I wouldn't be late for this weigh in!!!

Bob, thanks for letting me post this here!!

Wind River / Drano Lake Salmon Tournament!!

May 18th and 19th

$200.00 entry fee per team
A team consists of two members with the winning team providing
the best total weight not exceeding 8 Salmon for this two day event..

A minimum of 75 teams is required.

Top Team will receive $5,000.00
2nd Place will receive $3,000.00
3rd Place will receive $1,000.00

There is also be a big fish of the day and a tournament winner! Big fish tickets will cost $20.00 each day. You do not have to be in the tournament to enter the big fish.

Mandatory Pre Tournament meeting will be held at 3:30 am on Saturday the 25th at the front steps of the Wind Mountain Resort Store.

Weigh In will be from 5pm to 6pm each day.
NO WEIGHTS GIVEN IF YOU ARRIVE AFTER 6pm!
Weigh In will be at the Wind Mountain Resort.

You can pre-register by mailing the form below to:
Tournament 150 Pleasant Hill Rd. Chehalis, Wa. 98532 or stopping by
Wind Mountain Resort 2 miles East of the Wind River, or
Emailing your Name, Address and Phone Numbers to: sstourneys@yahoo.com

If 75 teams are not registered before May 16th,
tournament will be cancelled and all money refunded.

Name_______________________________________Phone______________________

Address________________________________________________________________

Email _______________________Partners name if known________________________

Please send Check for $200 plus $40 if you want big fish tickets to:

Tournament 150 Pleasant Hill Rd. Chehalis, Wa. 98532

For Questions call: 360-520-1175

Ooops....you have to be registered before the 16th not the 23rd.

JimB

I edited the 1st post to reflect the date change.

OK, guaranteed $15,000 in the pot (75 X $200), $9,000 payout ($5,000, $3,000, $1,000). Who gets the other $6,000? What am I missing here?

Thumper, your a good man to have around!

Exploit the people...Exploit the fish...Exploit the people...Exploit the fish...theme gets old doesn't it?

FJ...out.

Yes, thanks Thumper! Something smells kind of funny, and I don't mean the fish. What, am I just supposed to send $$ off to some strange address? This doesn't sound very official...

Gentleman,
This is a test tournament, the goal is to find out how to most efficiently run it, what it takes cost wise etc...This concept of an annual tournament series will be presented to the NSIA board in June, we are hoping to have one under our belt to show how it can be done. Some of the proceeds will be donated to NSIA and the rest will be to cover the cost of putting on the tournament. I appreciate your asking wasn't sure this morning to put all details or just run with the flyer.

Hope this helps,

Jim

In my humble opinion, this is a very bad idea. The last thing salmon and steelhead angling needs is a circuit like the bass boys have.

There are a couple of reasons why it works for them and not for us. The first is the size of the impoundments the bass guys have to fish. The second is that all bass tournaments that I know of are catch and release. How would you do that?

What do you think the other fishermenare going to think about a bunch of overly agressive fishin-for-money types descending on Drano? Think they will just kick back and watch the action? Putting this kind of pressure on folks tends to bring out the worst in them.

Another point: You seem to be saying that this touney is non-profit with some of the proceeds going to charity and the rest covering expenses. Is that the way of it or are you also trying to put a few thousand in your pocket? I have absolutely nothing against capitalizm but I would like to see the breakdown up front.

Bad idea! Fishing out of desperation,
what's the point. I think that this should be played out in Las Vegas in a casino. The Fish and the local fisherman can't take this kind of abuse. I can see it now, the agression, the compromising of good sportsmanship,
the neglect of anglers not in the tournament.
All things I go fishing to get away from. I hope this will just go away. My $.02 worth.

For the sake of discussion...not argument.

Why I think its a good idea. If any of you have ever been intensely involved in the politics surrounding the fish we love to fish for I think you will understand. Lets take a look at the Springer season that we enjoyed last year and this. It is only because of massive fin clipping that we are allowed to fish, massive fin clipping fought hard for by NSIA. In a bigger scale take the North of Falcon process. In a meeting a few years ago I was sitting next to Clancy Holt and realized that the commercials had their Biologist and Attorney there...the Indians had the same...and we the sportsfisherman had nothing. I wrote this on a piece of paper and wrote..."we Lose!!!" These tournaments if successful would bring in some necessary funds to provide a greater ability to fight the fight. I hear on these boards all the time all the whining and complaining how we are always getting the shaft..."bend over" is heard alot. Well I am open to other venues to provides some big dollar income that is needed...lets hear your ideas...

Oh and by the way thanks to the 11 teams so far!!

Jim

How much of the 5K goes to uncle Sam. Does the winner have to pay tax? Uncle Sam has a tight line and a sharp hook. Never seen him loose a fish. Kind of like me

Now your talkin'... But of course it has to be on a weekend when I have to work...

Question though, 2 team members and 8 fish??? You up the limit's or something?? Or can you have 8 guys and 8rods hanging out of a boat for the 2 people to enter the entire catch...

As for those concerned with the tourney, I'd recommend not fishing that day in that particular area and as for the types of fish being caught, well they're hatchery fish right?? I'd be thankful that these fish are being caught and not haveing to go through the birage of corkies and snaggers in the main river.. At least you can't snag them in open water... We already have the right to catch and release wild fish...

Count me in on a weekday...
Keith

Keith thats 2 fisherman X 2 fish X 2 days that = 8 thanks for playing higher math (I'm just teasing) I'm not sure if this is a good idea or a bad one or if we could keep this type of thing going more than the one tourney.

What happens if you now get dependent on these tourneys for donations and we get no fish next year.

and lets say I do hit the big payday like someone else asked what is my tax liability.

Despite some anglers' hopes to the contrary, fishing STILL isn't a competitive sport...

Fish kisser...maybe I was raised differently but fishing has been competetive since the first time my sister and I fished together. And Dad always made it competetive "betcha I catch the next fish!" I do the same thing had a bet going with my 11 yr old son yesterday...whoever caught the next fish got to choose dinner location. I think its competetive for most of us, with that said here is where I hope all of this goes.

My ultimate goal is simple:

Have some guys that actually make their living doing this.

Have at least one tournament that First place is worth nearly $50,000.00

Have about 200 boats that are informed for every tournament and at least 100 enter

All excess salmon donated to local food banks

Catch and Release Sturgeon Tournaments

One weekend per year all tournament fishers participate in a habitat for humanity project

Massive end of the year banquet with "Top Rod" awards being presented hopefully with a major sponsor donation as a reward.

All of this happening while NSIA earns nearly $500,000.00 in the process. We as sportsman would then finally have our first well funded lobbying organization...can you feel the winds of change??

Jim

sign up for the tournament: sstourneys@yahoo.com

Here are a couple of pics from Drano taken on Wed. A rough count on Wed. morning was over 100 boats and 30 bank fishers by the bridge. We left on Friday afternoon so I would have to guess that there were considerably more boats on Sat.

I have a couple questions.

Facilities, with Drano already having over 100 boats on a weekday and parking and facilities being strained how would you deal with the additional number of tournament boats? On wed. there was literally no place to park and barely enough room on the lake to fish.

Registration, is this tournament registared with WDFW?

You said that "some" of the leftover $6000 would go to NSIA. Would you mind being more specific about how much will be going to NSIA and also does NSIA currently know about this tournament?

Who is running the tournament and does the $6000 - NSIA donations go to this person for his/her time and expenses? What are the forecasted expenses?

With that kind of money on the line I would expect that there would be and offical weigh in station and some published rules and regulations. Is that correct, where can we get a copy of the regulations and rules? Who and how would disputs be handled?

Quote: "In a meeting a few years ago I was sitting next to Clancy Holt and realized that the commercials had their Biologist and Attorney there...the Indians had the same...and we the sportsfisherman had nothing. I wrote this on a piece of paper and wrote..."we Lose!!!"

Is this an attempt to start a "for profit orginzation" to save the fish or a "non-profit orginzation"? If so can you give us some more details about this orginzation and their goals and agendas?

Bruce,
Well first of all...how did you do fishing, I know on Thursday it was limits by 7 or 8 am.

To answer your questions:

Any tournament puts a squeeze on parking, however so far everyone that has registered has also fished Wind or Drano at some this year, it is also why we are fishing both spots.

Salmon tournaments do not require a permit from WDFW.

NSIA is fully aware and Pete Morris from ifish.net has already checked that out so please contact ifish instead of NSIA since they have much bigger fish to fry. NSIA will be getting half of the proceeds, since I have never done this before I have no idea what the expenses will be. But keep in mind the goal is to pull one off so that the board of NSIA can see how it works.

There is a weigh in station, pretourney meeting which is mandatory and disputes will be handled by myself and two randomn fishers.

In no way is this intended to start an organization, it is intended to make a tourney happen before the next board meeting of NSIA. However, to be honest, if they don't go for it I may pursue it. It has been very fun so far other than this thread....Thanks alot Bob! haha...oh yeah I asked for permission.

There you go hope that quenches your fire!

Jim

We have much bigger fish to fry?
Jim, that does it for me.

You told me in your letter when you wanted to advertise this on ifish.net, Quote from Jim:
"...Honestly, some of the proceeds from this tournament will go to NSIA but the bulk will be retained by myself as I will be doing all of the work and absorbing all of the costs."

This sounded like a personal project, and yes, we did call NSIA.

Pete reports:
We contacted NSIA to see what their involvement was. They will not be involved until after Bain proves himself AND the NSIA board reviews and approves Jim's proposal. NSIA said they are not involved except that they are considering Jim's proposal at this time.

We check out all personal inquiries for advertising. We asked for information on the last biz you suggested to us for advertising consideration. Since you didn't supply it, we denied it. I have found that it is just good biz to follow up on things and be fully aware.

Good luck with the tourney.
... and please, do not contact ifish. We aren't involved.

Jen

Other than the crowded conditions and the high winds, fishing was good. Fishing is always good

Follow up questions:

Who should the checks be made out to?

Are there any published Rules and Regulations? If not, then I think that may be a big can of worms. We're not talking about chump change here and I would definatly want to see pulblished rules. I.E. encrouchment, gear, etc.

So we should not contact NSIA but Pete Morris from Ifish.net instead?

So if NSIA does not go for it, then this could possibly be a profitable venture on your own? Sorry it's just not clear to me yet regarding who is in charge of this tournament, a business, orginzation or private party?

Jen...NSIA has bigger fish to fry not ifish.

I asked if I could announce the tourney on your site not advertise...it is the same question I posed to Bob here on Piscatorial. I find it interesting that two other webmasters are so concerned?? What the?? Jen...you have asked for years that if anyone is upset with a post to please email...you can't do the same?? Hmmmm...oh well this thread is going way beyond fishing....fishing is competetive in a very fun sort of way! But webmasters competing on another board is not fun competetive. The tournament will go on if we get to 75 teams and I feel we have probably gotten all that we will get from this thread...YIKES. Jen...sorry but it seems if I smiled at you I would offend you.

Hey Bruce....I liked your post by the way...well done and had a professional feel.
I know that you know more about tournaments than I do, and if we were on better terms I would pick your brain but there are other sources that I will lean on.

Jim

All I really have to go on are the pictures provided by Mr. Pearson, but if those are any indication of the fishing pressure out there then I see no problem with shoehorning in a couple hundred more boats. I see a LOT of water in that picture that, if people put out there bumpers, could hold boats.

The benefits of a blanket of boats on top of the water are numerous.

• Trips to take your boat out of the hot seam for restroom breaks are no longer necessary, as you can walk from boat to boat to get to shore.
• No collisions when boats aren't moving.
• Additional anglers in town allow a much larger ratio of crackers...I mean...anglers to residents so that the looting and pillaging can go on without interruption.
• Waiting for the bite is made easier when you see the hooksets from the line bumps as the fish makes its way past the rods in front of you and to your offering.
• Drunks no longer fall into river, allowing the Coast Guard to concentrate on saving stupid surf walkers.

From what I understand the Wind River fishery is an amazing success if you go by the annual returns of crackers....I mean...fish to the area. The downside is the concentrated area from which an angler has to fish for these salmon. While I can envision salmon tourneys working in such large areas such as sections of the Columbia river or possibly buoy 10, going to an area that already has a problem with overcrowding and introducing a competitive fishery that goes way beyond the normal "a buck in for biggest fish" sounds like throwing a match into a powder keg.

Dave,
Thanks for the humor...much needed...Drano does have more room than just the "toilet bowl" pictures but it does get crowded. I would have loved to have had the opportunity to do this tourney at a different location...but time constraints limited us...plus the Big C was closed. All other tourneys are slated for much bigger water!!

Jim

I think the tournament idea bites. Too many people fishing to begin with, throw in a little competition and you got yourself quite the cluster ****. No offense to any of you guys but the idea just plain sucks.

Bain, bad idea at these two places, why not on Cowlitz or somewhere else? I'm fishin these places
4-5 days a week and there a freekin mad house on the weekends, weekdays almost as bad. Instead of rushin this thing through, have a steelhead tourny. in june or july on the cowlitz or salmon fishing tourny. at Astoria in august.Just my 2cents.

I think it is a good idea at a place like bouy 10 or westport that have the facilities to handle something like this. I think it is not so good at a place like the wind or drano where it could become worse than it already is because of the money being thrown around.
Just my thoughts
Peace Superfly

As someone who has fished competitively for bass, I think this is a great idea. It will bring good publicity to the sport, if the tournement is managed well. It also could potentially attract advertisers and sponsors to the sport (which is needed to provide $$$ to the sport fishing cause).

Yeah, it may generate a little crowding, but that's what contests do. If you are a good fisherman, and plan to be there that day, fork out the money and show them what you can do. Remember, being in a tourney doesn't give you any special rights to first water, you still have to put together a winning combination and catch fish, regardless of the number of people fishing. This is what separates the men from the boys.

Imagine turning loose a 12 pound chinook because you are looking for a "kicker" fish that will win you a tourney. It's not like bass fishing where you have a livewell and can "cull" for larger fish. These are fish you are killing. The decision to tag and kill a fish is a final one. It will be an interesting contest. Myself, I hope it goes well. Sportfishing needs a positive image. If this goes well, and generates some money to sportfishing intrests, It would be a good thing.

If you don't like tourneys, put you $$$ where you're mouth is and out fish those guys and make a little dough. Otherwise deal with the crowds, or fish somewhere else. Or just take up bass fishing.........Nobody fishes them thing around here anyways;)

Aaron

75 more boats at wind or drano!!!!

Dam don't think thats a good idea..

JimB- do you think 75 more boats would even be possible over and above what a mad house it already is?

Bouy 10 is way better idea...

TM

Got a good look at what tournament fishing does yesterday on the Willamette. The Columbia was still closed so everybocy was fishing the Willamette. Hoglines, trollers, sight seers, but, hey, it was no problem for anybody when the Bass Tourney boys launched their rockets and came right on through doing well over 60mph throwing 100'long rooster tails.

Loved the matching helmets! Can't wait to see a herd of V8 jet sleds at full howl descending on my favorite spot. Especially when the majority of proceeds will line a private individual's pockets (and I am not referring to the winner).

I agree, Jim, people are way too easily offended and prone to public comment when their opinions are publicly mis-represented. They are just blind to all the great pubic opinion that will come from seriously competitive sport fishermen operating high powered boats on public waterways. I am certain that the majority of average people will see this as another way to protect and preserve the resource, especially the donation of the excess kill.

Anybody know where I can get a good used sprint boat with a trolling bracket?

Yes, Jim asked permission to place the post and I granted it. Doesn't mean I think that this is the best way to show NSIA how a tourney can help ...

Personally, I think some form of a fundraising tourney is a good idea. Check out the Kenai River Classic for a well-run event that raises almost a MILLION dollars in three days!

Jim B. You have more patience than I. First let me ask are you by chance not a regular on this board? I am willing to bet a couple of cold beers that you are not a part of the GROUP. I would be safe to assume, that if you were a sworn in, true full blooded board member your name would be all over the front page of the hypocrite gazzette, the news of choice it seems around here. I dont know you, but my impression is your a thief, con artist, tax evader, outlaw, all around jerk o--. Thats the way it seems you are being portrayed in some of the responses. I however, with my .02 worth think you are doing what most dont SOMETHING.. In 95' as VP local T.U. chapter we had no funding for our net pen project. In 4 weeks I by myself put together the first Seacrest silver salmon derby. Tickets were $10.00 If I remember correctly Aunty Ms significant other won $300.00 First place, Ernie Rogers dad took second $200.00. I had prizes of cash,cds, charters,gear,outdoor emporium gift certificats, concert tckts from KISW,etc etc. I did all the calls for sponsorship picked up all the prizes by myself, spent a fair amount of cash on phone bills, missed work, gas for my rig, over hundred hours of My time, I got no help from anyone and I first called the guys that *****ed the most about no local fish around as our pen project was delayed release chinook, and coho that returned to the net pen, area for local fisherman. After all was said and done, and all expenses were paid, none of my costs were included in that dollar amount. I was able to provide 1,200$ to pay all the feed costs, for the remaining time we held the fish. I walked away with $23.65 cents left over. A week or so later I was confronted by some of the bithchers and whiners asking what happend to the excess dollars as rumour was I pocketed 20$ dollars for a not for profit salmon derby.I got no recognition from local or national T.U. And never went to another meeting again. POINT BEING. Your in for a uphill battle and this board will lead the charge. You have your work cut out for you and dont excpect any pats on the back, instead look out for the stab in the back. If you think that this could be a help for the fish and sportfisherman, and the WDFW guys dont F with you to bad then go for it. Document evey exspense and make duplicates. If I can be of help to you then email me at livn4fishn@webtv.net. This is my .02 worth and not to point the finger at any one person but just the way i see things in my shallow little mind

Fishin,
No I am not a regular but have been here longer than most. I expected this type of response and for the most part it has been positive. The board response has been far more negative than the email response.

Bob, thanks for sharing the Kenai Classic information! That is a wealth of inormation and knowledge it will be a resource as we muddle through all of this.

Timber, so far everyone that I know of that has thrown there hat into the pool are Wind or Drano regulars...so in theory we haven't added any new boats.

Now, if this tournament doesn't happen I want to thank all of you that have critically responded it allows me to know certain areas to be concerned about and to watch out for and to get more information about.

Thanks All!

Jim

First let me say that I am a little confused regarding the following statements made by Jim Bain in this thread.

Jim says “NSIA will be getting half of the proceeds, since I have never done this before I have no idea what the expenses will be.”

Jim says "...Honestly, some of the proceeds from this tournament will go to NSIA but the bulk will be retained by myself as I will be doing all of the work and absorbing all of the costs."

Jim says “In no way is this intended to start an organization, it is intended to make a tourney happen before the next board meeting of NSIA. However, to be honest, if they don't go for it I may pursue it.”

Jim says “All of this happening while NSIA earns nearly $500,000.00 in the process. We as sportsman would then finally have our first well funded lobbying organization...can you feel the winds of change??

Now, with that being said here is what I think are some high level views of the pros and cons.

Pros:

1) A well managed series of tournaments put on by a legitimate organization with the intent to help raise some funding for both the advocacy of the resource and the sport fisherman could be a good idea.

2) Some local business’s could get a much needed boost of income and exposure.

Cons:

1) Further commercialization for profit of and already strained resource is a bad idea.

2) Bad choices on tournament locations could bring some very negative exposure to the sport.

3) A poorly managed series of tournaments could result in even more negative exposure and possibly even prompt some lawsuits giving all sportsmen a bad reputation.

4) High risk for the abuse of the resource.

I have known Jim Bain for a number of years now and without going into details, I would have to say that given the confusing messages in this thread and also my lack of trust in this particular individual I could not support this idea. In my opinion this sounds like it is motivated purely for profit. I am not against making a buck, but I do believe that this resource is already over commercialized for profit and the potential for further abuse of the resource is to high. I don’t believe that for the most part, this would be in the best interest of salmon and sturgeon anglers. Especially if it is not done with a very high degree of professionalism, integrity and concern for both the resource and anglers in general.

I also think that this model being proposed could eliminate many anglers from participating. $200 basic entry fee and $40 for big fish tickets per boat is in my opinion to much. At 75 boats Jim stands to make a guaranteed $6000 from the basic entry fee alone. %100 of the Big fish tickets and any entry fees over the 75 boats will also go to Jim. The way I see it is BIG BUCKS to a private individual for a public resource. Also, all this is at little or no risk to Jim because if at least 75 boats do not enter then the tournament is cancelled with only a few days notice.

I would rather see the entry fees reduced to a reasonable amount and the show must go on. Rather than having a fixed payout for tournament, the payout should be a percentage of the entry fees with a percentage also going to cover expenses for time and material to put on the tournament.

Those are my thoughts

Correction: After re-reading the entry from, it is not clear how much the big fish payout will be. So it is unclear how much profit if any will be made from the big fish tickets sales.