Gregor:

Linux: great server OS, not ready for desktop (No, not even Mandrake).
NT is great if you're not going to questionable websites that would run questionable code on your browser and you keep your virus software updated. Oh yeah, and a good firewall. :p

This couldn't possibly turn into another hook war. Aren't enough participants.

Hey Stormin, drop me a line to talk trades....

Dearest Dave,

How can you say my "arguments against Windoze are dated?" What percentage of Windoze users do you think are using XP? Still pretty small, isn’t it? How many are still using 95 or 98, and how many do you think are still using that REAL POS Windoze ME?

How many businesses still either have full time PC support people or outsource someone to come in at least once a week? It’s just a given! I work for a small manufacturing company, only about 30 PC's, we have a guy that comes in EVERY FRICKIN WEDNESDAY... we have to, to keep them running. So how can my comments be "outdated" if this is still the standard???
At the same time, we also have 14 Macs, and we've had a guy come in ONCE, and I've brought a machine in to be serviced TWICE... in SIX YEARS.

Your comments about OS9 are WAY off. I run Mac OS9, I've been running it for years. It works great, it's stable, it's definitely NOT a “POS”. I've got two servers that are run 24/7 and have been restarted maybe twice in three years.

As for OSX, yeah, I'm not using OSX yet because Adobe hasn't released an OSX native Photoshop yet. Who cares? I'm perfectly happy with OS9. The only reason I’m really looking forward to the new Photoshop is the new tools... I could care less what OS it runs on. When I have used OSX, though, was NOT slow... to the contrary. Applications run under the OS9 shell seemed to run the same speed as they did under straight OS9... have you actually TRIED this, and timed it, or are you just listening to other people’s comments? And, I'm not talking the newest, fastest machines... I'm talking earlier G4's, so they're about 2 year old machines.

Macs DO have their place, and it's the same place that PC's belong... Doing everyday work, but doing it better. Yeah, there are some of us that ARE obsessed with correct color, correct font sizes, perfect print jobs. We have to be, it's our JOB. When I'm printing 120,000 snowboard catalogs, I want them to be perfect, and I want to get them done fast.
Don't get me wrong, if I wanted to run lab equipment and do D/A conversions and gather data, I'd run a PC... there's just way more support for that sort of thing available. But I don't do that. I make graphics, I make printed catalogs, web sites, I edit videos, and I do all the normal stuff, like email, spreadsheets, database, web surfing, etc.

You may be able to get a bare-bones PC (box, power supply, board) for what, $400? Give me that $400 and let me buy a bare-bones (used) Mac, and then let us buy all the same components, because all the hard drives, CDR’ s, RAM chips, PCI and AGP cards are exactly the f$$king same now, be it Mac or PC... and then let’s go head to head and see if you “run that Mac into the ground” In the end, I’ll be the one doing Freehand, Illustrator, Photoshop, etc., plus burning CD’s, editing videos (what percentage of PC’s have built-in FireWire, and BTW, who invented it?) does your PC come with iMovie, iDVD, iTunes, etc? And I bet I can install and set it up quicker, produce it quicker, make it look better, and have the system crash less than my PC counterpart.

So in the end, the real differences are:
1. How much you pay for the bare-bones machine.
2. How well the OS and software run, and how easy it is to install and maintain.
3. What can you do with the machine, and how productive can you be? ie. How easy is it to use, learn, and how much is it down?

By the way, the top-of-the-line Mac machines don't beat the top PC's "only in specially-scripted Photoshop filters"... you may be able to pawn that off on the rest of these guys, but think about it for a second, man. The top-of-the-line Mac today is a dual G4/1GHz... the G4 is a 128bit chip. Aren't the Pentium 4’s still 32bit chipsets? What's the fastest they're up to now? 2.2GHz? 2.4Ghz? Come’on.

Oh, and FYI Dave, I was an engineering major, not an art major.

Fishing content: Mid Channel Bank produced some nice blackmouth this past weekend.

Sorry, but you got me on a rant...

"Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq, Tandy, and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, may note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form".

New York Times, November 26, 1991

-N.

I tried poking around in the web a little to find some unbiased comparisons. Not easy. Here is one I found that seemed pretty balanced and relevent to this topic:

MACINTOSH -VS- PC's, WHICH SYSTEM IS RIGHT FOR YOU?


by George Rodrigues

(Special Note:) If you do not understand some the computer terminology used in this article, then use the glossary link to the left and then return to this page.

I get more calls from people asking me if they should purchase a Macintosh or a PC-compatible computer. If you ask a person who has only used a Macintosh, they'll argue you to the end of time that this IS the ONLY system worth your time and trouble.

On the other side of the coin, if you talk to someone who has only used a PC-compatible, they'll put Macintosh systems down to the ground and argue until the end of time that this IS the ONLY system worth your time and trouble.

Well, guess what? I'm from BOTH environments and I like both of them! And to be totally fair in my evaluations, I operated the same software (Photoshop) on both systems. So, what do I suggest since I can be bias?

A Macintosh system is "graphic" based while a PC-compatible is "text" based. This DOESN'T mean that you can't do the same with both. It only means that a Macintosh's entire operation is centered around graphics and desktop publishing _ but both systems can perform the same functions and do well at it. In my opinion, a Macintosh is the "Cadillac" for desktop publishing.

However, I own a PC-compatible. Why? Because of cost, compatibility and availability of parts and software. It all boils down to how much money you have to spend.

The PC-compatibles now have Windows-based operating systems which work similar to a Macintosh. In the old days, Macintosh held the title for desktop publishing, but now a PC - compatible can do the same thing.

For instance, I bought a 300Mhz with a 8GIG hard drive for around $900 complete (including software). The comparable Macintosh would have cost me around $1,500 _ a $600 difference!

I like to also compare my PC-compatible with a Ford truck. If the starter on my Ford goes out, I can go down the street and get one from a junk yard and save lots of money. However, if I had a Mercedes Benz (Macintosh), I could only buy a true Mercedes Benz part and have to pay a real Mercedes Benz expert to put it on for me. Therefore, a Mercedes
Benz is really only a status symbol. It's more important to save money than impress people.

A Macintosh system used to run faster than PC-compatibles if you compare the same type of systems. However, this is no longer true. A PC-compatible will now give you more for your money compared to a Macintosh.

Before you make a decision, sit down and demonstrate both systems at your computer dealer. Then look at your pocketbook and make the decision YOU want. Also know what you want to use the computer for, and buy based on that decision. If you do this, you do not have to purschase the latest and faster computer.

Hey PhishPhreak,

That article is a bit dated, (8GB HD system for $900?) and some of the things he states aren't true, at least not anymore. Years ago, it was true that Macs used slightly different hard drives and RAM chips, but these days they are EXACTLY the same as PC ones. I just go to Staples or Costco and buy a hard drive or CDR for my Mac, just like everybody else does for their PCs... it's not an issue.

It is true that the quality of the components you get in a new Mac system are a grade or two above the "clone" level components, (hence the Benz reference) but you're paying more for them, too, so that's expected.

I normally buy new Macs pretty much bare-bones and then just pick-and-choose the components I'd like to add... shop here for RAM, shop there for an extra hard drive, get the monitor from there, etc. to get the best value.

-N.

LOL! Nothing like trolling for Mac users. Looks like I put out the right bait, and WHAM! Damned near took the rod right outta my hand.

... then broke the line and swam away...

-N.

ANDY - A THREE hour lunch? It figures!

Bankers hours, ya know. Gotta have time to work off those three martinis.

That was some of the best reading I have had in a long time!