging that he is friends with some of the 'Nastys' and he poaches fish with their gillnets and sells eggs! He proudly told us he got out from a 3 year prison sentence a while back. Definitely not the brightest gem in the rock pile! Shouldn't be long before he's back in. He also said his Indian pal setting out the nets we passed had also done 2 years in prison. We didn't ask why for either of them - we just stood their looking real impresed with them . Geez, at a couple of points I think my eyeballs rolled clear above my eye sockets . These type of low life jerks make a great case for propsective parents to have to pass a parenting class and get a license to have sex! At least to have kids!!!

RT

not the tribe i'd want to mess with. watch your selt.

Talked to Paul Hunter yesterday. He has posted part of their land. If the garbage and fence cutting doesn't stop he'll post the rest.

Fishndude

[ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: Fishndude ]

Come on guys, a pistol is *never* the answer! Don't be so idiotic and stupid!

Now, my "Social Shotgun", that's a whole different ballgame!

You'd be surprised how friendly and respectful people are when you've got the "Social Shotgun" slung across your back!

Nothing says love like 5 3" 12 ga. sabot slugs!

"It will drop a Gizzyly in it's tracks at 50 yards, whaddya think it's going to do to you?"

The "Social Shotgun". Never leave home without it!

Parker

now parker
What is the difference between carring a shot gun or a pistol. Eirhter of them can get you out of a tight sitution espicaly when the odds are not in your favor.

Now I am not saying that a pistol is better then a shotgun but come on them things get heavy during a full day of fishing I would just rather stick to the old pistol with blistick(sp) tips or hollow points.

On the other hand is it not redicouls that we have to carry firearms to protect our selfs when we are susposed to be doing some thing that everyone is able to enjoy.

Well I for one am getting sick and tired of always having to look over my shourld when ever I am fishing on the skok just to make sure some indians are not getting ready to jump me for fishing their river.

I know I am not perfect by a long shot but the natives need to learn that if they dish it out they better damn well beable to take it back ant least 10 fold

Well I will stop yammering I have to go to bed anyways big day of marlin fishing tomorrow.

Dances out

This is B..S..if people on both sides of the ethnic line dont calm down there will be bloodshed on the Skok soon. Maybe it has to happen to bring about the changes which need to occur. But I'd rather be a live fisherman than a martyr for any cause.
This comes back to why I quit Golf, (aside from the fact my swing still sucks,)I've actually witnessed gang related gunplay on the fairway in Northern Ca.
I thought fishing might be more pastoral... I guess I was wrong.

Headhunter: As fish runs dwindle, and as more and more access area disappears, anglers are finding themselves in much more crowded and challenging situations. Throw in the mayham that is currently taking place on the Skokomish River and the mounting tensions between Tribal and Non-Tribal Fishermen, and you have a recipe for disaster. I totally agree with you on one point.... There will be bloodshed on the Skokomish soon. Maybe not this year, but if things continue the way they are, it's only a matter of time before something bad happens. I know that I have been very critical of the Tribes and their harvest practices, and I'll continue to criticize Tribal harvest practices until something is done to police them. That being said, it is not Tribal Members in general that I have a problem with. I have a problem with the ones who are so rude and inconsiderate that they will go out of their way to screw a guy out of a day of enjoyable fishing. The ones who purposely throw their nets out two feet from where you are trying to fish, the A$$holes who where useing Seal Bombs last Sunday night on the Skokomish as a means of chasing fish into the nets.... That is a bunch of crap and has no place in any type of fishery, Tribal or otherwise. I have fished around Skokomish Tribal Members who were very courteous and even went out of their way to not interfer with the Sport Fishermen. However, these individuals are the exception rather than the rule. Most of the Skokomish Tribal Fishermen I have encountered were rude, inconsiderate, degenerates. You are right, something does have to change, but how? Sport Fishermen have given up everything they have to give. The Tribes are already getting the Lions Share, so how can the Sport Fishermen give anything more than what we've already given? The fact of the matter is that the ball is in the Tribes' court. It is time for the Tribes to do a little giving for a change. It is time for the Tribes to step up and do what is right. Get those God D@mned nets out of the rivers and start to do what is nesessary to save the fish runs! I know that if I were a member of a Tribe whose heritage revolved around Salmon and Steelhead, I'd feel a bond with those fish, so much so that it would simply kill me to see my own people sh!tting all over the very resource that sustained us for so many years. It would sicken me to call myself a Skokomish Tribal Member.

guys,there are lots of fish this year,i certainly wouldn't go to the skok to fish,especially if you have to pack a gun to feel safe.it has been a snag fishery for the last 20 years.lots of white and tribal people go there and do nothing but snag salmon.it is no place for a fisherman.we all know the skok tribe are the worst abusers of the system in the state,and there is little or no enforcement to stop them.i don't think any of you should put your life on the line to go there and try to legally catch a salmon in that kind of environment.i went to the skok about 10 years ago,it took me about 10 minutes to see what was going on,got in my pickup and never went back.there are too many rivers to fish in wa.state to fish, to mess with that area in my opinion. scott

The hood Canal is a perfect example of what abuse of gill netting can do to a rivers health. All the rivers on the Canal suported diverse healthy runs of fish up untill the mid 70's both steelhead and salmon. Now all you can get is a bunch of Chum and Hatchery Skok kings. My dad grew up fishing the Dosie and the both the Big Quil and Little Quil for Steelies and did real well throught the 60's and part of the 70's. As soon as the Bolt decision passed the fish quickly disipeard over just a few years. Ive seen pictures from the 20's of my late great uncle with bunches of teener steelies from the Duckabush. Thoose days were long gone before my time.

After having read all of the post's and threads concerning the situation on the Skokomish River I have come to one conclusion. There are a lot of folks who would rather use force to get their point across, this is (my river I will fish anyway I see fit) (this is my river and I won't let it go down the drain so I will do what I deem fit to keep it safe).
Guys, it's not your river, its not their river! It is just a river with some fish in it! Some day they may be all gone but at the expense of a human life? Is it really worth it?
Some of you should read over the thread and just listen to the hatred, greed and predjuice that eminates from your words! You would do well to lead by example! If this is the example that you bring to the river when you fish then I want no part of your company or your precious fish!
And yes I do fish the Skokomish and I do release any fish I may inadvertantly snag, yes, I do pick up litter anytime I fish any river. I even fixed the fence that was cut on private property, not that it was a perfect job, however it may have kept the cows in and saved someone's life if the cows got out. Those critters make a mess at 40mph. I even talked to the land owner at Hunters and asked if there was anything I could to do to make amends for the poor showing that my fellow fishermen were displaying to his land. I ended up picking up litter.
What I'm getting at is lead by the best example YOU can give and speak!
Anything less than that won't make much of an impression on anyone, much less make a positive change.

SkaGuy
I would like to thank you for fixing the fence too. That was a very kind jesture.

I have fished the skok for aslong as I can remember and only in the last few years has it begun to get really bad.(in my opinion) Before the skok reopened to kings about three or four years ago no one ever fished there. my dad used to take me down there to go trout fishing by hunters when the kings were running and we would watch hunders pass by.

Now when the river first reopened there was about a three week period where it was just a few local fisherman on the river fishing for the kings and then the News Tribune published "Skok Kings in and its red hott." after that the snaggers showed up and the fun was over.
For the most part the snaggers that are down on the skok are from seattle or tocoma(sp) Now I am not saying that all of the people down there are but most. I like to fish that river I grew up on it. Its almost like a second home to me and I hate to see it being destroyed(sp) by snaggers of any race.
I tend to be a smart ass on the river and my dad can atest to that and I have a tendancy to say things to the people who are snagging and most of the time they try to lie there way out of it but it is really hard when you say some thing like "Damn your gettin Bites every cast, man there must be a ton of fish in there" or "Wow All those hook sets and not a damn thing? you might want to let them bite instead of trying to tail hook them" Yea I do get alot of dirty looks but they usualy stop or just leave and then its back to me and the river and a few natives.

Some people on the skok think that they own the river and they are not even indians Ex.
Last year my dad and a few friends and I were out fishing and it was getting late in the morning. My dad had already caught his limit and I was jsut a fish shy so I decied to stay alittle longer well we were fishing a a hole that was jam packed with people and some smart A$$ from another hole up above saw my dad leaving and so he proceed to walk down.
This guy was about 6'1 and alot ugly'r then RT if you can picture that and he had worst taste in clothing then RT anyways back to my story
As he was doing so my dad was nice and polite and told him it was not a good idea to go down there because of what he was wearing. The guy then asked what was wrong with his clothing and my dad told him it was to bright and that he would spook all the fish. then man then told him he was wearing the same type of clothing everyone else was and my dad said everyone is wearing dark green to black down there and your wearing kackie those colors dont seem to be anything alike.
Well the guy was getting alittle hot by then and he said something esle to my dad and he kinda got alittle excited he told the out of towner that "Its A$$holes like you who ruin the river for every one else and I am leaving!" the guy said its a good thing your leaving and my dad stopped dead in his tracks droped his gear turned around and asked "WHAT" the man then started to walk off.
Well after my dad was out of sight the out of towner started to walk back down to where I was fishin and he was about to try to wiggle down in by me and there was about a three foot gap between me and the guys on either side. I turned around and asked him if he wanted a fish hook in his ear. He gave me a dumb look like you wouldnt dare and then he started to walk towards me again so I whipped my big glob of eggos by his head. I think he got the point after that cuz he walked down the river about a 100 yards or so and started to snag again. These are the kind of people who really get me going on the skok now dont get me wrong if your an out of towner and you are fishing legaly I have no problem with you its just those people who snag that get my blood flowin.

When you combined the tribe in with all that the river becomes a war zone. Some of the tribal members(sp) have the mentalty(sp) that its their river and they can do what ever they please when ever they please and if some one gets in their way then there is going to be hell to pay.

Ex. I was fishing for kings last year when a bunch of little kids started to toss rocks right where I was fishing and I asked them to stop and then out of the brush comes this big indian he started to rant and rave and yelling at the top of his lungs at me. Telling me that his kids can do what ever they want and if I have a problem with it I would have to deal with him. well I told him to swim his Happy a$$ over so we could discuss it like men and he threw his beer at me and we exchanged a few words then he heard my last name and was off. Now with experences like that most people would not want to go back to that river but Like I said it is a second home to me and so I will fish that river and I will not take $h!t from anyone there that I dont know. you said lead by example and I follow my father.

I would gladly fish other parts of western washington for kings but its kinda hard when you dont have a boat or a rig to get from place to place.
I am no where close to home right now so I have no clue how the sitution with the natives is going but I can guess that its not well.

Just my $.02
Dances out

[ 08-12-2001: Message edited by: danceswithfish ]

[ 08-13-2001: Message edited by: danceswithfish ]

Skaguy: So that was you I saw fixing the fence last Friday night? Thank you for that.
Seriously, that was a very nice gesture. For the record, I've never said or implied that I think the Skokomish is my river.... If it were my river we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. If the Skokomish were my river, I'd shut it down rather than watch all of the B.S. that is currently going on. Also, all of this crap that is going on has just over the last few years gotten real bad. Things never were this bad, say two or three years ago.

SKaGuy,
Thanks for fixing the fence you sound like a true Sportsman. Although I Don't like watching the snaggers Indians or otherwise, I still like to fish and try to overlook the weak minded people who head straight to the "snagging holes" I guess maybe they don't know how to catch a fish legally. As far as the Indians netting yes I have had some bad experiences on more than one river but the good times have always outweighed the bad. And so we fish on.
Ramprat

After reading this entire thread, I have one question I can't resist asking: Why in the hell would you want to fish here??

1) Finding un-netted holes full of biting kings on any given day sounds very unlikely.

2) It's crowded.

3) Hostilities have risen to the point of packing a gun for peace of mind.

4) Human pond scum in the form of whites and indians seems to be in abundance.

Why would a person want to deal with this? There are sooooooo many options for good fishing right now that I honestly can't comprehend why someone would pay good money in gas and tackle and risk there safety to take home a fish in this cultural cesspool.

Count me out! I'll never go there. Fishing is upposed to be fun.....remember?

I'll try and keep my cool on this one
I spent almost 15 years playing softball and socializing with memebers of the Skok tribe,and found them to be great people.

but these low life Muther Phuckers we incounter on the river are just way out there.
It's not about greed for most of us

but some tribal memebers go out of their way to cause BS with us "whiteies"

I don't think violence is the answer,
but I have in the past and proabably will again "pack heat" I just won't take any crap from these guys ( The Tribe or the white trash snaggers )

It's a sport,don't give this sheet about it being a "Way of life" ......being ignorant is not a way of life .

We could always go into the way they managed to destory to Elk population in the area,and this after the Game department brought more animals in.....and now they want more Oh Brother....and they let these some of people...breed .....Os

DancesWF, you and your Dad have probably as much reason as anyone to be unhappy w/ the Skok, and after some of the other stories I've heard, your wariness is probably justified.
The Skok tribal people I've spoken with dont think theres a problem on the river. Could be they dont know about what's going on. And if it gets too confrontational, I believe they can close access to any land that is tribally held. If I understand the boundary, thats above the bridge.
Maybe the answer is to let them decimate the river. Sad option, but they dont seem to manage it very well.
Saw something interesting yesterday on the canal. A tribal was on the canal with his net. A power boat went by with about 150 yards or more clear. He slowed down enough to push a big wake, and kept motoring. After the ride he got, that tribal may think a second time about where he sets his nets. Moral of the story: There may be more than one way to skin a cat....

I've noticed the Skoks don't like you to set foot on the north side of the river.........unless, of course, you're at the Quik-Mart or a firework stand, then apparently it's OK to be on that side.

Is there any wild fish left in the Skok?

Hey ZOZO, Looks like your headed for another two page post and I couldn't agree with you more. Your setiments are whole heartedly viewed by alot of N.W. fishers as one of the main reasons for the incredible demise of our N.W. fishing stocks.
And rich, thier probably isn't any native chinook on the skok.,It was dead and now it's alive, paid for by whom and with what?
My, what a few years dfference makes.
SAD BUT TRUE---but what can we do?

I agree with Eric on this one fellas. Fishing is supposed to be fun, not about looking over your shoulder or worrying about what some dumb [Bleeeeep!] will do next.

Maybe you guys should organize a "clean up" date for the "Skok" if you know what i mean... (just kidding)
Dont take matters in your own hands, video tape, call in poachers whatever needs to be done to get back your river. The more we act like fools the less respect sportsman get. Go bout' it the right way and clean it up. No guns, last thing we need is a fricken shooting. there's plent of round rocks to throw...lol

Ska guy - thanks for fixing the fence, and I don't/haven't fished that river yet, but I wanted to say thanks.

Quote of the thread:
---Dances, that's what's wrong with society nowadays, it seems most people are afraid to take an ass whooping. If men want to settle it like men, then I say leave your drunken warriors back at the house and bring that **** on, mano y mano. Little buddy, you can fish with me anytime because I like how you stand for something.
Littlezozo, of course y'all are welcome and shoot me an email next time you go down there, either of you. I'll meet up with ya.

Why go to the Skok? Sheesh--I don't have to walk further than the nearest beach to see a couple of gulls fighting over a scrap of fish...

We're not going down there to fight over fish. It's a matter of principles. if we say "Screw it" and leave the Skok for the Indians, then where do we stop. So what, we leave the Skok to the indians and we head for the Barrier dam. What do we do when we get down there and everyone is snagging? Do we say "Screw this too" and head for the Toutle? What if we don't like what we see on the Toutle? Do we just leave? Where do we stop? Where do we make our stand? Shouldn't we put our collective foot down somewhere and say "This is it! I'm not taking this crap any longer!?" Why should the honest sportsmen always be the ones to give in? Why can't something be done to reclaim what is ours and to make fishing pure again? Shoulder to shoulder with Triple hooks and Buzz Bombs, right in the middle of a bunch of nets is not how it was meant to be. So why should we suffer? Why should we give up? I must admitt, I was very discouraged when I first started this thread, and I even considered the whole "If you can't beat them, join them route" but now that I've seen how many others are concerned about this issue, I have re-thought my earlier statments. Sinking to the level of others is never the answer, niether is giving up.

At considerable risk, I'll stick my nose into this discussion, perhaps to add a different perspective.

I don't fish the Skokomish River but if I recall, isn't that the river where Tacoma City Light illegally built a hydropower project on the North Fork, in the middle of the Skokomish Indian Reservation (the Cushman Hydro Project)? Isn't that the project that was built without any fish ladders? Isn't that the project that has been operating illegally (i.e. without a Federal license) for the past 75 years with no measures to protect salmon and steelhead? Isn't it Tacoma City Light that continues to thumb it's nose at the Tribe and their legitamate concerns regarding how they (Tacoma) illegally took their land for their project? Isn't it Tacoma City Light that is raking in a ton of cash from this project but the tribe continues to get nothing in return even though the project is located on Skokomish Tribal land?

This injustice occurred many years ago but the impacts to the tribe and the fish continues to this day. Why hasn't the Federal government taken any action against Tacoma for this? What affect does this situation, and it's lack of resolution, contribute to the bad feelings on the part of the Skokomish tribe?

None of these problems justifies the concerns expressed on this thread (e.g., snagging, trespassing, potential violence, overfishing, excessive netting, inconsideration behavior, etc). However, the tribal members live in the shadow of a continuing insult to their reservation, the river, and the fish. It's very unfortunate they seem to be taking out their frustrations on legitimate sport anglers. But from their view, it is our Federal government's lack of corrective action that has caused this situation. To some extent, they are not wrong.

But I will emphasize that this does NOT excuse their behavior. It only helps explain it. So, instead of pointing fingers at each other, sport anglers and tribal members should collectivily focus their anger at another source for the problems on the Skokomish River - Tacoma City Light.

Coho', you may have a valid point to some degree - I don't know the TCL situation there. But it is in no way an excuse for Tribal members to abuse fish runs and sportanglers! ...

Great post Littlezozo!

RT

You've all found yourself one nasty situation. I can't believe the level of $hit that any of you have to tolerate on the Skok. From what you all describe it sounds like a story line from Tales of the Crypt.

I think your right in not giving up the fight. Continue to fight for what you believe and set a higher standard even if it's harder to do.

Us southern boys have to witness the waste and destruction of the nets from commercials on the lower Columbia to the tribal nets above the dam. I thank god that we don't have netting in our coastal rivers or in the Columbia tribs in Oregon. When you have to work day in and day out trying to catch a fish in a battle zone it would take every last ounce of fun out of it.

Good luck in your battles....I hope it gets better up there.

Yikes
I think I'll stick to bass fishing.

Coho
I hate to say it but the Dam that TCL built has little to no impact on the fish mainly because the fish dont make it up that far.

Now I will admit when they first put it in it might of had some effect but not much considering it is a fair way up the river.

I personaly have not hiked up to it but I have gone quite aways up that river and there are a few parts where the river almost becomes inpassable. Now lake cushman has landlocks in it so obviously some fish did make it up that far. But I dont think that it impacted the river to the point of no fish.

Hey Yall
When I get back from my vacation we might have to go down there and go fishing and who knows maybe even clean up some of the trash down there. well I got to go my plane is here
Dances Out

http://www.nwifc.wa.gov/search/search.idq?CiMaxRecordsPerPage=10&TemplateName=query&CiSort=rank%5Bd%5D&HTMLQueryForm=query.htm&CiRestriction=skokomish+river&CiScope=%2F&I3.x=25&I3. y=4

Keta: Nice link..... It still doesn't justify the f**ked up thinks the Skokomish tribe is doing on the River. The Skoks had the river. Then, somebody a little higher up on the food chain came and built a dam on it. It happens all of the time. I don't like it anymore than you do, but it is still no excuse to act like a bunch of Idiots everytime a run of fish happens to come up the river. The Skoks are taking advantage of an outdated and poorly worded treaty, the same way that ALL the Treaty Tribes do. If the Skoks truly cared about the Skokomish river system they would pull the nets out and stop the unabashed slaughter and wastage of all of those fish.... BTW, this statement applies to all netters wherever you may be.

Those links are the biggest bunch of BS!!!! The fish didn't make it up to the original lake. There was a lower set of falls that the fish couldn't make over. They forgot to tell you about that didn't they.

There was fish in the river 20 years ago.

The dam's have been in 90 years.

The tribe has no interest in getting fish back in the river, if they do they can't try to get any money (billions)

Most of their lawsuits have been thrown out court.

It would be interesting to see how many lawsuits there would be if they had to use their own money.

USFS wanted to take a few (6 fish) for broodstock, the tribe told them "NO" If there was enough to take for broodstock they would have to admidt there were fish in the river.

Don't belive everything you read, if you do I have some great property to sell you.

The dam may be responsible for a lot of bad things on the Skokomish. I don't know about fish passage issues, but siltation caused by the lower flows since the dam went in is believed to be responsible for the substantial reduction of wild chinook and steelhead in the river. These are hardly to be found anymore on the Skokomish; their disappearence occurred within the decade following the dam, before treaty rights were recognized.

The siltation and filling of the river below the forks is also responsible for the news worthy flooding that occurs just about every winter. I don't think the homeowners that built on the river would have done so if historically the river overflowed its banks like it does now.

I know its a supreme irritation to us sporties, but all told, I'd rather have the Indians pound a hatchery run like they do on the Skok then wild runs. At least its an allocation issue (not to mention gear conflicts) as opposed to a conservation issue in which wild stocks are at risk. The wild guys are mostly gone, thanks to the dam.

Damn, I hadnt intended to log in today, but I just couldnt resist getting my 2 cents worth into this.
First of all, the dam is not the only problem source in the Skok Valley. Logging practices are also to blame. I dont want to defend TCL, but I dont really think they are the sole cause of the problem. I've no idea of how much action has been brought against the timber industry there, by the tribe, but I suspect it hasnt been much. Hmm.. Tribe like logging???
After conversation with others who are more knowledgable than I am, though, I believe the Tribe's position is mostly about the $$ Ca$h. Even though some of them would prefer to see the fish restored, they'll fish anything to extinction, so long as it supports their legal position to litigate about the dam. Paying them off sounds like a great idea until you consider the legal precedences it would establish.
And from what I've heard, they dont want to assume ownership and operation of the power plant, as it is probably too labor-intensive. i.e., theyd have to WORK at it.
The river has lots of good looking spawning habitat, but it will probably never be stocked or restored in any way until the lawsuits about the dam go away. Who in their right mind would do anything to enhance or restore the runs while the tribe would purposely decimate their effort to support their court actions??
TCL seems to have a history of not being very fish-conscious, (look at their actions on the Cowlitz reported in another thread) and may very well be operating the dam illegally.
But with the legislative influence and votive power of Tacoma and Pierce County, their position is nearly invulnerable. And they know it, therefore they'll do nothing until they're forced.
So, the tensions and incivilities along the Skok will continue to escalate until bloodshed happens, then the US Marshals will be brought in, and the tribe will finally get their day in court.
And the sport fisherman will ultimately lose, again. The fish?? Oh well...everyone say: let WDFW take care of it. After 20 years of studies, they'll get around to doing something, maybe.
Sorta makes you wonder, doesnt it.

OB
I hate to say it but I have heard stories from old timers about the fish runs forty to fifty years ago now I am not sayin there is a whole lot of truth to these stories because everyone knows how badly fisherman lie but whe I hear the exact same kind of stories from my dad and his friends from twenty years ago it kinda makes you wounder whats going.

And about the wild steelhead there are a few left because I have caught them and my dad has caught them. they are there but they are few and far between. I am not saying they are native because the skok is stocked with steelhead every year but none of the fish ever seem to make it back to spawn.

I know of a group who is desperatly trying to bring back a lost run of steelhead and they are having some progress and once they are done on that river they plan to move to the skok now if they are success full it will be amazing but it is at least something.
Well I have to go party alittle considering its my birthday and all
Dances Out

ZOZO, IZ THAT THE NEXT BEST THING AS A YO-YO? maybe you should join custers last stand.

The Dams did it??????
What crock of $hit
The Damn river was over netted....plain and simple,
it was all about money to the tribe......Os

ZOZO=YOYO? Join Custer's Last Stand? Oh, I get it, You are trying to make an attempt at humor. As long as we're talking about Custer, let's examine exactly what happened AFTER Custer's Last Stand..... The Whites came back with more soldiers, rounded up all of the Indians, gave them the $hitiest land as reservations, killed the ones that refused to go tame, and then the whites proceeded west. Every time a new indian tribe was discovered, the whites either forced them onto a reservation, or killed them for being "Hostile". This continued for quite some time. Now, in this day in age..... The world as we know it is totally controlled by rich men of European descent, the Indians have become a "Domesticated" race of people who are incapable of self sufficiency. They do however, get to net fish, have casinos, and they get to sell fireworks. Wow, not a bad trade for a couple hundred dead white guys.

hey LZ
We have all heard the history lesson(sp) And yes they indians did get screwed in the begining but why take it out on poor defenceless fish? What's done is done lets move on, and stop look'n in the past.
If we dont put all of our differences aside then nothing will get done. Just look at some of the other rivers on the olympic peninsula like the duckabush its dead now because of over netting. Do you want that to happen to all the rivers here or just the select few that you dont fish?

Now I know that there are other tribes who work to help restore runs of fish but the skok is not one of them. They get more money if there are no fish in the river then when there is. So what is stoppin them from over fishing nothing because either way they make money! and thats what its all about! MONEY MONEY MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!

Well I am going to stop rambling. I am going to be fishing sunday morning of next week out there and if anyone would like to join me then you are welcome. I would like some friendly company and mabye some to help me fight off the locals
What do you say to that Hey_Yall

hey LZ
We have all heard the history lesson(sp) And yes they indians did get screwed in the begining but why take it out on poor defenceless fish? What's done is done lets move on, and stop look'n in the past.
If we dont put all of our differences aside then nothing will get done. Just look at some of the other rivers on the olympic peninsula like the duckabush its dead now because of over netting. Do you want that to happen to all the rivers here or just the select few that you dont fish?

Now I know that there are other tribes who work to help restore runs of fish but the skok is not one of them. They get more money if there are no fish in the river then when there is. So what is stoppin them from over fishing nothing because either way they make money! and thats what its all about! MONEY MONEY MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!

Well I am going to stop rambling. I am going to be fishing sunday morning of next week out there and if anyone would like to join me then you are welcome. I would like some friendly company and mabye some to help me fight off the locals
What do you say to that Hey_Yall
I'd say let's make it a date but I dont want you to take it the wrong way

Sunday, as in 2 days, or 9?

I gotta go get purdeeeed up. Gotta spray some of that stank good on me since I got me one of dem dere meatin's.

Hey_Yall
it would have to be in 9 days. It would be really hard for me to go this sunday cuz I am half way around the world so I guess it will have to be in 9 days. I think I might even be able to drag my oldman out there too. Just as long as he is back in time for church
Well I got to go catch my flight to NZed so have funn everyone
Dances Out