FINALLY!

WDFW is getting smart and proposing a ban, albeit a partial one, on the use of sleds above the water intake on the wynoochee and the west fork of the satsop.

You can read about this in the proposed reg. changes on their website.

It's about time.

YEAH!!!!!!!!!
it is about time for this......hurahhhhhh.....Os

That would be great,but I'll beleive it when I see
it.Good luck,
STRIKE ZONE


Team-LTD & Coke

i will also belive it when i see it...

You can help yourselves believe it by calling WDFW and encouraging the passage of this proposed reg. I hate to see regs like this become necessary, but when common sense is relied upon, it has failed. Sleds up around Schaeffer creek show that some sled pilots are apt to leave their common sense at home.

I'll just keep my fingers crossed that this proposal is adopted.

Dan is right, If you want this proposal you had better write or call. These are only proposals and will not be pushed through unless the WDFW hears support for or against.

I just sent my email and 2 of my other friends are going to email also.

Not to rain on the parade but there may be a problem. WDFW may not be able to regulate boat traffic on a waterway. Their jurisdiction would only apply to fishing from a boat...just like the Elwha.....where you can use a boat...just can't fish from it. The only way I see that they could restrict boat use is if there's an ESA issue like eagles on the Skagit. By the way I'm a bankie except when I'm lucky enough to get an invite.

Gooose

Actually gooose, the WDFW can put a motorzied vessle ban on any river they want to by putting it in the regulations under special rules. All they need is the approval and it's a go. I know there's more then a few rivers that have it and it's not an ESA issue.

I'm all for it. Nothing like coming around a blind corner and hearing the whizzz of a sled coming up and not knowing if he's going to be in your path. My email is on it's way.

Full disclosure first, I am a sled owner but also a proponent of knowing your limitations.
What about a size restriction on all motorized boats on certain rivers? I currently am working on a 12 foot sled with inboard jet power just for very skinny water because I don't want to run over fellow fishermen in a 20 footer. I have to go 30 mph plus in shallow water in my big boat and its not safe in confined spaces. This is just a question...not provocation.

Steelheader69 not lookin for an argument just a discussion. From what I can find in the reg's, RCWs,and WACs WDFW juridiction only covers fishing activity....such as fishing from a motorizedor and/or a nonmotorised floating device in specific waters. They have zero jurisdiction over boat traffic of any kind except where they may control thru ownership of shorelines or in the case of habit or ESA concerns. Would WDFW be able to restrict motorized boat birdwatchers on the nooche....don't see how? Personnally I find it sad that it's come to this. Anyway the only relevant reg I could find is a mandate to maintain 'orderly fisheries." Again not looking for an argument ...just a discussion.
Peace

Gooose

Just a question...how is that motors are banned, both electric and gas above the Modrow bridge on the Kalama.

The gamies write tickets for violators....

It is also stated in the fishing regs????


giz...

There's many lakes that you can't have internal combustion engines on. These aren't ESA issues, they're all real small lakes that they wanted the guys with the small boats to enjoy some peace and quiet.
Nothing like a nice quiet morning on the lake and here comes some schmuck to the boat ramp with his gas trolling motor and continues to troll all day. I could see it if it were a big boat but they're always in 12' V hulls.
C'mon you can get a decent elec. motor for a little boat now for around $100 or so.

I use my sled more than my dritboat, or bank fish, but I am very glad to see restrictions banning sled use above the intake and W.Fork on the 'Nooch and 'Sop. All NW rivers similar to those 2 should have appropriate motor deadlines. But NOT for electric motors (see below). And smaller streams than those, such as on the north Oregon coast, have the motor bans down low near Hwy. 101. There will never be a shortage of selfish doughballs that will cross the line of common sense, safety, and the peaceful concerns of the majority - unless they are regulated to do so. ... So be it!

Wit', size restrictions on motorized river boats could be appropriate on some smaller rivers. But most of the places they will be allowed to run, the size range of common river boats won't make that much difference. Bigger and wider sleds get on plane faster and actually cause less wake than smaller narrower boats in many cases. A good example of a major restriction backfiring is when they put a 35 h.p. OB motor restriction on the big Kenai River in AK. Even though a few manufacturer's put 35 hp cowells on 45 & 50 hp motors, they still cause more wake than the 200 hp jetpump motored sleds do; in my opinion. Since that reg they have become slower and take longer distances to get on plane with 5 people (4 clients + guide), and ride just a little deeper in the water while traveling because of lack of enough power. These both have caused more wake rather than less, as was the main reason given for the restriction. Some contend the reduced speeds are safer on such a crowded river, and that does have some merit. That may be why the restriction remains?

And Giz, not allowing electric trolling/backtrolling motors on boats where gas OB's are banned makes no sense what-so-ever to me. It is so rediculous that it angers me. The quiet whirring of the small electric motors with plastic props and flexible shafts are less disturbing to fish and less destructive to spawning gravel than digging/slashing oars! And even oars are benign enough to be OK. Guys who wade on redds cause more damage. Using one of the newer and stronger electrics would be great for those with bad backs (which a high % of guys deal with). What's up with that non-thinking? Write your reps and WDFW/ODFW about that issue also.

RT

Eric:

Maybe.........but

Have both drift and jet boat.....use the jet about 99% of the time.

1. Have run all the local rivers, including the areas in the proposal. Sure don't do if the water is to low.

2. Think this is "over kill", a more reasonable approach would have been a size limit on boat/motors.....15'and smaller, 40 HP motors, ie.

3. Think the WDF...needs to address the additional need for "public boat launches" before the proposal is "law".

A. Would need to have 2 more on the Satsop, probably around Cook Creek and then to replace the one in the west fork area.

B. Same amount on the Wynoochee, would suggest the Carter Creek area and of course Shaefer Creek area.

Will be interesting, sure hope that having WDF pesonnel living in one of these affected area isn't one of the driving forces behind this. Already has tried to "block off" the gravel bar access in the White Bridge area.

As more and more "baby boomers" retire, and have the "toys" they'll need to have places to play. Bottom line, Grays Harbor is fast becoming one of those "play areas". As you well know, the "launch area's" need major upgrades or in fact need to be built and/or maintained to handle this increase in future boat traffic.

If nothing else, makes for interesting reading!!! And allows people to "work on their typing, english, spelling skills....

Tide is right!!!! smile.....

"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

Good news!

I hope they push for one on the Sky from Lewis St. up... Im sick of the "boondog" mentallity in small areas. Turning our small to medium size rivers into highways is not what its about. Sleds are fine on the Columbia, Chehalis, lower skagit, snohomish, etc... Send ur emails to DFW!

Hey Bill,

Gotta disagree with the need for more/improved launches on both rivers. This would only encourage even more people on 2 already horribly overcrowded rivers. The only exception would be the mouth of the westfork satsop; that launch is in total disrepair and is a boat bottom destroyer.

Secondly, you may have the common sense not to run the upper stretches in low water but there are plenty of meatheads out there that wouldn't think twice about doing it. We've watched this crap for over a decade with no improvement seen.

Third, just because a bunch of baby boomers decide to buy toys for an area they shouldn't be in isn't a good excuse to rule out a ban.

fourth, I think the prposal came about not from the WDFW person you speak of but from a growing outcry of fishermen who are frustrated with sleds here.

Time for a ban!

[ 11-07-2001: Message edited by: Eric ]

This couldn't happen at a better time...

As I'm about to take delivery of my brand new kick bu++ river floatin, steelie catchin, one bad a$$ mamma jamma... osprey cataraft

Fish on boys... I'm comin thru!

Ok let me get this straight.....since it's been a while I've seen a "Bird Watcher"
ripping up the Nooch in his jet sled.......But he might scare the little birdies

Come on get real

they can and do in force this issue on rivers where it'a regulation........Os

Oh Ya Pickeled she's a beauty

[ 11-07-2001: Message edited by: Osprey ]

I've never fished the Nooch, however, I do fish the Cowlitz on a regular basis & What a zoo it can be! Guides and other idiots riping up and down the river, one right after another! A drift boater doesn't stand a chance! The total lack of courtesey displayed by a good number of the jet boaters is absolutely ridiculous. In my opinion, if they banned sleds on ALL the rivers it wouldn't hurt my feelings a bit.

Looks like this is one of those situations where a few bad apples spoil the whole bushel. I too have experienced the "me first" attitude of some guys in sleds while on the Cow in my drift boat as they go blasting by at a distance of 20 or 30 feet. On the other hand, while I was on the Cow this past weekend, there were several sleds who dropped down to idle speed to go by. To those of you who eased by the silver/red diamondback with the cowboy on the oars, thanks. To those who went by full bore, this proposal is the result of your (and others like you) lack of courtesy.
Now if we could just all play nice, we wouldn't have more regulations...

They can do power boat bans because they did it on the yakima. My .02.

I have to disagree with you Bankwalker.The upper Sky is big enough to share.I really don't see how boondogging really should upset anyone.I don't think you will ever see a sled ban here,nor should you.
I've never fished the Nooch,I'll bet the area in question is much smaller than the Sultan to Monroe section of the Sky.

Yep its the old sled vers drifboat vers bankie thread
bankies want to ban all boats
drift boaters want to ban all motor boats
sled owners just want to roar up and down the river
waa waa waa you want some chease with that wine?
ben there done that .Get over it.

Well said Mr. Crowder!

Piss off, wankers. :p

moto-ban........kiiiiiiiick ass.

RT: it makes no sense to me either. My comment was to show goose that dispite what he may have found in RCW re WDFD scope of authority over the use of motors in rivers to look at the Kalama as an example of how they do control them through regs.

In Or. certain forms of motors are restricted once you leave tide water. In Wa many lakes are also controlled by either horsepower limits or the ban of a gas and in some lakes no motors at all.

So to say WDFD cannot by authority limit the use of motors does not reflect in actual practice.

On the Kalama, I feel that the use of an electric motor should be allowed as it does no harm and as many of us are getting older and some with diabilites. The use of an electric motor will help us continue to fish.

Several years ago, when the Kalama was closed to the taking of spring chinook. There were a few old timers who would slip down to their favorite hole, catch a few nooks and then return upstream via the help of an electric motor. The gamies were told of this practice repeatedly.

One morning they finally staked out the hole and the only ticket the guy in his late 70's got was for using his electric motor. Forget the fact that he had been keeping spring chinook but that morning he had no fish.

Giz....

I fish all the rivers mentioned above. I also own a driftboat but the sky in more than big enough to fish a sled in it and have not problem with most. But I think the fustration is coming from guys who instist on low holeing you and even give you that glance before they do it. Which tells me they know better. It was nice in the low water when they couldn't get up there but can't see a ban though. And anyway I love pulling fish from behind them "HEY YOU MISSED ONE!!!!"

Tight lines

Kevin

Leadslinger, I could deal with a deadline at sultan or even below the Wallace for sleds, I feel this would be a good compromise. But a few bad apples are changing my attitude in the upper river. Last Winter and Summer I would hike into spots between high bridge & Sultan and be in a run first only to have a sled run up and boondog over the run I am fishing a dozen times, casting right below me. At least with a drift boat, if they are rude and low hole you it's one shot deal. If this type of behavior continues it will impact my tolorance.

I do understand the sentiments to ban sleds.I just don't agree with it when the river is big enough to share.The upper Sky is as sled friendly as the lower Sky.There are some pretty tight spots right off the bat as you head up the lower river.I don't go up much further than that because the bankies have the area upriver fairly well covered.Fair enough,they can have it.
The area above the Wallace is self limiting.I fish above there when I can,not many bankies up there.Not too many boaters will go there either,for good reason.Plenty of room to share the river,just give the other guy a little consideration.
We all impact each other,so unless we all want to take up fly fishing(dry flies,of course) I think you need to have the mindset that you share the river and accomidate when possible.Believe it or not bankies impact boaters too.It's part of the sport.It is no big deal.
I have people boondog through areas I fish,from the bank, all the time.I've never had a problem with it.I let them drift through and then I cast again.Was I supposed to get pissed off about missing one cast?
Also,you are not taking anyones line out of the river with a ban.They will end up competing with you for limited bank access to the section of river that you both like.That's why they are in your way.They like the same spot you do.
Nor is there anything to the there are less fish in your hole/river theory,simply because a sled goes by.For every fish that supposedly gets spooked out of your hole,another one, theoretically, gets spooked into your hole from the hole just down river.
Plenty of Sky for all of us.

Now if I could just find a way to get a spooked fish to bite.

Gizmo your right about the Kalama...thanks...don't mind being corrected at all. Still think that there may be a jurisdiction problem.Can't believe I missed that in onlya 120 plus pages.

Personally as a bankie....I would prefer not to see any boats spoil my morning peace of mind when fishin steelhead. But do I have that right or should I even try to impose it? Maybe we should divvy up everything so only one type of fishing is allowed in each certain stretch of each and every river? Ultimately with all the recent goings on this is where this process is heading.
What I guess I'm trying to get at is my concern for divisiveness in the ranks and displays of more and more rudeness by members of all groups within the ranks.

Peace
Gooose

By the way if did have a choice for bankie only...hmmm ....Nah, certain people would never forgive for it.

Hey Gooose, no offense taken and no fight trying to be started on my end. I just know the regs and they way they're enforced. It clearly states in the regs that if "special regs" are in force, then that means that no motorized vessle is allowed unless stated in the special rules column. They have that in force on the Upper Hoh and a few other rivers. As Os had said, you won't see a sledder running full bore up the Nooch to see a Stellar Jay up near the spillway. Usually they're people fishing. It'll be easily enforcable. If the officers look into the boat and see fishing gear, then they're busted. Easy enough since these rules are for fishermen/women anyways.

Now to the others, I own a sled, a cataraft, and I am a bankie too. I do all three. My cat is for upper rivers. My sled is for bigger rivers like the Chehalis and mouths of Sop, Nooch, and Hump (and etc). Then I bank all over the place if there's one hole I want to hit in particular. So I see every point in question. This is a debate that will be more a fight then a discussion. I say just close the thread. We've all been there done that with this topic.

I'm kinda divided on this issue, i have a very good friend who just purchased a sled, 14 ft with a 40hp jet. He is an owner of a drift boat and the sled. We have mainly fished from the drift boat for the past couple of years but he liked the idea of the versatility of a sled. We recently took the sled to one of the rivers mentioned above. We received alot of looks from the bankies, etc. etc., WE DID however make a point to not go hauling ass thru the holes or even disturb the holes. I think it all boils down to just sheer respect of other people trying to fish the river. My friend went way out of his way to stay out of the way of driftboats and slowed down when we passed all of them... I do believe that a couple of idiots will ruin it for a majority of smaller rivers within this state...I also spend alot of time fishing the bank and i know nothing more in this world pisses me off more than a sled that goes roaring by without even taking a look to see if someone has a fish on or anything..my .02.

Steelheader69 gotta agree . Just that I've seen and personally dealt with some other stuff
where the bird watcher stuff almost happened. Myself, family and friends stopped it. My reference was meant to be general rather than specific to the nooche and soppy. Hey guys realize we aren't the only ones trying to divvy up the pie. .

Gooose

I believe there has been alot of good points bought up in this discusion. But I myself am a sled owner. I ve have fished the above mentioned rivers for alot of years. Im probably the most river courtesy some of a b**** you will ever meet!
But i have also come to the understanding you flat can not make EVERY BODY HAPPY!! Ive been cussed at,rocks thrown at, your #1 to death! But you know what?? If you want to get rid of the boats, get rid of all the boats. Me and everyone else I know that has a sled, will be in line to buy a new drift boat the next day!! And you guys think its crowded now. Wait until all the guys with new drift boats plug up you over the bank access!! Jut a thought.

Somehow I don't see Alumaweld and the other manufacturers sitting back and staying quiet for these proposals. They paid Big $$$ to be put on the covers of the regs. in WA and OR.

The one thing I hear is that people want the sleds to slow down when they pass ya. If you pass me in a blue willies stay on plane please. Because your wake is a hell of alot smaller on plane than it is off. And how many of us have caught a fish right after a sled has stired them up? The only thing that gets me is don't low hole me when I'm pullin plugs or side drifting.

Tight lines

Kevin

Hmm,
Seems like every 6 months or so somebody just HAS to bring this up.
Check the archives and look what`s happened with threads like this in the past.
These have caused readers to quit the B.B. among cause much animosity amongst some of the folks.
I think the best thing to do is just drop the thread.

THis thread is pissing me off. How many times have i heard "sleds stir the fish up!" Your damn right they do!!! In perfect green high water if the fish are stale or have been hit hard in the morning you will get a taker right after a sled pass, BUT in low water in 5 or less feet, a constant line of sleds will shut the fish off most if not all day. I have witnessed this umpteen million freakin times on the sky in my favorite drift. I just plane dont like sleds on small to medium size rivers.

Just wait till the second week in december when the river drops in prime shape on a saturday or sunday and you will have an absolute circus at the sultan ramp. Im sick of being corked, cut off, and blasted by waves. THis year instead of being the good guy and letting some a-hole sidedrift two feet infront of me, im gonna end up splitting his sack....I hope its not yours

Enough of my whinning, most of it is justified as some of you understand when out there. No more sled threads...lol Gets me fired up

You seem to be correct Raincity.It's more of an emotional issue than I would have thought.Some good points brought up by Kevin and others.I do understand the anger some people feel as I fish from the bank fairly often and even in the boat I get crapped on by the few infamous sled drivers that piss the bankies off and give all sleders a blackeye.
I might not agree with you Bankwalker,but I
certainly felt no animosity towards you.
Sometimes you gotta agree to disagree and move on.No hard feelings to anyone here.

I've been equally pissed off by bankies, sledders and drift boaters in all my fishing experiences.
Again let's petition WDFW to divvy up the pie. Shoot ...snaggers could even have their own special place . Geez I'm not serious but that's where this type of discussion is headin. Also realize and I repeat realize regulatory agencies eat this stuff up...gives them justification for existence. They wouldn't be needed if they didn't have to write new rules to manage people.

Gooose

Kevin,

Your post above is right on! If there is plenty of room for a sled to pass bank anglers or driftboats, the wake is smaller and the time spent in your water less if the sled stays up on plane. When the river gets too narrow, that is the time to slow way down to an idle to slowly pass close by. Bankies and drifters unaware of this take a 'plane by' wrongly as a sign of disrespect, and resort to flipping fingers and rocks. That's often ignorance. Also remember that sleds have to stay up on plane to get thru real shallow water. If you are going to bank fish or driftboat where sleds are appropriate then be aware of these factors and more tolerant. If you can't deal with it, don't fish in sledable areas of rivers. There is plenty of places they can't sled. And I am glad to see that they aren't going to be able to sled up higher on such rivers as the 'Nooch and 'Sop anymore. Those are the areas that sled intolerants can go fish now. Conversely, the sledders have few places to get away from bankies and drifters; so they need to be careful not to fish over bankie's lines and not to low hole other boats by pulling in too close below another boat.

The same applies for bankie's intolerance of driftboaters. You have to be aware they need to pass by. If you have waded out and want them to drift behind you, given enough water, politely wave them to do so. If they have the gall to pull plugs or anchor in the water you are already fishing in then rightfully get on their case! If they don't move then keep casting over their lines until they do - especially if you have 'security' measures in place.

With the amount of fishermen on the rivers in this era, and still growing, we are going to have to learn both basic common sense water etiquette and a better degree of tolerance. The alternative could be sections restricted by user groups. Perhaps in the future fishing by odd/even days according to your birth date? I hope not - unless all my buddies have an even numbered birth date.

RT

This came up last year.(as it does every year) I called the F&G, they said call the county commissioners. They said they won't ban motors on either river.

Fishhead5

Fishhead5, Did you ask them why they had a proposal on the table to waste our time?

I only skimmed thru the posts here so excuse if I missed this suggestion. I think they need to start licensing motorized boats operators. They need to be aware of both safety and courtesy rules beofre they can be licensed. And like with auto license if they get 3 infractions in a year then take away their right to drive a boat for a year. Charging a significant fee for the license woudl help to pay for such a program. It would improve things a heck of a lot.

For what it's worth,I believe that vessel/motor restrictions on local rivers are the responsibility of county government. Fishing restrictions are the responsibility of WDF&W. State game officers are cross deputized and are able to enforce both local and state laws. It would be nice to get a official reply from someone in the department.

Ok, let me put a couple more cennts in on this topic. The WDFW can regulate who fishes fromm what type of boat on a waterway. The key word is FISHES!!! Of course if you float or sled a river and are not fishing you can not be harrased (unless there's a county ordanance against it). I

Also, before anyone gets their panties in a bind over the new rules take a good look at the wording. Luckily Ii'm on the proposal list and get a copy of these possible changes ahead of time. It states Motors prohibited upstream of the Ccity of Aberdeen's water intake dam on the Nooch and motors prohibited upstream of the mouth of the East fork of the Satsop. All that water above both oof those points should be motorless anyways. I don't care who you are, I own a sled and would not (and haven't) run my sled above either of those points. It still leaves plenty of good water on both rivers available to sleds. It is in no way "banning" sleds fromm the river. God, do you know how much water yo have to run from mouth of Satsop to East Fork???? Sheesh. East Fork to Schaefer isn't that much water to give up anyways.

Oh well, I'm sure there will be some thta have to have all the river.