Hey I'm up for a discussion on this subject. I get lots of requests for info and have my own ways of dealin with it. Some is easy and I freely give a response. Others I evaluate the asker....yes members gooose is very cautious about who gets what info. I evaluate your personalities and behaviours on this board. So far I'm 110% in locating new fishing partners using this method. And I would like to think I have helped several guys 110% gain in their techs and knowledge. I don't give out what will hurt me or my friends but I am always willing to help within reason. So lets talk?

This has been my first year steelheading. I have talked to numerous people who say that it took them a year or it took them two years to hook their first fish. My 3rd trip out (december)fishing for steel hooked up 2, since then i have been out every weekend except one. Here i am now 5 for 14, and dont think I would have hooked one if it wasnt for the people on this site and others.

So to everybody that has helped me at one time or another THANK YOU!!!!!! Couldn't have done it without cha!!!

Thanks
Tyler

Gooose, I've been waiting for this one. As someone fairly new to the board, I feel that I can relate to this thread.

There appears to be a good-old-boys network here that is unwilling to share any information outside their own group. Part of me can understand this and another part gets POd. The following is from the POd part:

While I can understand the desire to protect the resource, I cringe at the thought of discouraging new members. Here is a radical thought to ponder:

The only way to protect the resource is to encourage more fishermen to get active in the fishery.

90% of the fish are caught by 10% of the fishermen, right? What does that mean? 90% of the fishermen got skunked! Those 90% pay their taxes, buy their licenses and go out once or twice a year and don't catch anything!! To add insult to injury they are being ridiculed by the 10% who have the knowledge to help them.

So why should the 10% catching all the fish care? Politics!! The 10% catching all the fish are screaming to protect THEIR resource while the 90% that are getting skunked either a) think the fishery sucks and think all fishing should be banned or b) don't care and don't want their tax dollars wasted on entertaining the few a-holes that catch all the fish and ridicule them for not knowing how or where to catch them.

I maintain that if we care about the fishery, our goal must be to enable as many people as possible to get out and catch fish! Politicians will vote to protect recreational fishermens' rights over commercial and tribal fishermens's rights when their constituents tell them what is more important by voicing their opinions to them.

We all say we want to protect the resource, but when push comes to shove, and tax dollars are on the table, who is going to vote to spend money on fish: a) the 10% enjoying the resource? or b) the 90% that got skunked AND insulted? This is a democracy so who loses?

Guess what gooose is trying to say is "PAYING YOUR DUES". Been fishin for over 30'odd years and will share alot of information, but, can't exactly hold ones hand to crank the reel, bait the hook, motor boat, tell you to wear your baseball cap on backward. All fisherpeople will never give up alot of their best kept secrets and if they post they don't, their lying. There is a lot of very good info. on this BB and no one is trying to miss lead anybody intentionally.

Robert

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"DO THE WILD THANG"

having been chasing steel for over 30 years and having had to learn the hard way i still dont mind helping a newbie....tackle and techniques i will share totally, but with zones that took years of seach and destroy are a little harder too give out freely. i guess it depends on whose asking or how drunk i am hehehehehe....peace

tight lines......wayne.........

I'm 50/50 on this...

I don't feel I would be as successful if someone hadn't of helped me out at one time or another.
Any of us learned from scratch? Certainly there had to be help somewhere along the way. I don't mind passing knowledge to help someone out. That's part of being a sportsman.

Zipper-lipped spots? If you don't mind the smell of Bigfoot in the air! True we all have our spots but, in well-known waters, success depends on knowledge learned through trial and error (paying dues). This type of watershed, I say help them out. Teach and show them. Will they help or hurt the resource? I betting in the long run, it will help. They'll want to take an active part in the fisheries.

Some folks enjoy their secret spots as places of solitude. These are the spots I am zipper-lipped about.

Our secrets spots are eventually (if not already) going to be found. Odds are...when you're not there, they are! It's only a matter of time before "Joe Smo" figures it out or they are published in our magazines with specifics- it's going to happen!

Downriggin'

Well put Downriggin. Good post.

There has been a long used phrase concerning this general subject - "Show them how but not where". This certainly applies to zipperlips. Please keep them that way! The one thing I take issue with to an extent though is your comment about magazines. Some will sell out zippers and many won't. As a columnist for STS mag I won't give out any zipperlip rivers, or areas of more solitude on more known waters in Oregon or Washington. I won't be quite as careful about BC and AK - they need our tourist dollars and have more water and fish than they can use. With a few past exceptions, STS has pretty well stuck to this position.

As for helping newcomers to learn how to fish effectively, I obviously think that's fine; or I wouldn't have gotten into the biz. Seemingly, the only guys who mind about fishing tech info being shared publicly are selfish guys, who themselves have learned a lot from others. Too bad; try to get over it. I had to come to terms with it, as I used to be secretive about fishing techs. But once you have learned to get over the eroneous notion that you are some kind of gifted human being for being able to catch more fish than average fishers, you have grown to a better place. Because you aren't 'the [Bleeeeep!]' you think you are for that (despite the recent trash talkin threads, that are in fun). Those who have spent more time studying material, and particularly have more time to be on the water dialing in all the time, are going to have higher catch rates. That big of deal? I don't think so. Maybe worth a little self pride.

And ET, I can't go along with your old axiom that 10% of the fishermen catch all the fish, with 90% getting mostly skunked all the time. Certainly the exceptional fishers are in the minority because they are really into it. But the average fishermen these days (after years of info sharing in books, mags, seminars, fishing/outdoor expositions in the bigger cities, TV shows, tackle shop education, Luhr Jensen 'how to' pamphlets, etc) are pretty good fishers. As for a group of guys on here that will only share info with 'their own', well that can't happen on here. Everybody can read what gets posted. What guys share outside of this venue is their biz.

IMHO

RT,

Maybe I was a little blunt with the magazine comment- my apologies. I wanted to express a concern with over exposure e.g., fly fishing mags with their continued coverage of the "great waters." Some of these rivers are starting (already there) look like the Hoodsport Chums fishery! Great for tourism but, I am afraid it will lead to too much pressure.

Downriggin'

How about a fishin report, goooose.

A stranger might just be a friend you haven't met yet.

My policy is, what goes around, comes around. I try to help pretty much anyone I can, whenever I can. I think it makes for a more civil and pleasant world. I don't always help them by telling where my favorite water is, but I will tell them where they can buy a map. For the larger bodies of water, like Puget Sound, I don't think it does any harm to show them where to fish.

I've seen folks get all close mouthed and secretive about what lure they use, or how they fish it, and I just shake my head and smile. Pretty juvenile and mean spirited behavior, if you ask me. It doesn't help the perpetrator, and it just makes relations between people worse. I know a lot of people don't care about that, but I find that rather sad.

Now, there are those that might question whether my attempts at help are in fact helpful, but that's another topic.

While posting off-topic and humorous drivel on the boards I've also read. A lot. And from doing that one action I've learned. A lot. I've learned that on the Columbia a silver and charteuse Kwikfish (K12-13 in clear water and bigger in murky water) wrapped with herring (David Johnson showed me how on the Hot Tamale Outdoor Show ). I learned that a person can use colored hot glue to make a deadly egg cluster for steelies.

I've learned a ton more, too. I've learned that a bunch of different anglers can catch the same fish with various different "secret riggings" because they presented it to the right fish the right way at the right time because they've fished it that way hundreds of times. I've learned that any river that is home waters to fish can have zipperlip holes. I've learned not to scratch my ballsack before I bait a hook because man-scent, while it may get you women, doesn't appeal to fish (or something like that). Don't do it after, too, because Borax could give you a rash. Bet you won't see THAT tip on the HTOS, even though it's on cable access.

I've learned that these forums aren't the best place to discover how to catch fish. They're a great place to BS about fishing and meet people that are far more successful at catching fish than I am and then learning from there. Without Mike's help (real names used to protect the innocent) I would never have landed those barnacle-covered rocks or that crab successfully, and without Jim's help that steelhead would still be heading back to the Pacific.

Think of it like those "How to Get More (and Better!) Women" books. They could tell you all the techniques that are proven successful FOR THAT PERSON, IN THAT CIRCUMSTANCE, AT THAT TIME, WITH THAT WOMAN, but in the end you could still find out that it just takes time, practice, and confidence. Same as fishing.

I am glad there are people like you around silver...

Ironic really if you consider what we are discussing. This is the 'information superhighway' we are posting all this information on.

The trouble is that on the one hand we have "fishermen/women", a notoriously closed mouth brethren of people who have a lot of time invested in learning how to catch fish. On the other hand we have 'the internet bulletin board', making the gathering of the sort of information it may have taken others years to compile available to the internet savvy rookie/less experienced fishermen in the click of a few buttons.

A total clash in styles...

The only information I won't give out is known fish holding spots, maybe two or three holes on my home river where, I'll gladly take you should we fish together, but won't post on the internet...

I think the nice thing about this board is that is is multi dimensional. It is a place to share info on everything from tackle to techniques. It is also a place to build and cultivate relationships. The later requires alot of time and patience. It takes showing up in the chat room and talking alot of other things then fishing. I will never give up a guarded spot to someone I don't know, but I might show it to a friend. I think you get out of this board what you put into it. Those that really have a love of fishing will put the time in and get alot out of this forum, those looking only for a report will go away feeling like they are on the outside looking in.

I give info freely when it comes to techniques, run timing and general location information. Info beyond that is given based on who the person is. I am not going to tell someone local all of my favorite spots on my local rivers however if someone from another area is going to be around for just a couple days i'll get more specific.
There are a couple things that no one should ever do. 1. tell other people about a special spot that you were told about by someone else. 2. give false information

Here's how I deal with it...

First, I think that to be a valuable member of such a BB, you have to realize that it's all about give and take. The more you give up, the more you get back.

It doesn't have to be "in kind" give and take. Information about a place that makes good canvas boat covers is likely to be thanked with information about how much leader to use between your hoochie and flasher.

I'll post the occasional report, but it usually mentions everything except the exact spot, unless that exact spot is secret only to those who have never fished for steelhead in Washington.

I'm happy to share any information about techniques, gear, accessories, etc., and any general information about steelhead or steelhead behavior, for whatever it's worth.

The majority of the information that I share is stuff about the scientific, legal, and political issues surrounding steelhead management, since that's where my experience has been for the last several years. That information is generally given with no strings, except for fair and accurate conversations about the topics.

On those types of issues, I think the most important factor is that people DO NOT jump in with an inflammatory comment, then fade back into the woodwork. It's also important that everyone leave emotion and groundless opinion out of the conversation, unless they clearly note that what they're stating is either emotion talking or opinion with nothing other than emotion to back it up.

I also have found that if you want specific information about a particular river or spot, do a search and it's probably been spoken about already. If it hasn't, check the posts that have been made about a similar area or something else about that particular spot you're looking for. Choose a poster that may have the information you're looking for and shoot them off an e-mail. Tell them who you are and what you're looking for, and mention that you're doing it privately so as to not get anyone on the BB bent about passing out such "private" information.

I have not one time had someone refuse me information using the above technique, and have met a few new fishing partners who would rather show me than tell me about an area. That is usually followed up by a future fishing trip to one of "my" spots with that person.

Fish on...

Todd.

Hook up with guys you don't know, because you might just make a new friend, as was already stated. I have taken the "chance" on many ocassions, and I have always run into great folks. This is when I have learned great tips, and spots. Give, and ye shall receive.

This is my first really active year steelheading in over 10 years, and have really enjoyed getting to know some new folks, and some new water. Up to 15 so far this season, and I still have time left.

I have also taken many folks out on my boat, or shown them some of my spots. This I will do one at a time.

If you want info on one of the mass market fishing hotspots like Sekiu, I'll share just about everything down to what underwear I had on and the GPS coordinates. Zipperlips are gifts of great value, so when someone shows me one of those, I will share it sparingly. I hope you understand my thoughts on this issue.

Andy

Meet and greet anglers on the river as well as on the board. I'd be willing to bet somebody I've probably had words with someone on the river, I'm chat buddies with on the BB's...lol Most likely it's vice-versa when you actually meet a person 'in-person'. I'm living 80 proof of that. :p

Dave Jackson, that Mike guy told me to tell you that whenever you get a chance to catch barnacle rocks again, you should come up and do it again...anytime. Of course ya know when the rocks aren't biting, y'all will have a place to go zipper big troutin'.

That Mike guy was telling me this funny story about a guy with a handle of Fobbman (got to protect the innocent ) and how Fobbman was walking backwards and his @ss (literally his @ss)attacked barnacle covered rocks that had beached themselves. Of course the crab was just a bonus by-catch. :p

That Mike guy is the coolest guy in the world. I hear the ladies swoon over his BS all the time. That mofo. I wish I were cool like that Mike guy. And talk about funny, damn that guy is funny.

Meet and greet anglers on the river as well as on the board. I'd be willing to bet somebody I've probably had words with someone on the river, I'm chat buddies with on the BB's...lol Most likely it's vice-versa when you actually meet a person 'in-person'. I'm living 80 proof of that. :p

Dave Jackson, that Mike guy told me to tell you that whenever you get a chance to catch barnacle rocks again, you should come up and do it again...anytime. Of course ya know when the rocks aren't biting, y'all will have a place to go zipper big troutin'.

That Mike guy was telling me this funny story about a guy with a handle of Fobbman (got to protect the innocent ) and how Fobbman was walking backwards and his @ss (literally his @ss)attacked barnacle covered rocks that had beached themselves. Of course the crab was just a bonus by-catch. :p

That Mike guy is the coolest guy in the world. I hear the ladies swoon over his BS all the time. That mofo. I wish I were cool like that Mike guy. And talk about funny, damn that guy is funny.

Like I've said before (being new to the PacNW), dude be friendly and people will be friendly back. If you get 'attacked' = BIG F'N DEAL. Not like 90% of them would actually say this **** to your face if they met you, and you, are being you..not some 'cyber you'.

No kidding. Dupliduplicationcation.

And why did it have to be an old oyster bed that we were walking across (I was on the front end walking backwards while hauling "Mike's" boat) and not a sea sponge bed?

Great topic.... And now for my opinion:

Human nature being what it is, people aren't going to tell you there favorite secrets for free. It's true in NASCAR, it's true in high school math class and it's true in fishing. This is neiher good nor bad.... but it is true.

That being the case, I wouldn't bend my pick trying to change human nature, because another piece of human nature is that people do share secrets with people they like. I gave up on steelheading about 20 years ago after never catching one. Didn't fish for them for five years. Then I met a guy who showed me how. He also befriended me enough to show me some real zippers. And in return, he only asked that I not blab about them. I still fish with him regularly. I've been hard at it for 15 years now. Expanded my knowledge. Catch a few now and again. Have great fun trying.

Now as for this board, I've met some great guys here. Hooked up with a few and had some great times. We've shared spots and techniques, and I've gained some guys that I consider to be good friends (even if I rarely see them).

Bottom line: Neither they nor I were gonna spill our guts out over the internet to someone we didn't know. But meeting up and making a trip out of it has been very successful for me. Not just for new spots, but for new friends which makes it much more enjoyable.

Go about it in a genuine and sincere way and you'll meet some great people to share the outdoors with. As with any friendship, it helps to put something into it as well.

I'm looking forward to putting more faces with names at F-IV, although some of the faces might not be al that purty