Kevin...sorry man but you are full of [Bleeeeep!]!!! Kitzhaber is only part of the problem. The phucking republican controlled house and senate are another huge part of it. If you knew anything about politics you would realize that the executive and legislative branches are co-equals! This was the governors move and now it up to the legislators to counter. Lawsuits will be filed and it's doubtful that the hatcheries will close as earlr as 7/1. To put the blame on the governor alone or even most of the blame is naive Kevin.
Stick with Steve and I though sonny and will will learn you right

I posted this on the other board under a fee post:

Giz...

The answer is not to simply raise license fees. Look what happened in Wash. just a few years ago. The state raised fees, added special warmwater, salt water, crab, clam etc licenses. Guess what! there is a point of diminishing return. People just stopped buying the license and turned their back on the sport and find other ways to pass the time.

Now the state of Wa. has lowered the fees, combined all licenses into a fresh or salt water and now they are selling more licenses and even the out of staters find it attractive to buy a 2 day license for a reasonable fee. Now if they would only figure out that if you sell someone a 2 day license that should also cover the fee to park at the areas people need to access the rivers.

When are the states going to stop overcharging and use some volume pricing tactics to attract more people to the sport. This in turn would generate additional funds.

I stopped camping in OR when they added a $2 surcharge if you where from out of state. For several years, I stopped buying an Or. non-resident license. Just too much to take the family for a one day outting.

Its time that the powers to be realize that increasing fees is not the automatic answer to funding shortages.

Also, I have not seen any reports on how much money is taken in for the hunting and fishing licenses sold in Or. How does this income compare to what the state expends for the fishing and hunting program in the state. Also how much tax money...ie hotel taxes...are collected and returned to the fisheries prg that is generated by fishers. What about the fines collected by game violators. Why does many of the $$ go to the "general fund" instead of for the fisherys.

Its like any gov't...don't look around and see what works that's too easy. Let's spend $$$ and do studies and invent our own wheeel. If this type of mentality would stop, our tax $$ would go a lot farther than they do instead of by funding studies and consultants that "borrow your watch to tell you the time"...

Has anyone asked how many special studies are being funded or how many retired employees are being called back and paid as special consultants at some enoromus fee...??? or just the number of consultants that are hired when we are paying for state workers to do the job.

Find out the answers to these ??? and you will find out where the $$$ are dissappearing..Plug up these leaks and see how many $$$ we have to fund worthwhile programs and programs the people want, not the ones the politician want to fund because they or there friends somehow benefit.

Just my .02

Giz...

I spent several years auditing State governments who received federal funds for criminal justice programs. It is amazing the amount of wasted taxpayers $$ because of the above practices. I venture to guess that these are still happening in government funding of programs that result in waste of our $$$.

Giz..

Seacat, if you and I keep this up, we're going to have to hug each other, and that won't be pretty...

Your point on the givernment doing the best it can is close, but not what what I think. Rather, I tend to think that the givernment does as best as can be expected, given the constraints impose by the struture of our society. I think the government is made up of people, who, being people, are human. Some of them are good and skiled, some of them are not so good, and not so skilled. I would be so rash as to say that government bureaucracy attracts fewer of the really intelligent, really creative people, for two reasons: it pays less, and bureacracy stifles creative, intelligent folks. This is the nature of government. Has been for literally thousands of years, since the Egyptians.

So my point is, while it may be fun to p1ss and moan about it, bashing the government for being less than creative and in particular less than creative than private industry misses the obvious: government will always be less creative than private industry, because we pay government bureaucrats less and abuse them. Anyone any free spirit is likely to want to stay in private industry.

So, my belief is that intelligent people should expect rather less productivity and creativity out of government, because there is virtually no incentive for government to be creative. We punish our legislators if they think out of the box. After we have done that for 20 years, do we expect them to avoid punishment? Of course we do. So they do what the average voter asks them to, rather than what they are paid to do. Which is, to gather facts not available to the common voter, and, using those facts, figure out what the wise course is to support the populace at large, not just the 37% that voted in the last election.

So what does that mean for us? It means that if we think we know more than the government, that that may well be true, but we have to get off our collective butts and do something productive with the knowledge. That will likely mean trying to educate our legistators on an issue, and in turn, opening our minds to be educated ourselves that the issue may be more complex than we initialy believe.

Now, this all said, I agree with your foul ball call on the enhancement fee, but I suspect there is more to it than meets the eye. It may be as simple as this: in private industry, we can forge a contract where I pay you a set fee for maintenance of a service. We negotiate the fee, and if the fee isn't enough you to provide the service, you incur a loss. Well, in government, in doesn't work that way. In the long run, government can't incur a loss. Any loss that the government incurs, eventually comes out of the pockets of the people, or the government becomes insolvent, and a complete breakdown of society occurs. It may ssimply be that the enhancement fee hasn't covered the costs, or it may be that the state has apporpirated the funds to cover other service. I don't know. I do know that, at the root of the problem is theissue that the state is trying to spend for more things than it has money for.

Isn't it time to go fishing yet?

How about Kitz over riding the will of the people by forcing ODFW to take out an additionall cut from the Gen Fund to offset the "untouchable" Lottery dollars. Just as he did when the measure was initially passed.

Remember Stew your hands stink when you fling [Bleeeeep!].

That was a time well spent going to the meeting.

Shane I realize that this is a 2 way street at the capital. I just am peeved by Kitz live or die attitude and his willingness to put our resources and comfort on the line over idealolgy.

This just isnt sad, this is a tragedy. Loosing all those hatchery fish. For as long I as can remeber fishing hasnt been involved in politics. You all talk about whose fault it it and how bad things will be, well dammit stop arguing and start thinking of ways to fix this. For exaple 2-5 days a year every tackle shop in oregon, even the ones with only worms or eggs for sale donate total benifits for that day[s] to hatchery programs, or we get sponsors from all over oregon to help out And we hold banquet dinners. these are the things we need to be talking about, any other ideas.

Silver,

No hugging! And no singin' folk songs around the camp fire either!!

On your point about having fun bashing government, well, I'm not really gettin' a big thrill out of recognizing some of the basic deficencies that you and I basically agree on. Even though grass roots poilitics still exists, I believe that it gets the "Roundup" applied to it by special interests and back room deals. Not sure we can effect any change there. I think that the NMFS and the WDFW are examples of government going through the motions, taking public input in a limited fashion at public meetings and then stiking deals behind closed doors. What comes out of those deals usually doesn't make a lot of dollars and sense for the state at large, but it does for a few influential few. Just my opinion.

"Now, this all said, I agree with your foul ball call on the enhancement fee, but I suspect there is more to it than meets the eye."..."It may ssimply be that the enhancement fee hasn't covered the costs, or it may be that the state has apporpirated the funds to cover other service."

Probably a little of both, but it's still a bum deal to the Puget Sound chinook program, which btw has been on an upswing in the past few years. I believe that the enhancement fee was a key factor in that upswing.

"Isn't it time to go fishing yet?"

Oh ya!

Hey RT have you heard anything new about the proposed closure? I don't understand why they can't come up with the money to fund this. Seems like there is all sorts of money for stream inhancement around here, $5.1 M for west sound streams and rivers here on the Kitsap Peninsula and over on the east side of the OP. I don't understand why they can spend all this money on stream inhancement and all of a sudden there is no money for operating hatcheries.

I haven't Steel'. As it now stands, these hatcheries are set to be closed July 1st. I still think this may be a political pawn by Gov. Kitzhaber to force and emergency session in June, which seems likely now, to re-address these budget issues. I can't think of any other reasonable reason to concentrate the closures near the metro area of Portland, and to devestate the economy in one area of the north coastal towns!!! Even if they were to save a little more money by opting not to close a couple of the other candidates, this will cause a downfall of state tax revenue from the then economically hurt north coast! It would venture to say that the lower revenue could offset the savings from those 3 closures. IT MAKES LITTLE SENSE! Got to be political, in attempting to get a new session to come up with dollars elsewhere - where the Gov. would prefer. There is still $65 million dollars in the general fund from the state lottery that can be used, but the admin. is adamant about not wanting to use any of that. WHY? The reasons aren't clear or good enough.

And this is not only a fishing issue. There are a lot of other needed programs for struggling people out there! Stay tuned.

RT

According to Oregon State Senator Ryan Deckert in response to an email I sent to him:

I believe good news will come (in June) regarding the proposed hatchery closures. You are right - the closures would be a disaster for the north coast - and a bi-partisan group is meeting to find the $ to restore those hatcheries. I will not support an ODFW budget that contains the proposed cuts should it reach the senate floor in early June.

Again, thank you...

Ryan Deckert

Senator Ryan Deckert
Washington County - District 4
900 Court St NE, S 314
Salem, OR 97301
503-986-1704 - office
503-986-1080 - fax

I know this is a passionate topic and some believe we and the native fish would be better served if these hatcheries were to close. I disagree about sports angler being better off without these hatcheries
Tillamook county will not be either!
The wild broodstock programs on the Wilson,Nestucca and Siletz river wild broodstock program s a step in the right direction also.
Those of you that read this board and are from Oregon need to hammer away at our state lawmakers.
I emailed several of them including Charles Starr and Bill Witt DID NOT respond
Stew