In the last couple of weeks there have been numerous occasions that I have witnessed that the tribes netting fish out on the Hood Canal have been stripping the fish for there eggs. After the eggs have taken the fish are then either thrown on on the beach or over the side. I have contacted the WDFW about a week ago and let them know that I have a video of this going on. As of today I have not got a response from them. To my knowledge I thought there was a law for all commercial fishermen tribal and non-tribal fisherman not to waste fish. Does anyone know about this law. Not only are the tribes wasting the fish there are also making remarks to the sport fishermen that here we come to net all the fish. The tension between the tribes and sportsmen are going to come to a head someday and this will not be a pretty site.

Wow, if you do have a video of these actions going on and are willing to mail me a copy I'll digitize it and put some of the better footage on the web. LMK, as this needs to be seen.

If I were you Id send a copy to each news station with a letter explaining it. And id also tell them how WDFW has never responded to your report. If nothing else WDFW's lack of response will get their attention.

This happens every fall on hoods canal. Two years ago there was at least 75 fish laying on gravel bar that the indians raped. Seems the WDF just closes it eyes to this.. when the eggs are more valuable than the fish this is what happens ..

I too have witnessed this way too often. I would encourage everyone heading to the canal too carry their video camera with them to capture more of this obscene action by the tribes. I will have mine with me on every trip this year.

Save yourself some grief and just stay away from Hoodsport. This has been going on for a few years now.Three years ago I called Bob Motram of the Tacoma News Tribune and told him what was happening over there.To his credit he went and saw for himself. He wrote a nice long article about the whole thing i.e.fish being stripped for the eggs and then left on the beach in large bundles to rot,fishermen and boats being surrounded by beach seine nets and then having to move out of the area they had been fishing so the indians could reap there harvest.All this taking place right in front of and on shore of the state fish hatchery there. The long and short of it is nothing has come of it except now they are suppose to haul the carcasses out to the middle of the canal and dump them!MAKES ME SICK!!!!

Okay I'll probably take my lumps on this one but am feelin bored... some questions? 1) Why fish a zoo fishery unless you can tolerate the performance? 2) Are you able to get your limits still? 3) You do realize that these fish are way surplus beyond our means to harvest them all? 4) You do recognize that these fish whether they die on their own or are left by commercial harvestors contribute their nutrients to the Hood Canal(HC) ecosystem thus continuing the cycle of really nice chinook, coho, chum and humpy runs we've been experiencing the last few seasons? This huge nutrient source also supports crab, shrimp, rockfish, lings, herring stocks and a myriad of other critters. Reduce it and the reduction in all goes down proportionately. 5) You are aware that this and several other HC chum runs were designed in the mid 70's for the nontribal commercial fleet ...not sporties? Essentially a taxpayer supported chum factory for the commercials; 6) There's a certain nontribal sport(?)element that has shown up in the Hoodsport area in recent years that practices the same egg stripping practices...can we all say caviar...Da! Comrade! Have you noticed? I could go on but this should suffice to get myself chewed on more than a little. 7) Why fish at Hoodsport when there actually at least better condition fish at other sites?

I am in no way attacking the ideals, ethics, and beliefs of you guys. I think they're great. Recognize in any replies I'm not a basher unless bashed. Also I don't support commercial harvest of any kind by net by anyone just like I don't like snaggers. If you've read my posts elsewhere on this BB you know that I too fish one or two zoo fisheries and sometimes enjoy/sometimes don't enjoy the show. I also believe we need to look at the whole problem rather than focus narrowly on a portion. Not lookin for an argument. Not lookin to bash. Willin to discuss facts though.

Gooose

I haven't fished hoodsport for many years, but this type of waste is not only limited to that area. I have witnessed the same activity from other tribes in the Puget Sound area on major rivers system near Tacoma and Seattle. The price they get for the chum roe, compared to the pennies they get for the whole fish make it much more worthwhile for them to strip the roe and chuck the carcasses. When I have reported these violations in the past, they have gone nowhere.

They get 4-6 bucks a pound for the eggs, and literally can't give the fish away, even to the food banks, because the food banks lack cold storage.

I talked with WDFW and the Point-no-point enforcement and this, unfortunately, is perfectly legal. It makes me sick that they harvest the fish, but only utilize the eggs. Shoot, I would feel a bit better if they figured out a way to make it into catfood or dogfood.

Goose makes some valid points about the nutrients, but I would rather see them forced to truck the fish upstream a few miles and then dump them in the river. At least then the kings and silvers would benefit from the nutrients.

B Mac seen the same thing all over. Actually posted on it earlier in a Skok thread. Dime bright silvers were down to 15 cents a pound at one time whereas the eggs were up around $6 a pound. Summer chum hens from Hood Canal were being taken for their eggs for $12 a pound until several of us complained. Tribal regs actually allowed the taking of esa listed as threatened summer chums if they accidently died in the net. These were beach seined fish which are supposedly the method is fish kind and but oddly didn't see any bucks go into the totes.
A couple of complaints ended this real quick.
These pirates though were the few rather than the many so I'm not labling one group.

Gooose

Dogfish be assured that chinook and coho are not only highly dependent upon freshwater invertebrates for food. They actually gain most of their size feeding on the saltwater stuff....but still yeah that's a good idea as all those nutrients ultimately flow downstream to the saltchuck to help produce the quarry we dearly love and pursue.

Gooose

I saw the same thing happening on the lower Duamish River under the 1st Ave Street Bridge.

You guys want to get really mad??? The state calls the tribe and tells them to come net out the surplus fish. They won't let them go up Finch creek and spawn because of the smell.

Fishhead5

Its not just happening on the big hatchery runs... its also hapening on the small rivers that are mostly native. Why close off the Straits to every thing but Hatchery fish and then open up the canal to kill them all.

Couple news stories on the fall chum harvest this year:
http://www.thesunlink.com/news/2001/october/1030fish.html
http://news.theolympian.com/stories/20011026/HomePageStories/128546.shtml

This shows the complete lack of respect for the fish and the resource many of the tribes have. They are blinded by dollars$$$$$$$$$$$$$ it has nothing to do with the culture the fishing rights are supposedly based on. Not bashing anyone, just pointing out the obvious. You can see it throughout this whole thread everything goes back to making a profit. It would be nice if someone actually thought of the the fish a something other than swimming dollars.

HOLY COW!!?!?! Someone's trying to make money????? What the freak?!?! How dare they???

I'd like to know, since when is making a living part of anyone's culture???

Seriously, though, I have a hard time with anyone (anglers even) telling someone how to make a living. I'd rather have someone out on a boat, making a living like a lot of people did back in the day, than either not working or in a job they hate.

Yes, it is about money. So is my life, without my job, I'd be up a certain creek. But, no one comes to my work and tells me that I shouldn't do it because I make (gasp) $$$$$$$$$ out of it. Also, I doubt a lot of Skoks are making big bucks fishing. How many millionaire Indians you see running around?

Anyway, I digress... the only problem here is that not only is there no market for fall chum, but now silvers. I'd have a yuppie buy a nice Hood Canal silver from Thriftway than a farmed Atlantic or "Copper River" whatever they are.

my two cents

Well, I am glad that some of that article was saying they are wasting some salmon. 1 or 2 people are the only ones doing it. BS! I have been fishing a hole with 5 guys and had an indian string his nets up across the hole we WERE fishing..
My buddy was fishing the skok 2 weeks ago and he was standing on the indians side but in the water(totally legal) then he heard a shot and then small bb's landed in the water next to him. Someone tried to shoot him with a shotgun. What the hell is that?

What the indians are doing is outright poaching. The state may not see it as that right now but some day hopefully it will. this is no different than the guys killing the elephants for tusks or killing tigers for skins or the guys killing the bears for gall bladders. Killing fish for eggs is no different. What a waste. You're ancestors would be absolutly disgusted.

OK guys, i's been a while since I last posted.... This tribal BS is the reason why. I just got sick and tired of hearing it all of the time. It is sooo demoralizing to hear about the tribal slaughter time and time again and to have absolutley no recourse whatsoever. Its the reason I dont visit the BB very often anymore. I must appologize to everyone who has been following this thread as my remarks will likely get the thread shut down, but I'm going to say them anyway. If this offends anyone....... Well too bad, you'll get over it. Here goes: F#ck those Indians. We should've never given back the land we took from them to begin with. The only comfort I can take from this whole situation is the knowledge that the Native American is a domesticated savage, he depends on the white man//nontribal comunity to provide him with everything he needs to be able to support his family.... Sure he ges to net, but that's it. He relies on our government to provide his housing,and he uses our welfare to feed himself. So go ahead Injuns, net em up, and make jokes about how you're sticking to the white man, then when you're done for the day, go back to the reservation that was given to you by the white man, into the house that was provided by the government, and open the bottle of whiskey that we got your people addicted to, and wonder to yourself how you'd ever make it without those horrible white men to take care of your people..... Who has the last laugh??

Hey ZoZo welcome back........So how do you really feel?

Why do we beat this Dead Horse?
............Os

The glue factory called. The horse is already off to processing.

That was beautiful ZOZO, welcome back.

WOW!!!

Hi ZOZO,

I was thinking about you the other day and how I hadn't seen any post from you lately.

I like the way you just let go, no holds barred, damn the torpedos, full speed ahead. I can't say that I entirely agree with every position that you take, but I agree with enough of them. Ya got guts to say what you just said, I'll give you that much.

Now tell me how you really feel, don't candycoat the issue. Okay?

All kidding aside, welcome back from your hiatus (sp?, don't want to offend the spellchecker).

Now then, if we could only channel that energy for a greater good.

Thanks for the entertainment, Zozo. You crack me up.

Andy

I can't stand discussing tribal netting anymore either, it just makes a person pissed.

Yalls got balls zoo zoo. Don't know if I would have phrased it quite the same, though.

The tribes actions are shamefull. But what i do not understand is everyone bashing the WDF. It is a federal issue. The only way we can change things is by letting our senators and congresspeople no that we will not vote for them so long as they contiue to let this happen. There are more fishermen in this state than indians. We may not have the money but when you talk about a 100,000 votes it just might make them wake up. The WDF is on our side they just can not do anything about it. State and federal law prevents them. In short taking it out on the WDF will get you know where period. If you are really mad start writing to the feds.

Won't let the fish go upstream to spawn because of the smell? Sheesh! What's going to happen with salmon restoration efforts in the Seattle/Tacoma area if that's a concern?
I thought the Hoodsport hatchery got all of its water from a well so there shouldn't be a disease concern which would be the only valid reason for this practice.

Here's an idea for discussion. If these eggs are worth big bucks then why not allow the excess to be harvested to strictly support salmon/steelhead enhancement/restoration efforts by local groups? Funds from the sale of these eggs would also be used to pay for transporting the unwanted carcasses into the upper watersheds for nutrient supplementation.


"Best of the Best"
Team TopGun

Gooose

you should fish the skok. i like seeing how many of the nets and palm sized treble hooks i can find. one day off of purdy creek cut off road i pulled 4 old nets out of the water and there was one i couldnt get to. all of them stacked full of kings and silvers. someone told me that cleaning up the nets in the river is illegal and i can get a ticket for taking the nets out?? dont know if its true but it probably is. twice this fall i seen piles of salmon with over 200 fish in them and one of them had atleast 500. all females and all missing the eggs of course. but if you just go fishing with me on any day i can find a pile of 10 or 20 like it was nothing. and i can take you to see 5 or 6 indians working the good holes with the huge treble hook. my favorite one is the little white kid. he will snag one about every cast and if its a male he gets pissed and shakes it around until it gets ripped off the hook. then he kicks it back in the water(if he doesnt decide to stab it and throw it on the bank, and yes the kid does that too) well i hate indians and could go on and on but i wanna start in on everyone else now. how many times have you gone to a busy spot to see some redneck with an almost empty half rack just pitching his beer cans and whatever else in the river? or howbout them damn styrofoam containers that hold worms? im damn tired of picking up after these people too. i fill a black trash bag every time i go to the skokomish river. and every time i go to the river i never see anyone else packing out trash (theirs or someone elses) so i dont feel these people can really complain about litter. if you aint helping youre part of the problem. and before i get out i just wanna say that the news doesnt care about the indians raping the salmon runs. i emailed them after they did their little bit about the chums simming across the roads when we flooded and they showed all the people throwing them back in the river. i told them that i could take them to a spot right down the road from where they just did that report and i could show them 500 gutted female salmon. not a word was emailed back to me. i told them i got video of indians snagging and netting just for the eggs. again nothing. they dont care. no one really does. atleast not someone high enough up the political ladder to do anything about it. just do what i do throw rocks at the little injuns

Just a little curve ball.

Believe it or not I actually was so curious about why these eggs were in such demand that I tried some last week. I ran in to a fellow fisherman that raved about the taste. It just so happened that he had a jar all ready to go. Being one to try any food I took my beer cap (my first beer mind you) and scooped some out and chewed em up.

Trust me on this one they aren't all that and no I would not ever try them again, even if someone tried to convince me that they have a better brine!

Lucky for me I had a chaser, but not before tasting the true essence of those nasty buggers.

My opinion is why waste such a great bait!

FJ...out.

I agree with the point that someone made above that WDFW is NOT the agency to bash on here. They have no jurisdiction to do anything about tribal fisheries, especially a legal one (disgusting, yes, illegal, no).

Here's a possible angle, though. If fish are removed from a net, stripped, and tossed back in, the boat that they are tossed out of may be a "point source" under the Clean Water Act. As such, it would need a permit from the EPA to discharge a "pollutant" (fish carcasses) into a navigable waterway (Hood Canal).

The CWA is, of course, a federal law, and does indeed apply to the tribes.

Anyone know any attorneys at the Department of Justice? Anyone feel like making a citizen complaint under the Clean Water Act to force the EPA to regulate the dumping of salmon carcasses from tribal fishing boats?

Mike, this seems more up the RFA's alley than mine. Any interest?

Just a thought. I know the WDFW/AGO has considered regulating net pens as point sources under the CWA due to the waste produced by fish in the pens. This seems even more obvious.

Maybe someone ought to try the Attorney General's Office and see if they can bend an ear.

Fish on...

Todd.

Interesting idea, but I don't think it would be my first option, more like a last ditch effort. I believe there are laws about the wastage of fish at the federal level as well.

The skokes are the biggest abuser of the hood canal there is.The white commercial fisherman in bed with the state is second.When I was a kid my dad took me down to the skoke salmon fishing and I wandered off on my own,fishing.came upon a group of indians snagging salmon.I was too young to know that was what they were doing,but they were.Innocent as I was I wandered up and said hi.after a brief manhandling,and being threanted with death, I ran back to my dad,crying.I have seen them up at holman flats litterally filling the river with a week or twos camping trash.I have seen them up blasting deer in the middle of summer.Ihave driven through the reservation on a friday going camping with pops.stopped and tried to buy a salmon from a skoke with a truck full and denied,only to come back through sunday to see the salmon in the back of the same truck rotten.The list goes on.I havent fished any of those fisheries in so long just because of these things.I known what to expect.I have already been on the front page of the local paper pointing fingers and crying did no good.Don't take this wrong guys but a soon as the chum run dies you guys from across the puddle will forget most of it anyways.I like to know how many of the chums that get taken home buy fishermen get eaten anyways.Anybody that really cares should talk to Drew he has a better pipe dream.PEACE

thanks ZoZo... finally someone has the balls to say what most people are thinking but no one wants to come out and say!!! I would have loved to bring that point up, but i tend to get jumped on, there are a few people here with their drags set too tight.

KSR, you're new here..... Welcome to the board. Over time you'll see that I am one of the more opinionated members on this board. The way I see it, that's what the BB is for. It's a good place to air our opinions and to get things off of our collective chest. Sometimes I'll say something and everyone else on the BB will be like "Hell yeah! Way to go Zozo!" Other times I'll say something and everyone else will be like "Oh you filthy *******, Zozo. Someone ought to shoot you!" Thats the risk you take when you throw your honest opinion up in a public forum.... You always run the risk that someone might not agree with you. It's all good though, That's what makes this board interesting, all of the different opinions and viewpoints that are being expressed.

I have seen the same thing in lake washington and called f&w on 3 seperate occasions but and they said they might send someone if they they have people in the area. it makes me sick.
Tyler