After reading the latest issue of STS I am reconsidering my theory to lead usage. I usually speed up or slow down with clarity of water. The STS article states that most people drift too slow. I usually like feeling a soft "rumble" as the lead moves a little slower than the current speed. The technique mentioned in STS was to only let the lead hit avery few feet.

What are the opinions of the board.
And While we are at it leader length. On a good "emerald green" winter steelhead day I use 24" of leader. I have done well with this, suggestions? Also do we need to consider length and speed together as a combination. Faster drift/longer leader?

This is a great topic as I believe lead choice and drift speed are what seperate the great fisherman from the rest.

I am always playing around with lead and speed and how often my lead is touching bottom and also how it is touching bottom.

It would be great to develop a consitent pattern to how much lead one should fish and how fast and how often they should be bouncing bottom in a drift.

Over the past year, since converting to direct drive, I have started throwing farther upstream and feeding line into my drift. I do this so that I am not only on the bottom when my offering begins to swing but because since I have started fishing in this manner I have hit just as many, if not more, when my lead is within a few degrees (angle) of directly across from me. It also seems that how much lead you need to bounce bottom across from you can have no correlation to much lead you need to keep in contact with the bottom on the swing.

If I am fishing a section of water that I know has fish or is very very 'fishy', I will change lead constantly and change the speed of my drift and the angle of the cast so that I am presenting my offering at differnt speeds and differnt depths so I can try to figure out what the fish want.

[ 12-21-2001: Message edited by: RPetzold ]

The line feeding is a good point. I have started doing the same as well. I agree with you in that if they aren't taking the offering, but they are taking everyone else's, adjust the speed. I think too often, I get stuck in the trap of "oh it will be ok" "I just dont want to fool with adjustng the weight."

I saw on a recent post about Herzogg's video, and that speed was discussed. ( the faster the better ) I wish my wife would think to put that video in my stocking.

Man, you guys are working too hard. If jigs and baits under a bobber get hammered by fish when they are at half the water depth (and they do!) then who cares whether you are ticking away on the bottom every few feet. In fact you are probably fishing under the steelhead! Think about it....boondogging is a murderous technique on steelhead and salmon and rarely do you need to ever be even near the bottom.

As for leader length, again it makes less difference than some think. The best guide on Alaska's Situk River (Frank Deveraux) for years used straight corkies and leaders of only 6-9 inches length for spring steelhead. Many jig fishermen are going back to 12-15 inch leaders and are reporting good success.

If you bonk ol' Ike on the beezer with your lure or bait he hits it. It ain't nuclear science.

Thumper is right on.....Did all that "lot's of lead bit" cause I felt that the "feel of the bottom" was very important and to slow the bait down so the fish would get it.

WOW......the past 6 or 7 yrs., jig fishing and boomdoggin, has really changed the way my fishing is done.
1. Jigs work----big time!! Get "some of the more popular colors, use a sliding dink float, start shallow, 5-6 casts, then change depth, repeat....if that doesn't get a "take down", then change jig and repeat. ANY stopping, or change in the float movement.....SET THE HOOK!!!!! This was tough for me to do, cause of 35+ yrs. of wanting to "feel that bite"...

2. Boondoggin---Best done from a boat,but works from shore. Watched the "guides" use thier small motors for placement, the long leaders(2-5 foot), and lead some "no more than a 1/2" long", small baits, and bright colored lines.....catch lot's of fish.....I changed.....wow, oh wow!!!Have changed to 10' and 10 1/2 foot rods with a good spinning reel, 10 and 12 pound line, ...leaders from 8-12 pound line. Works for them, works for me!!!!!

"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

Yeah, I gotta agree with Drifter and Thumper in that I dont think that being in constant contact with the bottom is all that important. Granted, it does account for something, and there are times when you'd want to have "Just the right amount" of lead on, But I think that the old addage of having to bang the bottom for steelhead is way off base. The majority of my steelhead are caught under a float, and when I do drift fish, I very rarely have to use much more than a split shot or two. I'll usually only feel the bottom two to three times during the course of a drift. Anyhow, That's my.02, maybe I'm all screwed up, but it's been putting fish on the bank for me.

good tips. I am curious about this boondoggin stuff. from the way you described it, I take it as the long leader, light weight, and small corky technique used for summer conditions. Are you saying they use it in the winter? And those bright lines. I always wondered why people used those high Vis lines, seems like they would spook the fish.

Dont get me wrong, I catch fish with the lead on the bottom. I just want to be able to increase my fish catch. And I have considered adding float fishing to my arsenal. I have fished with fellow board member Buzzerbaby, and he does quite well with the technique. I want to set up a rod with braided line/mucilin. In the past my line always sank and pulled the float along. Plus I enjoy fly tying and like tying jigs

I don't use high vis line if you the guys in the back of the baot hit most of the fish. They use the high vis to keep tract of all those lines with one or two in the boat use UG or clear and hit more fish.

Hi All: Lots of different ideas lots of changes.
When I fish the Vedder I see most of the guys using float rods of 11 1/2 ' with their floats set at rod length,in water about 6 feet deep. They arnt float fishing they are bottom bouncing with a float,but some seem to catch fish. It seems to depend more on knowing the current paths than method of fishing.
When you talk to the old time float fishers they want their weight and bait drifting in the lower foot of water, and their float leaning downstream at 30 degrees throughout the drift. They free spool all the way down the slot. They say that in any water more than 4'deep the current at the surface is moving at twice the speed of the water at the bottom. To get a good presentation your bait needs to be a foot off the bottom to travel at the right speed in relation to the float speed. Holding back on the float only serves to pull it out of the slot and ruin your drift.
The more I watch the less I learn.
coot

If you think in relation to current speed how fast your gear is moving between float fishing and drift fishing, its different. Float fishing is presenting the jig a little faster than current speed where the fish are since the float is on the top. Water at the top of the river is moving faster than water on the bottom. The water is hitting the bottom and slowing it down compared with on the top. So I imagine drift fishing is going slower than current speed since it is in the slower water on the bottom and the lead is touching the bottom and slowing it down. Both techniques catch fish so I don't know if you have to worry about it too much.

~ Dr Pepper

[ 12-22-2001: Message edited by: Dr Pepper ]

I gotta say good post Ryan (geez, that's hard for me to say - jk ). I have found myself getting lazier in recent years as regards to adjusting lead to fit the situation. It really came to mind when I watched the good drift fishing video by Bill and Nick. 'Zog is of course right at the top among driftfishers and he likes to tick bottom every 10 feet or so. And they showed this with underwater cameras. I think in most situations I would agree with this presentation for steelhead (although chinooks respond a little better to a slower drift of eggs, thus I use a little bit more weight for them). But this isn't always best in all situations, thus I like Ryan's work ethic for adjusting weights frequently. If fish are present and not responding to the deeply presented bait/lure that is moving close to bottom and near current speed (maybe a timy bit slower) as with the recommendation by 'Zog, then next try lighter amounts to see if the fish are suspended off bottom a ways, which will sometimes be the case in murkier water when the mud and silt content moving along the bottom bothers the fish's gills and make them move up a little. If neither of those presentations work for fish present, then try adding more weight for a slow drift thru them. In this scenario I would recommend having a floating lure (corky, rag, SnG, etc.) with your eggs or shrimp so as to keep them up off bottom a few inches while the lead is moving slowly along right on bottom. It doesn't take that much time to be flexable and try these things out on fish that are there. Then follow the drift fishing by going to your jigs, hardware, plugs, etc. to see if you can entice a strike. Then go cover other water to make better use of your available time. My 0.02.

RT

Interesting subject. I find that when the float is leaning downstream (float above 12:00) and a fish hits I tend to lose more. Some bobber fishermen feel that's because the jig in that situation is drifting with the hook upstream, exactly wrong for an effective hookup. Think about it. I do know that when the float is being slightly retarded (and therefore drifts with the hook pointed upstream) the "take" is much more positive. That makes sense since the hook is now oriented in the right direction....or so it seems. I rarely lose a fish when it is hooked past (downstream of) 12 o-clock.

It seems to me that there is a consenus that fishing as much lead as alot of us do is not that necassary.

There is a techinque that the Stilly ole-timers practice that is known as drift-plunking. They literally throw up onto the bank with a large amount of lead and 'backbounce' there drift gear through the slot. The Stilly though is a very 'slotty' river where you have 1' foot of water 90% of the distance out and then it drops down to a 4'-8' slot. This type of water does not lend itself to the swing that well as once your gear starts swinging to the inside it is out of the zone.

On the other hand there are many rivers that have wide runs with a consistent depth across the river and these may be the rivers they fish better with less lead where you are swinging your gear in and rarely touching the bottom. How often do flyguys 'bounce' bottom while swining flies?? They catch fish...

Say, has anybody tried that tip sent into STS (by a reader) to The Real Spoonman and published in this last issue? The one with the hollow pencil lead on the spinner wire? I made one of them up and am going to try it out. Just wondered if any of you have tried it yet and if so, how it worked.

BTW RT, when did your member status go from Returning Adult to 'Wallhanger'? Do you have moderator control again? Oh boy here we go again...

<b>EDIT: OH MY GOD YOU DO HAVE MOD CONTROL! JUST SEEN YOU UNDER THE MOD LIST. WHEN DID THAT START? IS IT JUST WHILE BOB IS RECOVERING ( GET WELL SOON BTW BOB! )?</b>

[ 12-23-2001: Message edited by: Krome Brite ]

Hey KB, I'm just helping Corey and RR out with BB mod'in for a few weeks while Bob is recovering from major back surgery - which keeps people from being able to sit much at first. But while I have the 'buttons', I'm going to be watching you and Petz big time. jk, have fun

Ban me!! I dare you!!!

[ 12-24-2001: Message edited by: RPetzold ]

That's it Petz - you're outta here. ...


... Just kidding. What would we do without your knowledge and wit Ryan? We might relax a little better, but would miss your input big time. Happy holidays. - RT

[ 12-24-2001: Message edited by: RT ]

KB Just be glad there isn't an "Eisenhower" or "Ike" member classification .
Hmmm does "The Real Big One" fall in this category?

Gooose

Just bought some hollow core lead. I was going to gove that little trick a try when I come back for some fishing in Jan.

Although if the stretch is too snaggy I usually fish spinners

Let us know how that trick works then, steelheadaddict01.

BTW, I smell sh*tty!

Edit: Hey KB, we all have our challenges. No big deal, because you don't catch any girls anyway.

[ 12-26-2001: Message edited by: RT ]

gawd, RT, couldn't even go a whole day without editing somebody's post, huh? geez...!!!