Hello fellow rod'nreelers,
I got a novel idea about how we can ban together and take some nets out of the water and it goes like this................
(1) Buy a truck load of hay
(2) Find a bridge local to the nets
(3) Park in the middle of the bridge
(4) Fall out and throw all bails over the bridge

Make sure to do this in the middle of the night.

The reasons for this post:
I work nights and that means I start work in the afternoon and one day this week I decided to have a bite at a local park and walk the river (the Green). with eyes glued to the water I started seeing nets zig-zagging tthrough about a quarter mile stretch of the river. It blew my mind!!!! This is why I haven't seen but two fish caught out of Palmer-Kanaskat all Winter. We are seriously being screwed out of OUR->(Indians and non-Indians) rights and priveleges. When will the Indians be as equal as you and I in the OUR->(Indians and non-Indians) laws.
I have a friend that is Native American and I used to banter to him how unfair it was that he didn't have to use a rod and reel and that we were not as equals in the Federal laws as the (Bless that piece of paper) Constitution commands it to be. You know what he would say to be a dictionary in the rear pocket type person " Wow it sucks to be you, I am gonna check my nets". Any how follow the afore mentioned steps and of yeah talk to a Senator or Legislative type person and they can fix this for us (yeah right).
Until then think happy thoughts as you see bails of timmothy floating down your favorite river and wish that bound together grass luck in smashing through as many nets as possible before getting beached.

[ 01-17-2002: Message edited by: PAUL FEHR ]

[ 01-17-2002: Message edited by: PAUL FEHR ]

thats a kick ass idea...we need to hook up and look into this, i live near the green too...i was sick this fall when i saw the f$#@%n injuns waste a load of coho this fall. they were selling whole coho (hatchery and wild, i saw both) on the side of the road in tukwila for $2.00 each...on my way back to my truck from fishing later that afternoon i saw they had left and dumped their fish on the side of the road and went home. there were easily 60 - 80 fish left to rot in the dirt...i talked with an old timer a few days later and he told me that they dont want to pay to dump them so they leave them for the city to clean up...he also said he has seen this happen for many years

you are missing the point. it is illeagle to do that. what would you say about some indian burning your house because he doesn't like something you do. if you dont like netting, why dont you do something about changing the rules.you are an uninformed pussy.

[ 01-17-2002: Message edited by: bardo ]

Great Idea. Where is a cheap place to pick up a bail of hay or two or dozen. Also, what are some good bridges throw from. One more thing, Bardo, what are you talking about?

its not about not liking fishing, actually the opposite...

as far as changing the rules, isnt that a dead issue? im sure im not the only one

i gues i am talking about you too. whats your address? i'll come visit you. ( i guess i must have some indian blood in me )

whats your tribal affiliation Bardo??

i am a non denominational tribal fisher. i do not condone the use of nets and or special seasons for indians. but seeing as how the white man stole the land and game from the indians originally , i think they do have their legal right to the fishery. its a complex issue and i dont think hay bales are the answer. i think the answer is to eventually make everyone equal. i think the indians would have to be paid money or land to take away their fishing rights.

At the rate the indians are going you wont have fish to barter with soon! No fish, no land and no money. Hmmm, guess it will be time to get back to the "real" cerimonial ways.

Bob D

maybe we should move to the kamchatka peninsula. the only thing we would have to worry about there is the grizzlies.

Paul, congratulations, you have seen the light.

You have witnessed the reason why we pay higher property taxes and have endangered fish runs.

The fish runs are not depleted because of el nino, his sister, pollution, "poor ocean conditions", or all of the other B.S. we are led to believe. The fish runs are depleted because of one thing, NETS.

I fish the Green regular basis, a lot of the time by boat, and I know what you are talking about.

The hay bale is a good but old idea and I have even seen a few bobbing up and down on the Green like beacons in the night.

If you want to draw attention to the netting you can start by showing every person (property owner) that you know what is going on. Every person that I have shown became outraged by what they saw.

Don't expect any help from the media or the government they are all part of the tangled web! You can witness this just by stopping by the Muckleshoot launch (4th Ave and E Marginal) and see the WDFW boat and truck parked in the Mucklshoot holding pen. They are in bed together.

Another good place to witness Indian affairs is on Hood Canal. It is even worse over there.

Fishhead5

Bardo I'm with you. All this anti-Indian venting aint gonna do squat. I thought when I saw "kill the netts" it would be a productive discussion on how sporties can band together and get non-tribal commercial nets out of WA waters. At the very least the tribes help produce salmon and steelies that we catch and release/eat. I'm sorry I even opened the thread.

P.S. Let the flaming begin...

Let's ban them all then. Commercial, tribal, all of them. Buh-bye.

How are we going to do this hay thing to the white commercial nets in the big lake? Duck

Can't get them with the hay out there. That's why we're shipping in manatees and dolphins.

Throwing the hay bales isn't going to solve the problem but it should piss a few of them off and if we can't kill em we can at least piss em off. Great idea

Wow, what can I say, I'm simply blown away by this "discussion." A poster who goes by the handle "ExtermiNATIVE"??? And I suppose you think Hitler had a few good ideas. Please people, get a grip. Think about *responsible* things you can do to improve your fisheries and stop trying to lay blame on a single easy target. The decline of fish runs is a multifaceted problem: habitat loss from development, bad logging practices, pollution, overharvest, the list goes on. You all know this, but clearly frustration is clouding judgment. Rather than ***** about it, go out and do something legal and beneficial. My own response has been to get active with a few conservation orgs that I believe in.

#1 - I'll bet that all things considered, this site would be better off if we didn't use it as a soapbox to propose illegal actions in the name of recreational activity. As much as we cherish the right to fish, I think we diminish any public support we might have if we go off like a bunch of irresponsible teenagers and destroy someone else's property.

Just because we don't like that fact that they have a legal right to do something we can't, and it cuts into our sport, doesn't justify your proposed actions, especially in the eyes of people (the majority) that don't sport fish and in most cases don't give a rip about the resource.

#2) I wonder where the money comes from to pay for those nets destroyed by malicious acts? Could it be federally insured? I don't know, but the potential irony there would be pretty harsh.

hey guys the only problem with the hay bale idea is that after it takes out a couple of nets and then gets water logged and sinks it'll get stuck on the bottom of the river,and it doesn't stop killing the fish

FISH ON!!!

Well Bardo I my self a quarter Choctaw Indian and choose not to absorb any benefits from my heritage. I am not saying "KILL" anyone. The fact of the matter is that the trail of tears dried up many years ago. How long should should they mourn the loss of our heritage? How long should a human mourn the loss of another human?....... Anyhow that is another tangent not meant for this site.
All I am trying to succeed in by eliminating nets physically is SAMENESS. DR. Martin Luther King Jr.(yet another great American) wrote about it in his letter from an Alabama jail. I do not have any words to actually quote from that transcript. but you should get an idea what SAMENESS means from my little example sentence below:

I got a rod and reel in hand, everyone else should only have a rod and reel in hand.

THe United States Government has more than compensated the tribes for their persecution. Remember we escaped the wrath of England, where is our checks in the mail????? God this would be a great trailer to Affirmitive Action rip...... but this is a Fishing website.


ENUMCLAW IS A GREAT PLACE TO GET HAY. JUST DRIVE DOWN THE PICKLE FACTORY ROAD AND YOU WILL SEE THE SIGNS. ALSO PICK UP A COPY OF THE COURIER HERALD AND THEIR WILL BE ADVERTISEMENTS "HAY FOR SALE".

oh yeah guys the Indians do own and run hatcheries on alot of rivers....................... but so do we. Where is our nets?????

You know everytime I see that picture of that indian with a tear comming down his cheek, you know the one about us hurting the land? It makes me want to VOMIT!!! IF it wasn't for us sportsmen there wouldn't be, 1 elk, 1 deer, 1 duck, or 1 salmon left! They have shot herds of elk at FEEDING stations in the wintertime because they know we can't do anything about it. I have pulled nets with ROTTING!!! STEELHEAD in them. Last Nov I went to a lake and saw a pile of coho, all with net marks, dumped at the launch! So don't cry to me about taking their land from them. They were raping it long before we showed up. Where do you think they got Eagle feathers? Walmart? Wolves skins? Kmart? Just go to a Res and look at all the trash on the ground! Motor oil, antifreeze, houshold garbage, paint, ect. ect! I drove through an indian housing delevopment,(Nicer homes than most full time working whites own, which we paid for) and they were dumping their garbage in the creek!!!! Living in harmony with nature huh? Bardo, I to have indian blood in me but this crap the Feds and Boldt started is wrong! I choose to be differant and have some Pride! and so do you, so why don't the Nations have some pride they so often yell about? Why rape our resouces till there gone?

G-MAN, you took the words right out of my mouth!

AS FOR THE EXCUSE ABOUT US (WHITES) TAKING THE NATIVES LAND, WELL HOW ABOUT THE NATIVES MAKING WAR AGAINST ANOTHER TRIBE AND KILLING THERE WOMEN/MEN/CHILDREN ALL IN THE NAME OF TAKEOVER? SAME DIFF AND ANYONE EVER GO THRU ENUMCLAW AND SEE ALL THE TRASH ON THE MUCKLESHOOTS HUSING/LAND, ITS A MESS!!! ANYONE KNOW HOW TO STARVE A INDIAN? HIDE HIS MONEY UNDER HIS WORK BOOTS!!! ITS THE TRUTH THO...GOVERNMENT ASSISTED LIVING..

Ok guys I just got to say this since it was my post.......DO NOT TAKE VIOLENT ACTION. Please and thank you for letting me know I do not stand alone on this subject.

I have noticed during my encounters with the so-called Indians on the Green that very few of them are, to the naked eye, actually Indian.
I swear some of those guys probably claim "tribal rights" because they are F'ing some chick who is Indian.

Go figure!

ive seen a lot of white indians too Carl...i wonder how many of them would claim their indian heritage if they only had the same rights as everyone else instead of the "special" indian rights...

I don't know about down there but up here a guy I know got caught throwing bales of hay off the bridge by a deputy sheriff. He was ask what he was doing and he replied, "I'm throwing hay in the river" The deputy replied, "hurry up and get off the bridge" I guess hay is an organic, natural material and thus it's not considered littering? The guy had several bales in his PU and finished the job! I asume the deputy knew why he was throwing them in the river but couldn't cite him for anything. Also it was 2 in the morning.

Save a Nate
Bonk a Native!!!

I'm still laughing about that one



Fishhead5

Bardo,
I've heard of a recent finding of a body. it dates back older than the indians. They think it looks like a caucasian body . Could it be the indians stole the land from the vikings? Also how has land been taken over since the begining of time? WAR! I have seen something that has made me so sick i almost went over to fight the tribal netters. I think it was october i was down on lake washington at the boat launch in kenmore the first day it opened for silvers and they were everywhere! i had about 5 hook ups. the next day i went back down and there were no fish anywhere. then i see the tribal fishers coming to the boat launch. we find a few stripped carcasses here and there.we confronted them about it and they got really defensive and started saying my friend and i couldn't catch fish. i called wdfw 4 times but those Q***RS wouldnt do anything. i have the whole thing on videotape if you want to see it. I could go on for days about this subject!

Tyler

BAN ALL NETS!!!!!

Think about where the so called native Americans came from.I think its traced back to a land bridge from another continent thousands of years ago.Looks to me like it wasnt their land that they are getting paid for to start with.Maybe they should have to pay all that treaty money back with interest.Now theres rumors of ancesters of slaves seeking compensation.If we go back far enough in history almost everybody has an ancestor that got screwed by somebody.Do we compensate everybody,or do whats really right and cut the crap and give all people truly equal rights?

As for the "tribal" hatcheries, they are designed, built, stocked, and for the most part run, by our government for the benefit of the tribe.

I suppose that all of you who'd like to see nets banned would like to see them replaced by mariculture ~ hel! a few more pens couldn't hurt much. Look at the facts and you will see that there is a demand for fish. These fish must come from somewhere and no matter where they come from there will be consequences. I'd rather see 20 gill nets then an outbreak of Gyrodactylus salaris in pacific waters (which is linked to the re-stocking of Atlanic salmon in Europe). If you compare netting with maricultured salmon then you'd stumble across some startling information: I bet you'd like the sounds of a few nets. As for throwing a hay bail into an indians net that shouldn't even have been brought up on this board. I read the profile for Paul Fehr and it said your into survival. That should come in handy because if it was my net you'd better remember everything your daddy ever taught you.

Taking action along the lines of throwing hay bales in the river is akin to the tactics used by E.L.F. and our friends the Anarchists. I'm sure they view burning down research labs and ransacking Starbucks shops in EXACTLY the same way you're looking at tossing hay bales. While I would consider your cause more just than theirs, the ends still doesn't justify the means.

I'm still hoping for research (hey, I don't care if it's valid research ) that shows eating salmon and steelhead (even the roe) will make your pecker go limp. Not only would men stop eating it, they'd stop their wives from eating it.....'case that $hit's contagious! Demand falls, prices collapse, and we're swimming in fish. Since it would take forces beyond human comprehension to debilitate MY pecker, I'd be the happiest guy you ever laid eyes on.

I wouldn't recommend taking the law into your own hands. Not only will you regret it if you get caught, but you couldn't possibly throw enough bales to make a difference in the long run. Besides, replacement nets are easy to come by.

the hell with the research, i can prove it is true. why do you think i've been married three times?
it's got to be all the fish. i have a choice, quit fishing or give up women. guess which one?

If the netters would reduce their netting from 24 hours a day 5 days a week (we get the other two days, ya!) to 24/3 or even 24/2 we would see a lot more fish in the rivers.

Hey Brad,

Third time's a charm (for both of you).

Andy

right on andy. check out my new technique on quinalt plunking. we'll have to try it

Bardo, --- Shame on you,,,,,,you're just 'funnin' the boys aren't you?? By the way, you should capitalize Indian. Where the hell is Union, and how's your helicopter working?
'Fishers', when we go to C&R where will we get our fish for the BQ's?

from farms
tyler

tyler, hang on to that tape, i have an idea and will email you.

periwinkle , but of course. why is everyone so darn serious. I would rather look at a few nets, than 200 fishermen standing side by side trying to catch a fish. union is 53.8 statute miles sw of your house and 115.41 road mile . on beautiful hood canal next door to the skokomish Indian reservation. sometimes i even herd salmon like cattle ( from the chopper )into the indian nets. its kind of like being on one of those old west cattle drives. I would rather see them net all of those fish. because the fish dont go up the rivers. they just swim around and die in the canal in front of my house. then i have to smell rotted fish for weeks. its really disgusting.the pentagon has taken samples of these rotted fish and are trying to develop a stink bomb to drop over afganistan. they figure no one could live under those conditions and osama would move away.
( there is actually a small amount of truth in the last statement)

my reply is gone

guys,the problemis not the nets itself.its the MISMANAGMENT BY THE WDFW.On a previous post,where would you go on a guided trip,a lot of you responded by saying the lower quinault.By far the most heavily netted river in our state,yet they have a outstanding fishery.the reason is managment of the fishery,they put fish back.we have several hatchery's idling because of lack of funds(so they say).i can't talk about the green(don't know anything about it)but its like a wallet.if you keep taking money out of it and don't refill it, it's empty.their is no reason other than pure MISMANAGMENT,THAT THERE IS A LACK OF FISH in our states fishery.If we go ruining nets,we have to pay to replace them.take the hump for example the tribe footed the bill for the next hatchery plant.the queets,planted by the tribe from the salmon river.also the white commercial net fishery does more damage then any set net could ever do.start writing letters to the dept.of shame,tell them what you think instead of wasting money on hay bales.scott

Thank you scotty, a man brave enough to look at the truth!!!

Mis-management? More like no management. It is a free-for-all if you have a net.

Question for all? Has this been the best year you've had in the last ten? Regardless of nets, El Nino excuses, habitat and hatchery fish genetic issues, ad nauseum? Lot of beetcthin but the reality from my end is that we're having a banner year....maybe mothernature just doen't give a "phuch" about our complaints and has graced us with more fish than a guy could ever catch? Did you have a problem catchin yoour limits of salmon when they were runnin? What? Yes? So whats the problem? Don't get me wrong I don't like any bodies nets in the rivers. I'm havin a glorious year on all species and the nets are there same as last year and years before.

Gooose

yes, it may be true that sinking nets with wont solve the problem and that new nets will be found and used. However, if we take out the nets for a week then that will be a damn good week of fishing. Its only a temporary solution, but if used enough we might get a good couple of weeks out of every season. Also, washington is a far better producer of hey that gill nets. I think at a couple of dollars a pop we can fight this one out. Maybe the Indians (that do practive gillnetting) should get a taste of reality and realize that they are not special for any reason and special rights are a joke. I say its time to dissolve these treaties for the sake of salmon and stealhead. Until then, we can take things into our own hands

rcl187 I know him and his daddy. Sounds like pretty bold talk for someone that is from Sedro-Woolley. You may be writing a check you can't cash. Lighten up, this is America, home of the free, land of the brave and where opinions can be expressed freely. If you have ever seen the nets on the Green any reasonable person would agree that it is rediculous.

The majority consensus is that nets suck, big time.

Is there something about this post that you don't understand.

Captain - over and out!

Well, I believe this thread has run its course. Not because of the topic of netting in itself, rather because of the the encouragement of illegal activites, slurs, and even 'threats'.

'Nuf said, this thread and the Sheriff are headed to bed.