Folks,

I am by no means a long timer here. You can look at the date in the footer below. However, even in the time I have been hanging around here, about 6 months, I have noticed a certain locker room atmosphere forming.

Let no one think that I am a prude. Anyone who has fished with me knows what a low life I really am. I know all the words, and most of the jokes. However, anything that we post here can be pulled up by any 10 year old that does a Yahoo search on steelhead fishing. There are a lot of words I use and discussions I have with my friends that I wouldn't have in front of my children. I have had some uncomfortable moments recently explaining some of the posts I read here to my daughter, when she has come up and started reading over my shoulder. I have had to explain that there are some crude and unsavory people in the world, and that she should come talk to me if she ever encounters them elsewhere. Would anyone here feel proud to be included in that description?

I can't believe I am the only person here, in a crowd of 3000, that would like to not have to act as if I'm reading pornography when I'm checking this site out.

I'd just like to ask, if you wouldn't say it in front of your own children, your friends' children, or even simply in the company of people you don't know well yet, should you say it here?

Because if you say it here, you are saying it in front of your children, your friends' children, and your neighbors.

Please think about it.

Thanks for listening

ATB

Silver get a life please...your average child hears more crap day in and day out from adults and peers than what they would ever read on this board....in reality I find this board tame to what I saw when I was a poor lurker a year ago...you want family hour well you know where to find it...."locker room" (?) behavour(?) give us a break ! Far as I'm concerned this board is very well behaved...yes we have our mad moments but thats where you hear the loud *click* sound as the BIG ONE provides discipline. You want to protect innocent youthful souls lock them in the basement please....and set your computer up with the proper security for young eyes....thats your responsibility not ours...Verdad?!

"in my best Robert DeNiro"
Are you talking to me....well, are ya?
.
wait no, that was my best RT impersonation.
j/k RT

Silver hilton- Maybe you should keep better tabs on what your young children can access I know I do..And that goes for anyone else that there young children roam the internet without adult supervision..

There are parental controls that stop these sort of things from happening..

sounds to me like you need a handle on your children we shouldn't have to do that for you!!

TM

'Silton, I don't quite understand your strong concern - it does not have a sound basis in the internet info age! Gooose and Timber have said it right on the money. It's YOUR responsibility to limit young immature children's access to the internet.

Since this subject has been brought up on other rare occassions, I will take it a bit further this time. This is by a vast majority a hardcore fishing site made up of young to old adult fishers, that in addition to sharing fishing info, also enjoy the kind of "boat talk" that goes on out on the water during fishing days. All of them have the choice of which threads they want to click on and read. They are labled, and/or quickly discernable as to content. By allowing a site like this to be realistically normal, it allows us an extention of the fishing experience to go on at any given time; that many here don't have the time to do on the water very much. If a young person is old enough to have interest in salmon/steelhead fishing and can find this site with a search on the internet, they can easily find a whole LOT worse things on this little screen than the relatively benign joking around we do on here - by a HUGE margin!!! That puts it right back where Gooose and Timber correctly put it. On you.

Now I have some questions of you and others of the same stance. If you were being what you seem to consider a 'naughty?' boy and reading in such threads as the "Poohouse Scriptures", that administrator Bob changed to "Poohouse Scriptures - ADULT Humor", and your child walked in the room, why didn't you click to another thread or another site altogether, which you can do in an INSTANT, instead of keeping it up on the screen and inviting your child to read it?!? And why go on to give your child an oration of ugly cynical immpressions of many of the 'normal' and decent members of this fishing BB?!? If the child were old enough to be able to 'get' the subtle adult themed humor put forth on here, they would have heard it all by now already. Your 'painted scenario story' isn't credible. And if your child wasn't asleep or away from home, or you don't lock your den or office or bedroom door, why would you have a site you deem objectionable by your standards on screen in the first place? We've heard this plaintive stuff before, from one website admin and a very few other people. It doesn't cut it! I haven't seen them answer those questions I asked above - not once! Please, for once, answer them for us. Thanks. ... And then, please be more careful of what you have on screen around your children.

My children bring home far more off-color stuff from school than I have ever seen here. And they are 10 and 12. Doubt anything here would surprise them in the least.

I have to go with the masses on this one.

I have a back button, and a home button, and they both get used in situations like the one SH is describing. I don't sit and let my kids read about poohouse humor and RT's sheep over my shoulder and then tell them what lowlifes the contributors are. That's silly.

Silver was just asking for you to use common sense and not use bad language. Instead, several of you have to bad mouth him. This is a tame site that doesn't use too many words that would be offending. If it got out of hand, rules would have to be put in place and no one wants that Instead just keep in clean in respect of others opinions.

i agree its my responsibility to monitor my kids and yours for your kids. personally i think real life is a whole lot worse than anything there gonna see here.dont think anyone was baggin on him don he asked a question and they answered
mike

DonK- "keep it clean in respect for others"

what about respect for the one's that don't like it "saint" clean all the time....

Once again DonK I will say it for you....
It's no John Q publics responsibility to make sure someone elses child reads this its yours as a parent.

I have 2 children at home and they do not get to roam the net unsupervised..And I sure as helldon't let th stand and read over my shoulder. when I know dam well it's something they shouldnt be reading..Sounds to me like Silver let his daughter stand OVER HIS SHOULDER and read the post he thought was offensive..

Silver- Before you sart tryin to clean up everyone else maybe you should clean your own back yard..
And then to start calling peope on here crude and unsavory.
IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT DON'T READ IT

Is this how you teach your daughter to talk about people? With disrespect by caling them names.

I would rather have my cildren read this site then teach them to disrespect others by calling them names.Or catagorizing folks without knowing them other then reading a post on a forum.

GROW UP!!

TM

I support Silver Hilton!

Not so much about the children thing, but more because this is a public forum. What you say among a close group of friends in private is one thing, but when you post here you are making a public statement for the whole world to hear.

Do you really want the world to think of this group of fishermen in the PNW as a bunch of undereducated, crude, and rude folks? I didn't think so.

At the end of the day, the posts are Bob's responsibility, and the things you say reflect on him as the site owner.

SA

Maybe Ms. Manners could stop by and give us a little lesson.

Sorry, but fishers aren't nuns. If we're too unsavory a bunch for you, I'm sure that somewhere in this big, bad internet is a BB with all savory and couth membership.

Hey Silver Hilton,

Wake Up...................

What ivory tower have you been living in.......... Why don't you take an afternoon adn go spend lunch and plyground time with your kids, or if they are older than that, read the notes they pass...........

Where do you get off censoring us. Your the parent, if these really are your standards, I feel sorry for you kids, as they will have to learn some of lifes lessons on their own......... Whats next, banning books from the school library? Let me guess, you screen the newspaper adds and don't let you kids go to the mall except early in the mornings??

Hey....... on last thing, if you wnat to hear some really good jokes, just as your 6th grader. And if they are not comfortable telling dad the jokes they hear at school, ask yourself what else they are not or will not be willing to talk to you about.

Nowhere in Hiltons post do I see "do this now or else". He was merely stating an opinion. He did this in a non-aggressive manner also. In return, he receives attacking responses with most sounding like a "15 year old wanna fight the world response". There is no point in starting a "u r is a stupid person me not responsible two raise ur kids" fight.

I have enjoyed Silvers posts. I respect his opinion. I do not whole heartedly agree with all of it. However, I find responses to his post more offensive.

And yes, I did make this an aggressive post. I believe that a good person was attacked for sharing a particular belief which was displayed in an intelligent manner. Just my 3 cents.

Oh by the way, this was not directed at everyones response. Read down the list. You can tell who got a bit uncomfortable. It came across as they are ready to fight. Maybe my perception was wrong on these posts?

I'm sorry if I have offended. I don't ask that anyone adhere to my standards. Frankly, it's not like they are particularly high. I was simply raised to keep the barnyard conversation in the barnyard. Since this site has curse word filters in place, I, perhaps naively, assumed that the expectation was to keep a reasonably clean, family oriented tone. I just thought I'd ask that people think about adhering to their own standards, the ones that they would use in public. Sounds like the thought was unwanted, and I'm sorry for that.

These manners are pretty common around the Internet - I am a little surprised that you find it intrusive. Most folks find it to be good manners to keep it pretty clean in areas where their conversation is likely to be overheard.

However, it's also good manners to not force your standards on others, and I won't try. My request was simply that, a request for consideration. Sounds like it has been considered and rejected, and I'll consider that in the future.

Silver Hilton. I respect your candor and concerns and will not bash you for it. However this BB is wrong place to come if you are easily offended or uncomfortable with some of the humor that goes on around here. A lot of us come here to relax and be ourselves! I for one like that atmosphere here. I would suggest that if you want a more G-rated type fishing site try ifish.net. It is tamer than here and maybe it is more to your liking.
Stew

silver hilton, what is your opinion of todd and jerry talking about having a beer on the wsc thread that is on the board now ? is that ok for kids to read ?, just curious. it seems like every wsc meeting has a bar for drinks, do you feel its ok to promote drinking as long as you dont say any "bad" words while your doing it...

I won't bash either. But if he anyone has a problem, then go to the site owner aad see what he/she has to say. In the end it's their site and their rules. So far Bob hasn't ben jumping us about our candor on here. This is real life. Life isn't pretty and frily, rainbows and sunshine. In my line of work I've seen everything from low life scum to upper crust high society and pretty much ALL of them have a BS'n mouth. In a formal "gathering" there is an etiquette. But this is FAR from a formal gathering. This is an informal gathering of people I consider friends. I talk the same way in public as I do here. I don't try to censor too much. I'd rather have my kids learn it from me, then hear it somewhere else. Plus, I've found th more you shelter your kids, the more they'll DO what you've tried to shlter them from. Grew up wit many kids ho weren't allowed to swear and drink, but guess who th drunks and poty mouths were at the high school parties??

I agree with the masses. Censorship starts at home. I'd rather have my kids read this then aporn site. NOTHING on here is remotely close to what you can find on even a low key porn site. (not that I'd know LOL). Plus, what you consider ofensive, I may not and vise versa. There are plenty of "family" fishing sites. I grew up fishing with the same mentalities you are trying to discourage. I was a mere 7 year old and having guys in their 30's to 70's BS around me. Ii'm actually glad thy did. It wasn't a F$%^ this or F$%^ that every other word. It would occasionally pop up. It's the guys who ween't alowed to swear that cussed like longshoreman (no offense to longshoreman, just an expresiion) whenever they were away from their parents/wives. So, since it was asked thta we talk the way we'd talk in "public" or around our family, then that's what I'm gonna do. No changes here.

The nice thing about this country is everyone can say what they want. That means if someone finds the content offensive, they can say so. It also means if someone doesn't like that person saying it, they can also say so. Free speech is a good thing. It allows us to spread and share ideas. It allows us to share jokes too! I have a ten year and 12 year old at home, they have the some of the funniest jokes I have ever heard. I also remember when I was in school at that age. My Dad would have whipped my butt for my language. I believe we could keep it cleaner some times, but I also believe we should all do better parts as parents. This does not mean I think any one hear is a bad parent and DO NOT EVEN THINK I IMPLIED IT! I think we should give our kids credit for wanting to learn and wanting to grow. If we do our jobs right, then when the kids are grown and productive members of society, we can all sit back, have a beer and tell naughty jokes. Away from the grandkids though.

Hahahaha -

This thread is perfect.

A simple expression of opinion by silver hilton about cleanliness and the same group of people (its always the same three or four, far from a majority) begin the flaming...

I disagree with silver hilton on the issue of cleanliness for the virtue of children. This is the internet where freedom of speech is guaranteed (at least in this country). Tools are available at no cost for parents to exercise the control necessary to block children from viewing this site, if they felt it necessary.

Personally I don't find anything objectionable enough here to disallow my 13 yo son from viewing it.

I keep my posts clean for many reasons.

1. Out of respect for the person on whose thread I am posting.

2. Toilet humor, although at times amusing, is the low hanging fruit of comedy (see Eddie Murphy)...

3. Flames are almost always an expression of stupidity. Its what people resort to when you stick the truth in their face and they are confronted with the errors in their logic.

Trust me, amongst friends I swear like a truck driver. In public I try to be much more aware of what I say because you never know who might be listening. This is a public forum because you do not have to be a member to view these posts...

I think I have given a wrong opinion of how offensive I think the humor has been. I have only come across a few incidents that I think are just over the top. I think they have both been removed by either the individual or the moderators. I have spoken to each of those individuals directly, with less than responsive results. They are among the respondents above. The individuals seem to think that this is a place to grunt and scratch and let it all hang out. Maybe it is. The swear word filter made me think that the management wanted better than that.

You're all correct that it is the parent's job to keep offensive stuff from their kids. I certainly accept that. I'm just a little surprised and saddened that this might be one of those places to keep from kids. My kids don't come here, I do. After reading the board for several months, I didn't think I had to hide the screen when cruising through the site. Until fairly recently.

I made the comment I did, because I wanted to make a polite request for a change. I didn't demand, I just asked for consideration of the concept. You can choose whether to comport yourself like this is a family picnic, where the beer is flowing and everyone is having fun. And, frankly, once in a while, Uncle Bill lets loose with the 'f' word. Or you can choose to comport yourself like it's late friday night at the neighborhood tavern. Or somewhere inbetween. Me, I'd kinda prefer the family picnic atmosphere myself, and the swear filters kinda give the impression that that is what is expected here. Sounds like at least a few would rather be at the tavern. I guess it's up to Bob to sort it out.

And to those who chose to get hostile in response to my request, well, I guess I learned something about you today. For the most part, none of you had ever said or done anything that provoked my comment. I'm kind of surprised to see that reaction from some of you, Gooose and AuntieM in particular.

So, we all come to places like this to socialize and find folks that they'd like to be with. Sounds like this might not be the right place for me, so I'll go look elsewhere. Sorry if I bothered anyone along the way, it's not my style.

You want censorship? You want a sterile BB environment where you can act like you are in Church? Where nearly every post is inane babble and there is no REAL fishing input or advice? Just a bunch of gladhanding and sucking up to the web-Master/owner?

An environment where you can be banned in a heartbeat if you didn't offend but the web-Master assumes you were the culprit? Then he goes and tells the world that you are a bad boy?

You want to see nothing but squeaky clean useless crap?

Go to Lamefishin.com!!!!!!!

That's what you'll get if this board were to be as controlled as you're talking about.

Silver Hilton.....I must hve missed it. Where do
you see a moderator in the above responses?

i vote for crude on the river and polite in public. with the guys i hang out with, that doesnt always work, but the theory sounds ok. it sounds to me that hilton was just making an observation. if you dont agree, its your choice to act however you wish. if i see something offensive, i ignore it, if it doesnt affect me.
ive got seven kids, and i doubt that any of them would be too offended by piscatorial.

Isn't there a ****ing naughty-****ing word filter on this ****ing site? ****!

These type of threads that develope into a debate about human nature, mores' of society, and how we characterize other's opinions are always interesting. And nearly always are fraught with inaccuracies and wrongful accusations. They actually peeve me off more than the original post. I've been thru more of them than my share. The amazing thing is how poorly the recognition by some 'challenged' people is for who was "attacked" or "bashed", and who put up a rightful and accurate defense response! They often will try to turn it around against a person(s) they don't like or agree with. I've been put thru more than one of these exact scenarios. It brings forth incredible lameness at times.

In this case, a member who I like and enjoy his posts, 'Silton, puts up a thread subject in which he put forth 'his' standards on others concerning adult subject matter on a primarily adult site; with a very negative spin on it. That is his right, as it is the right for others to disagree. I also think the more offensive thing was his characterization of many of us as "crude and unsavory". But after other's rightful disagreement posts, in come the more offensive guys with NO CLUE (DonK, St'Add, Phish, sthdr20) that are more aggrivatingly out-of-line with their mis-characterization of those posts than they are aware of! Take off your blinders guys and go back and re-read (something I've had to tell too many 'challenged' people to do - and I don't care how condescending that sounds; it's accurate). Having re-read above, you should see ~~~

It was Silver Hilton that affronted a large percentage of member's character here with this quote that he purportedly told his daughter while sitting at his computer and, amazingly to me if he was telling the truth about it, allowing her to read things he doesn't want her to see - "I have had to explain that there are some crude and unsavory people in the world (unquestionably directed at many of us!), ... Would anyone here feel proud to be included in that description?" NO; we would be offended, and were. That is a direct and mostly inaccurate affront. Period. Then ~~~

In comes the 'challenged' pot stirs with:

DonK - "several of you have to bad mouth him." Don, not. We came in and took exception to his opinion and even more so to his inaccurate characterization of members! No "bad mouthing".

Steel-Add' - "Do you really want the world to think of this group of fishermen in the PNW as a bunch of undereducated, crude, and rude folks? I didn't think so." Relax Steel', they aren't even thinking about us! Besides, they are up to same or worse in a majority of them.

Phish - Geez, where to start with his post? Most of it; "he receives attacking responses with most sounding like a '15 year old wanna fight the world response'. There is no point in starting a 'u r is a stupid person me not responsible two raise ur kids' fight.
I have enjoyed Silvers posts. I respect his opinion. I do not whole heartedly agree with all of it. However, I find responses to his post more offensive.
And yes, I did make this an aggressive post. I believe that a good person was attacked for sharing a particular belief which was displayed in an intelligent manner. Just my 3 cents.
Oh by the way, this was not directed at everyones response. Read down the list. You can tell who got a bit uncomfortable. It came across as they are ready to fight. Maybe my perception was wrong on these posts?" ... Nice piece Phish. Not. You vilify us for a counter opinion to 'Silton's, then find our criticism "offensive", then turn around and do the exact same thing to several of us! In addition to learning to perceive what you are reading better, you need to learn why your hypocracy is so offensive! However, thanks for asking if your perception was off. Yes, it was.

stlhdr2o - "A simple expression of opinion by silver hilton about cleanliness and the same group of people (its always the same three or four, far from a majority) begin the flaming...
I disagree with silver hilton on the issue of cleanliness for the virtue of children. This is the internet where freedom of speech is guaranteed (at least in this country). Tools are available at no cost for parents to exercise the control necessary to block children from viewing this site, if they felt it necessary." ... This hypocritical take by st'2o is even funnier than Phish's. He criticises us for exercising our right of disagreement with the intial post in the this thread, and then follows it with his own disagreement with it!!!!! Geeeeez that's embarrassing dude!

Since most of the adult type humor here has to do with proper bodily functions of human sexuality and waste disposal that are inheritantly awkward thus sometimes funny, maybe some of you need to get a grip on the reality that the human race makes fun of itself. Lighten up. It's OK! Get over the unrealistic puritanical aura of the under-educated and inhibited expansionists from Europe that brought and put a bad conitation spin on wonderful human sexuality; and the sometimes natural but awkwardness of it all, that we make fun of. Almost everyone does. And ~~~

Since this occured on Easter Sunday, let me express thankfulness that the Lord provided us with those wonderful bodily mechanisms that allow the human race to exist in the first place and to be able to survive, and has forgiven us our sins as well as our lighthearted fun with it.

Now, go get over it and lighten up.

Off the soapbox.

RT

Hey guys, (AuntyM, you too) be nice. Agree to disagree, please. "Can't we all just get along?"

I think topics like "poohouse scriptures" are fairly well labeled, and you can pretty much excpect what you're going to see by the title.

But being the liberterian that I am, I don't like to see limits placed upon others in group fashion. Limit yourselves, and if you find something offensive, respond in a private message to the mods, on a case by case basis. Let them figure it out. It is their board to run.

Odds are that if it isn't a slam on Ifish.net, or something entirely outrageous, it will probably stay. Bob has said more than a few times that he lightly moderates the board. I like it that way.

Best of luck to both sides on this issue. Can we please stop the name calling?

Catch any fish lately?

Silver Hilton post away...you've got opinions....and so do others. You gave yours on this particular subject and I gave it some consideration and voiced mine in disagreement. Info Moment For All: don't expect
everyone to be in agreement when you post an opinion....thats the beauty of this particular forum.

As for there being a certain group that always takes to flaming....sure you betcha when someone posts something that is meant to be obviously inflammatory...and suspect in content.
Hmmmm maybe someone needs to take a look at their reflection in a pail of H20?

Are we there yet ???

There's always TWO sides... Thats why WE as SPORTSMEN never get anywere in this state

Silver,
THere should be more parents like you who care about there kids, and voicing your concerns should be taken openly istead of subjectivly

Thanks Silver .... I appreciated your comments.

You know, Ii don't know bankwalker, don't know what exactly your tone was on your comment since the internet is one dimensional. But are you saying those of us who don't lie to our children or don't fill them will false rose colored glasses of the world are bad parents?? I for one giie my children alot of love, and the majority of my time (hence cutting down my fishing). I don't sshelter them from all thaat's bad, but show them what's good. But I DON'T read a BB and then try to explain to my children if they read something over my shoulder (which Ii do most of my coomputer time when kids are in bed or playing in their room) by telling them that my co-members are crude when they are probably friends I fish with. I would've apologiized to my daughter for lletting her see it (which wouldn't be much since I always seem to sense when they are there) because it was my mistake. Not teh boardmembers who wrote it.

Here's how I see it. You can only post if you're a registered user. Bob has final say on what stays or goes. Complain to him. If he says it's ok, then it's not offensive. This is not a "public" forum. You can openly voice your opinions in a "public" forum. You don't have to register, or get your account yanked if you're iin a public forum. We're all "members" of Piscatorial Pursuits that Bob has graciously kept running for us with the freedoms he has let us convey on our posts. He owns iit, so what he says goes. If he shuts down the BB tomorrow, all the emails in the world won't bring it back if he doesn't want it going. Now a public area that is being shut down, enough noise and things get done. This is a PRIVATE site owned by Bob that he lets us VISIT. We may post here, but what he says goes. Plain and simple. Now, if it was a .org or .gov then I'd have a problem.

Ok, off my soapbox, I'm going to bed.

Hey RT, shouldn't you be out chasing Emu's or ssomething???

Hey '69, whew, that's what I just got back from doing. Dammit gumby, I couldn't catch any. And I wanted one sooooo bad too. We watched a rented movie earlier this evening called "Double Take". In a couple scenes they showed bunches of beautiful emus at a Texas farm. Really. Only in their natural feathers. Oh man!

Hey, since that joke was never my idea, how about the guys who perpetuated it try to explain it to all the little kids swarming to the salmon and steelhead fishing BB, while their parents are out of the house?

Personally, I don't mind threads such as Poohouse Scriptures if it is labeled as such ... but in everyday posts, I don't see the need for posts littered with trash.

Well this about enough of this thread I think.