cowlitzfisherman,
Not sure why you think F&G is for C&R. Bob Gibbons who heads the steelhead area of F&G is totally against C&R. as are his understudies. At the Vancouver meeting Bob stood outside helping a catch & kill advocate with his speech telling the guy not to say this but say F&G science is the real science, etc.
From reading your posts over the last year& half I have a lot of respect for your hard work in saving steelhead down your way but you are wrong about where the F&G stand on steelhead release.
As for the questionier, F&G had it put out by an independent group and did it not ask the Question; "If wild steelhead runs are healthy would you suport C&R state wide"? 61% said yes even if the runs are healthy, 34% said no, that's all most 2 to 1. That surprised me because I thought the question was biased for the catch & kill advocates with the healthy run bit in the question.
As for the barbed hook discussion I would agree it may make little difference on adult fish but a barbed hook in June and July on smolts going to the ocean takes it's toll would you agree on that.
Land Tuna.

Dan,

I fear that asking Boater to apply logic to his statements may be an exercise in futillity.

Jacob F,

There's that old tired arguement again. Since we can't do sh!t about nets, dams etc... why do anything at all?

How about this. Forget conservation, and all of the arguements pro and con posted above. Why not do it to:

1 - Simplify the regs.
2 - Add a little more challenge to the sport.

Surely, all of the "Expert Fisherman" here on this board should have no difficulty whatsoever maintaining their astronomical catch statistics.

[ 12-28-2001: Message edited by: 4Salt ]

There's still plenty of challenge, that's why they call it fishing and not catching...
Keith

Just fish with gammies, they hardly have a barb! Ain't that right Keith?

The last thing we need as sport fishers is one more rule governing hw we fish. We are already regulated to death as it is. There have been at least two different studies quoted. One supossedly said that barbless hooks help and the other supossedly said there was no difference. This needs to be a personal choice. One thing I have seen is that a barbless hook tends to penetrate deeper than a barbed one. If we go to a statewide ban on barbed hooks in the name of reducing mortality of wild steelhead then we also have to go along with eliminating the Mar-Apr C&R season specifically targeting wild steelhead! Afterall this is about conservation of wild steelhead right?
Sparky: You asked the question "What have you done for the fish lately?" I noticed you didn't mention what part you have played other than being a member of the WSC. Over that last four years I have been involved in almost fifty restoration projects in some form or fashion in Snohomish County through my job. I spend the summer hacking blackberries and reed canary grass and other noxious weeds. And spend the fall/winter either doing site prep, planting, or salvaging native plants to be used for restoration work. I have done work for the Snohomish Conservation District, Snohomish County Surface Water management, Adopt-A-Stream, Stilly/Snohomish Fisheries Enhancement Task Force, and the Lower Stilly Flood Control District. I do this not for any recognition. I do it for personal satisfaction and to mitigate some of my impact upon the environment by my existence in this world and the fact I like to fish.
I tried to get local fishers together earlier this year for a plant salvage in Machias and had a whole six people show. Why the small turnout? Because everyone had something else going on. That is always the story with us. We b****h alot but won't put our money where our mouths are. Just like the reference earlier about the lack of turnout for saving Reiter. I was involved in that as well. I wrote letters, emails, and attended the meeting in Snohomish with WDFW reps, two state reps, Bob Heirman, and Gary Bee. Compared to all that utilize the fish from Reiter it was a very small number of folks that went to bat for all and put pressure on WDFW to re-think their decision. I also spent two days Clipping fins to show we were committed.
Sorry for the rant folks but we need to concentrate on the things that can make a real difference: commercial by-catch, tribal exploitation, excessive population growth, and continued habitat destruction. When you look at the big picture the barbed-vs-barbless debate is but a very very small symptom of the much larger disease that affects all our wildlife resources. Not just steelhead!

Chumcatcher

If being a part of a “special interest” group that’s determined to preserve the legacy of wild steelhead by blending opportunity with conservation, I will gladly be labeled as such. It’s funny that those who are quick to shout special interest are really only interested in their own opinions and generally do not have any data to back up their statements. Granted the 4 “H”s have a large impact, but the only way to challenge those impacts is through a “special interest” organization and getting involved. But has an individual angler do you ever stop to think what are some the small practices you can change in your angling approach to benefit the fish and help preserve your opportunity for the future?

A scientific study in Canada concluded the following about barbless hooks:

"Data from BC indicate that wild steelhead release fisheries on winter steelhead stocks exert a minimal influence on the ability of the fish to spawn and refute claims that caught and released steelhead were effectively lost from the population. The following conclusions from the study were drawn:
Hooking mortality of steelhead ranged between 0 and 6 percent in 11 Canadian river basins over a 7 year period with a Province-wide average of 3.6 percent.
Hooking mortality of winter-run steelhead averages between 2 and 3 percent using barbless hooks, regardless of whether bait is used.
Barbed hooks appear to be the largest contributor to hooking mortality”

Remember this is referring to wild winter steelhead only, not summer steelhead, in the late spring and summer when kelts, wild smolts are present.

ok, here goes. first off i do not keep wild steelhead, when i go to a river i am in search of hatchery fish and in the rule book it states "release wild steelhead", so i do that, i release wild fish. 2nd, i do not target a river with a "catch and release for wild steelhead" season in effect. i am not a cnr fisherman for wild steelhead but i release them when i`m fishing for hatchery fish, to me a cnr season is for a group of people who like to cnr`s fish, i am not part of that group even though i release wild steelhead. to me statewide cnr is catering to a special intrest group, what is wrong with simply using the term "release all wild steelhead" ? when you see the term "release wild fish" in the rule book there is a reason for it, for people who think the 2 terms mean the same thing explain to me why the ocean rules this years stated "release all wild coho" instead of "catch and release all wild coho".

IMO, it wouldn't be "One more rule". It would be a few less rules. Barbless hooks in all rivers, year-round, statewide. Pretty simple huh? Now you won't need the pliers you forgot in the tackle bag, to release a fish. Now you won't kill that smolt or SRC that you accidentally hooked. Salmon or steelhead, hatchery or wild, doesn't matter. It's just plain easier to release fish from a barbless hook, PERIOD

Boater,

The mission statement excerpt you referred to does not refer to a desire to have fishing areas open year round to catch and release wild steelhead in year round.

It means that the WSC supports no open seasons, anywhere, anytime, for the direct harvest of wild steelhead in the state of Washington. If at anytime during the year a wild steelhead is caught, it should be released.

Time, place, and manner of possible catch and release seasons are other issues that are not addressed by that mission statement segment.

Fish on...

Todd Ripley
Vice President and Legal Advisor
Wild Steelhead Coalition

Land Tuna

Hooking any smolt with or without a barb is flat bad news for the fish! So why not close all fishing during the smolt migration time if we really want to protect wild steelhead? Then we all can have more time to figure out new fishing restrictions and rules!

Sometimes I think fish are gods! They are only fish! Wild fish have been exploited for years in an attempt to shop the over fishing by the commercials and Indians. Now so many people have forgotten that issue and are only fooling themselves. It all started when everyone was looking for a ways to stop the over fishing by the gill netters and the tribes.

Now it's become a personal issue with many people because it is "their cause". Don't take me wrong, it's a good cause; people just need to learn how and when to compromise.

When will the different sides ever get together and reason on the how we can have both a Kill fishery and c&r fishery at the same time? One real simple way that it could be done is to allow a very small limit of wild fish during the fishery. Let's say one or maybe 2 per year, per fishermen. Some will cry and say that you are "targeting" wild steelhead, but think about from the other point of view. That view also makes common sense. When a fishermen hooks a wild steelhead and the fish is bleeding badly (real badly) why release it when you know there is a 99% chance that it will die in short order? Don't even say it, because I know that the reply will be "It's 100% killed if you don't release it". There's not a true fishermen on this bb that has not hooked a wild steelhead and released it knowing that it was probably not going to make it. God, I can hear the c&r guys already screaming!

When will fishermen ever learn to compromise and work together? It seems to always be the "my way or the high way" when it comes to wild steelhead harvest. I suspect Salmo G. will jump in and reply even those we have had this same debate numerous times when is comes to Wild Steelhead and harvest. Differences of opinions are what make this such an interesting board. Who knows, maybe someday this bb will solve this problem.

Cowlitzfisherman

Is the taste of the hook worth the sting of the bait????

I am against it.I don't see why I should be restricted to barbless hooks,while chasing December hatchery fish on a river,the Skykomish,that is closed to fishing when the native fish return.
If the run of native fish is so fragile that the difference between fishing with or without barbs is signifcant to their survival as a species,maybe we shouldn't be fishing for them at all.

Many many excellent points from Double Haul, Land Tuna and 4-Salt!!!!

Secondly...


I am all for looking at the big picture and in fact I do as does the WSC but those are Wars and they take many many years and many thousands or even millions of dollars to fight so why not do something small where the positive effect on the fish greatly outways our sacrifice.

BTW-I would like to know your big plan when dealing with the Big Picture. There has yet to be anyone that has come along that has been able to find a way to fight the War.

[ 12-28-2001: Message edited by: RPetzold ]

UltimateFishCatcher and BK - you two crack me up! Those were some downright funny comments!

I don't think it will have any effect at all. I don't want any more restrictions on my fishing. PERIOD. Every year, sportsmen pay more and get less. If you guys are that concerned about the fish, than don't go fishing. I fish for the fun of landing a fish. The only benefit to barbless hooks is that it makes it easier to get the hook out. That's it. If you're dealing with hatchery fish that you're going to keep, who the hell cares. If you're dealing with natives, the time spent landing the fish is more damaging to them then the 1 or 2 seconds it takes to get the hook out so don't fish for them period.