Same thing happened about 14 years ago with my son. 140 lb dobie didn't like him sticking his fingers up his nose and snapped at him. Had his head in his mouth and drew blood just above his eye and the back of the head. I took the dog into the laundry room and beat the bejeezus out of him. I felt better anyway. He wasn't a bad dog, we just could not trust him anymore with the baby.

We have some friends that live out in the woods who's older kids were needing a guard dog. He was a prize dobie and they were happy to have him. We shipped him off the next day. He lived a long and happy life and was much calmer in the woods than in town. They finally put him down about 6 years later after he developed displasia.

Point is, the dog doesn't have to die. He just has to be around larger kids or no kids. Do you know if the baby had dog snot on his fingers? Seriously, I'd get rid of the dog. If you feel you have to shoot him, it's your dog. If he is a loved one and not generally mean, he might make a great pet for someone with older kids, and you could visit him. We enjoyed visiting ours.

phish phreak i understand where you are coming form but what the [Bleeeeep!] dude seriously! do you really want to shoot that dog that you have had for 5 years. Is that gonna make you feel like a man? i seriously doubt that after you shoot it you will be happy. why dont you take it to the shelter. if you can take an animal out that you have had for 5 years and just flat out shoot it, you have some issues. i understand if it has hurt your son but please dont go out and shoot it. GIVE IT AWAY! I have a rott/lab and we had that problem when he was a puppy snapping at my brother and sister. the other day my ndog snapped at me for trying to move him while he was eating. i hit him on the nose and grabbed him by the scruff of the neck and yelled in his face for about 30seconds and i gaurentee it wont happen again.
Tyler
P.S. What was he doing to provoke this attack.

[ 01-08-2002: Message edited by: Tyler Celli ]

Human life is much more important then any dog's life. Think about it...you are young and dont have kids (neither do I) so maybe you just do not understand where he is coming from.

If I had a dog and he snapped at a child of mine (if I had a child) my two options would be the ones that PhishPhreak put forth. The fact is that once a dog snaps like it did, it could do it again without warning.

The best thing for the dog and for the community is to put it down. The last thing you want to hear is about some kid getting killed because he was attacked by this dog some years down the road.

So unless he can find a rural home without children for the dog, the dog should be put to sleep.

Phish,

A sad situation all the way, but I'm with you on the walk in the woods thing. A LR22 hollow point, right between the eyes is all it will take and if the dog has never been threatend with a gun, he won't know enough to be upset by it before it's too late.

I worked on a dairy many years ago and we always put animals down with a 22, cows, steers, pigs, and yes dogs too, never had a problem!

Sorry for your kid though, hope he's better soon.

, sad thing for the kid, now he'll be scared of dogs forever..

Just point the gun in the general direction and BLAP,BLAP, BLAP... ARRRRRRRRUUUUHHHH
Or better yet, play a nice game of fetch with some pressure sensative C4.

No, really. I've had to put a few dogs down in my time and it's not the funnest thing to do.. But it comes down to paying a couple hundred bucks or give him the lead treatment for about a quarter. Or give the dog away to someone so it can happen again..
Keith

Phish,

I certainly understand your dilemma, and after what's happened in my household over the past month I think I can offer you a little insight.

About a year ago we adopted a beautiful, brillant 5-year-old German Shepherd from a man who felt he had to give him up because the dog nipped his 3-year-old daughter. Well, the dog behaved perfectly for us ... until just after Thanksgiving . In a period of 10 days, this friendly, even-tempered dog bit my wife three times, seemingly unprovoked. Fortunately none of the bites required stitches, even though we did make two trips to the emergency room.

My initial thoughts we along the same line as yours -- I had to get rid of the dog. But my wife, who's the daughter of a zoologist and has been around animals -- at times herds of them -- her entire life, was determined that we were going to do everything within our power to keep from putting that dog down. When possibilities of placing him elsewhere disappeared, our vet referred us to an animal behavioralist working with the college of veternary science at Washington State University.

After reviewing our case study and observing the dog first-hand, the doctor stated without hesitation that it was a dominance issue (she said that pure-bred dogs, like ours, are particularly susceptible to this type of behavior). Our dog had apparently bonded with me (not surprising, since I had spent more time with him) and was simply exerting pack-mentality dominance over my wife, putting her in her place, if you will. The doctor said this can be a real problem with dogs and young children, particularly toddlers in the early stages of walking.

She didn't pull any punches -- up front she told us that the safest, easiest thing to do would be to put the dog to sleep. However, she thought with proper training, and precautions, we could not only avoid destroying the dog, but could develop it into a loyal, submissive and obedient pet.

So that's where we are now. The carefree life our dog once knew has become a strict regimen of adherence to commands, leash-walking and kennel time. So far he has responded beautifully, and the doctor is pleased with our progress, though still cautiously optimistic. We're hopeful, but we'll just have to proceed and see what happens.

Being that we have no children, my situation is much more simple than yours. But if you maintain any hope of keeping this dog in your family I would ask your vet to put you in contact with an animal behavioralist somewhere in your locale. It is not an easy route, and it's certainly not cheap
... but in our case it was the only alternative shy of putting the dog down.

I hope this helps. I you have any questions feel free to send me an email.

Best wishes

JEB
SRBC East

There are many reported instances of non fatal headshots.I have seen one.Very,very messy.Skulls can be hard and lots of angles complicate things on occaision.A 22 may work most of the time but,a few examples is insufficient to justify the risk when a more appropriate solution is available.

Hopefully Phish can find the dog the right home with owners that understand the risk.I think that would be great.If not,he is still responsible for protecting his family and controlling the dog.

Please let us know the results.

Phish, We had our family dog {inside friend} of 15 years put down, liver failure. It's hard to do. I think I'd have a close friend put it down next time if I couldn't handle it. You don't know of someone with a gun? Know any Steelheaders? We all have guns. I agree, don't pass off a biter to another family. Would you want someone to go through what you just did? No, of course not. If I lived down there I'd help you out. Anyone live close to Phish?

DEAD DOG!!!!!!!!If my dog did that to one of my children he would have been DEAD on the spot...No point in blaming it on something ..the fact is human life is WAY more important than a dog!! BAR NONE!!!

phish,
im with the majority on this one, if youd rather take him for his last walk ive had too on a few dogs always used a 22 pistol headshot never had a problem also in snohomish county the pound will put one down free if its a biter personally id rather do it myself, hope all turns out well for your son the physical scars can be repaired i think the emotional scars will need some work also
good luck mike

A .22 will be plenty to put down a rottie. I have killed scores of 250 pound hogs, and a few cows with a .22 and .22mag. Picture and imaginary line that crosses between the base of the ear and the eye socket. Do this with each ear and eye. Where the two lines intersect, is the magic spot. He may yelp once, but it will be lights out, and he'll be dead on his feet before he can blink.

Shot a 250 black bear with a rifle in the same spot this fall, and his head was like a bowl of rice krispies. If you use a caliber higher then a 22, be careful shooting him at close range, or you may end up getting hit with fragments of lead after the bullet passes through his gourd. If you use a rifle, you are better tying him up, and greasing him with a high shoulder shot. The impact will shut his nervous system down pretty quick.

If the dog did that to my kid, I would have zipped him ASAP, and not given a rip about his feelings. As much as I love dogs, I have no tolerance for them ripping on my kids. Do not give this dog to someone else. You are just asking for someone to get hurt/killed, and getting your rump sued. Especially if you know that this dog has attacked someone already. Hate to sound like a mercenary, but unfortunately, I have sent lots of critters to meet their maker. Good luck, as I know it won't be easy.

I will go out on a limb and go the other way, it was not the dogs fault he felt like he was the dominate party. How many humans have done worse to a child and not been killed? How many mothers have killed their children and are free today? Call the shelter I have heard they have times when you can bring your pet in to be viewed people for adoption. It save the adopties the big fee and gives you a chance to "sell" your dogs good qualites. I had a friend do this and it went well. Put a sign up at the store or something, the dog does not deserve to die.

Awwwww, poor kid. The time to act with emotion was at the scene. Now you have to act like an adult. Baseball bats, bare hands and shotguns will leave more ugly memories that will hang in your mental attic for years. Good Gawd, what is with some of you guys? Yik....I cringe just thinking about some of those suggestions. But then, I am just a dumb gurl

Either shell out the money for a vet, take it to the shelter with a note that says "Child Biter", or take it on the walk in the forest. But you really cannot give this dog away. If it ever mauls another child, you'll have yourself to blame. If I took such a dog and it attacked my son, or someone elses child, I'd look to you to blame ( that's human nature, to blame someone else, you know? ).
Give your son a big hug. He's going to need a bunch of them for awhile.
diana. Mother of a 10 year old boy.

I think that its best to get rid of the dog now. Get off the computer find a shelter or a Vet
first thing in the a.m..Or you con go outside right now and just get the job done. That a baby
killer you've got. I am so tired of reading about
small children being killed by Dogs. No
second bits when it come to your child or any child.

Thanks everyone. I appreciate all your input.
If I would have been home at the time, I prabably would have killed the dog on the spot. As it was, I was just getting off work when my wife called. I met her near my work (which was on her way to the hospital) and drove like a madman to the ER. Taking a toddler to get stitches is a very traumatic thing for everyone. My wife does not handle it well at all. They have to probe around and inspect the wounds while the child screams and pleads and twists around... That's actually the easy part! Fortunately, we saw a very experienced plastic surgeon and Aidan was doped up for the actual stitches. We got home at about 1am - all very worn out.

Here's where we stand right now:

1) My wife has called a rottie pure bred rescue and is waiting to hear back from them. They handle much worse cases than ours with success. You just have to know what you are getting into.
2) if that does not pan out in the next few days, then this weekend we will need to take a drive out into the woods.

Thanks again!

PS - Aidan is doing well. He is acting pretty normal, even though his left eye is so swollen that he can't see out of it. The hard part is going to be keeping him from breaking open the stitches or getting an infection.

With some of the replies you might as well whack em with your computer!
No but on a serious note, do the right thing and put him down so it does not happen to anyone else.
Your child is very lucky!
The dog just made his last mistake, now do what you have to wether it is at the vets or in the woods, be responsible. I know you will.
Good luck and remeber you are doing the right thing.
Peace Superfly

As long as you hit him right a 22 is more than enough.
A 22 is what all the farm slaughter guys use on pigs and cows.
Not sure if you've seen them slaughter a pig, but after they bleed 'em and gut'em they hang them up and cut them in half right down the spine. You get a nice cross section of the skull, brain, and spinal cord. Anyways what I'm gettin at is that I've seen pigs with skulls an inch thick that were put down with a single shot from a 22.

Don't give the dog away to some shelter. Who knows where it's going to end up next. Yeah whoever they give it too might be good but what about after that. Gotta think about they're kids, and neighbor kids, and friends kids.

I am sorry to hear bout your sons injury, I carry a nice reminder of a dog bite as a youngster that i recieved from vicious dog a knarly beagle of about 15 pounds. s I am told now tht my dad wanted t tak the dog to the woods to let the dog witness the death of my dad, of self inflicted gun shot wounds for the careless act of leaving me in a position to do something I assumend was a ok thing to do pulling on the beagles tail as hard as a 3 year old could, beacause a properly trained dog, no matter the breed should still not be put in a position to have this happen. somehow have a hard time bliving that a dog even poorly trained is suddenly going to just snap at a child for no reason at all. You fail to fully explain the circumstances. Again with the breed you chose to have as your pet which we all know that means a responsability to properly care for, provide for and allow to be afforded a decent kind of life remember you chose the dog the dog did not choose you. I think it is poor judjement on your part for allowing yourself to bring a child into your home with a dog that has the reputation and physical ability to injure your much loved son in that manner and the potential for whatever reason put an end to your sons young life. Would it not have been better for all to take the dog toa no kill shelter, friends place, rott rescue of Wa state prior to bringing your son into this home. At that time you could have avoided the stigma of saying you now have a child biting dog that is never going to have a chance to get placed in a decent home. Instead you would have been able t say Great family dog gentle lovuing needs good home can no longer keep due to birth of young son and want to be extra carefullof my childs safety. We allknow how kids can be and no one would think any less of you for doing it. It shows your love as a father and your respect for the breed of dog you have and its potential. I mean no disrespect for you and your family and to anyone on this board for their opinion. If you decide to get rid of this dog do it properly it had no idea of the magnitude of what its actions resulted in. You can email me at fishnjunkie@webtv.net, and i will take your dog myself and find it a good home, all that i ask is that a medical history and shots are updated. I hope your son gets well quickly, think dad needs to take son out to the rivers and hook into a nice brat and watch him forget about his injury for at least a few minutes.

Dear P.P.,
I am the daughter of the zoologist mentioned by my husband in a previous posting. I am ambivalent at times about keeping our dog, but he has responded remarkably to our "treatment plan". We are guardedly optimistic that we can keep him safely in our home with a lot of work and patience.
The behavioralist we visit says that toddlers are especially threatening to a dog's pack mentality simply because of the way that they are built (all torso) often unsteady on their feet and unpredictable in actions. I was bitten in the face as a toddler by the dog I had until I was 16 years old, I had stepped on her swollen teat in my nice hard orthopedic shoes when she was sleeping. I would have bitten me, too! My father wanted to shoot her ... she lived until the age of 17 thanks to my mother, who was also nursing at the time and refused to allow the dog's demise.
Consider rescue agencies or childless couples who are knowledgable and willing to deal with a possibly aggressive dog. It doesn't sound like this is the case with your Rott, however.
I would encourage you, before making any decisions to contact W.S.U at 335-0711 (if that number is incorrect, call information for Pullman, WA and ask for the Vet Clinic). They do telephone consults for a marginal fee.
They have been helpful to us and our dogs. Our "problem" dog has been a delight since beginning this program, the onus, as always, is on us.
Good luck to you, I'm glad your son is going to be OK and I hope the same for your dog.
Tracy
Please contact us by email if you would like further info!
PPS. PLEASE go out TODAY and buy a "Promise" or "Gentle Leader" brand harness-type collar and put it on your Rott. Have the people who sold it to you help you fit it. It works as kind of a modified muzzle. The dog can eat, drink, fetch and all that good stuff but it does keep him from gaining a good purchase if he does bite again. Also reinforces his submissive position in the pack. Our dog HATED it for the first few days, but the change in his behavior was almost instant, (like within 10 minutes) he immediatly began responding to me in a more reasonable and submissive manner. It's a 10 dollar investment for peace of mind until you can place your dog. You can get them at most pet stores, possible grange supply stores.

[ 01-09-2002: Message edited by: JEB ]

Phish,
I talked to my buddy who has Rotts and he wasn't very sympathetic to the dog...He agrees that you probably are prolonging a problem if you try some type of rehab.
I'm sorry for the trauma that this has brought to you and your family.
It would break my heart to have to make that decision for my dog.
It DOES disturb me to see how eager some board members are to discuss the method and equipment to use("Sheeatt Bubba....Git out yer Desert Eagle!)
I see it as a loved and trusted family member who made a big mistake.
Best wishes for your sons' recovery.