A guy at work was telling me that 570 KVI had a story about a dad who took his kid fishing on the Snohomish river and got ticketed for using live bait, he was fishing with worms.

Anyone have the link online to this story.

jeezzzz hope they dont catch me sturgeon fishin down by the sloughs then cause about 5 nitecrawlers work great.
mike

This story ran in our local paper (Woodinville/Duvall). I guess it got pretty out of hand -- the prosecutor initially was pressing for a felony conviction and jail time. No kidding.

I think the dad ended up paying a $75 fine, and it is unclear whether or not he got a felony, or misdeeanor, or any, conviction.

Regards.

Mike
Woodinville

ok finally found the link

http://www.nwnews.com/editions/20020805/nnfront3.html

The knucklehead was fishing in the Crummy (NOT the Snoho) with bait, during a no-bait season. What did he honestly expect????

Ignorance, is no excuse for the law. Toss the book at him.

Damn whiners.

According to the article,the prosecutor waived the jail term.200 bucks and a few hours of community service do not seem too harsh.The permanent criminal record might be a little harsh,though.Maybe he pissed the prosecutor off by refusing to accept responsibilty for his actions.

Blaming the guy that sold him worms?I guess it's not a snaggers fault for using trebles because they are legal to purchase also.

This story seems to be the result of "tabloid" journalism,work up the readership without boring them with the complete story.

About the only value of the story was to observe Toby Nixon's willingness to jump on the bandwagon.

They should throw the book at him.

I was there when the game warden gave a guy a ticket for fishing Pilchuck creek with worms. Not only was he fishing with worms,but he had about 5 trout or should I say smolts/parr about 5" long on a stick. When most people get their fishing licenses they also get a copy of the regs and then they read them. I hope they do.

When you go fishing you should know where you are going and what is legal.

Alright! Throw the book at that S.O.B. How dare he use worms in no-bait water! (Extreme sarcasm). Dear lord, give me a break! Is that the very best our Game Wardens can do? Bust a guy for using worms in no-bait waters while he's trying to show his kid how to fish and then turn the whole thing into a dog and pony show by trying to press the case as a felony?! Hey, here's an idea for Law enforcment officers in general..... How about going after some REAL Criminals for a change?

I say, "Throw the book at 'em." This would be a great example for others to learn by. At least some of the sorry a$$ poachers are getting caught!

Reminds me of a near ticket my buddy and I got last June. We were fishing Johnson Pt. He had just landed a nice Blackmouth and was starting to bleed the fish when the Gamie pulls alongside. She starts to recite the "immediately upon catching a legal fish...catch record card." From the time I netted the fish, to the time we bled the fish, was no more than three minutes. She was alongside with a minute after that that... Pretty anal if you ask me, but I when she saw our CRCs, she know that we record our fish. He got a stern written warning... me too! I owned the boat....

Downriggin'

I hear ya ZO. How dare those game wardens write tickets to folks breakin' the law. Makes it awful tough to line salmon and poach game outta season don't it.

they gave a written warning 3 minutes out of the net? i would honestly crinkle it up and throw it to the floor in front of there face!!! ive had cops threaten to put me under arrest, blah blah blah, like this ruston cop looks at my club between my seat and asks if i like baseball and im like, whats he talking about then he goes im looking at that concealed weapon right there..i say you can see it cant you, so he gave me a warning to get my tire fixed...had nothing on me...jus scare tactics...**berkley boy**

Yeah 4salt, We won't get into the lining and the poaching issues.... You obviously already know where I sit on the fish lining issue. Fact of the matter is, we've got guys making Meth in portable labs all over the countryside, we've got people getting robbed left and right, peoples rigs are getting broken into, little girls are being kidnapped and killed everytime I turn on the news, the court wants to try a "bait in a no-bait area" case as a felony?! Yeah, using bait in a no-bait area is wrong if you go by the letter of the law, but is it a felony? Look at it this way, you can typically plead a first or even a second offense for drug possession down to a misdemeanor. Even most cases of theft can be pled down. All I'm saying is that with all the really BAD things that are going on out there and with all the truly BAD people out there, it was extremely petty and in my opinion, unprofessional of the Prosocuting Attorney to even think about shooting for a felony conviction on something as frivolous as a "bait in a no-bait area" case. My problem lies more with the prosocuter than with the arresting officer.... Sure, if you really want to be a total tighta$$ about it, then give the guy a ticket, but the whole situation should never have gone as far as it did.

Yeah, I agree that the prosecution probably went a little overboard with this, and it seems that the media coverage was sensationalized as well. However, why couldn't the father teach his son to fish in a lake that was OPEN to fishing with bait? Also, we're talking GAME WARDENS here. At what point did they start chasing murderers and child molesters around? They enforce GAME LAWS!

Dude, why is it that only people that are continually looking to get away with something are the ones that complain about law enforcement? If ABIDING by the law, makes me a tightass, Hey, I can live with that.

Defense's case

"Live bait your Honor seems to be the reason for the ticket. So I ask__when is a worm considered to be dead bait? Just because it wiggles, does that mean it is still alive--its got a damn hook impaled from it's head and out it's arse____your Honor"

"throw the book at em" pretty harsh. Im sure you drive 60mph because its posted. If your going 61 you are asking to have the book thrown at you.Im sure you have never hooked kings out of season and have never taken pictures and posted them, eh. This went a wee bit too far, Im sure most would agree. This kid is probably traumatized and will freak on the site of a worm. "nooooo Daaaaaddy--" With a hand slap the Dad, the kid would have a lesson learned experience. I have seen much worse on the river that time of an F&W officer could write tickets.

I am not looking to get away with anything but I sure have a couple of complaints about law enforcement for ya. :p

Prosecutors Case:

Here are the facts:

Dude takes his kid fishing and uses worms provided at local tackle shop.

Dude, who can't read, and is "ignorant", ignores the bait ban and catches some "trout", ie smolts. Nice bonding experience for Jr. Watch Daddy break the law.

Here's are the facts that my crack team of forensics officers (ie, me) just uncovered. Thank Glub for CSI, as they learned a lot from that show!

Dude cutplugs the trout and catches some ESA SnoCrummy King Salmon. Or, if cutplug smolts are not working, he wrapps his K-15's with smolt fillets.

Dude cutplugs the ESA Kings and uses them to fish for the local SnoCrummy ESA Taimen.

Dude takes the ESA Taimen, sticks an Owner 19/0 hook in it's back and uses it to lure in the ESA SnoCrummy White Shark.

ESA White Sharks eats his kid (ever see Jaws? It could happen!).

Dude cashes in the $7,634 life insurnace policy he took out against his kid. Takes the money and runs away with his neighbors wife's sister...which was later proven, by DNA experts, to be his Mother's cousins sister.

Fortunately, we now know the real truth, as Jr. is still alive, and this evil plot was unfoiled by heroic WDFW officers.

I, for one, call poaching ESA fish, attempted murder, and racketeering a "felony". I'd be willing to plea-bargain down to a $75 fine, though.

OK Parker that was funny!!!!

Thanks to Parker and ZoZo for adding a little perspective....
DFW new priorities:
Cig butts thrown overboard or on the ground? 20 days community service picking up litter.
Tow rig out of compliance (use of fog lights on public roads, bumpers above max height allowance, seen blocking left lane on freeway)? Immediate impoundment and straight into the crusher.
Two-stroke motor running a little rich? Ditto.
Laws are laws, by God!
Ignorance (Stupidity) should hurt.(Props to Leadthrower)

One problem with your theory though 'chrome, ignorance and stupidity ARE NOT the same. If you don't know any better, you are ignorant. If you know better and do it anyway, you are STUPID.

p.s. Parker, you've been watching a lot of Court TV lately huh? :p

Discretion.

Although I appreciated Parker's response the most - for entertainment value, I think the F&W agent could have done a better job exercising discretion. Agents meet all kinds, and I think they develop a reasonable sense and ability to detect the truly clueless from those who just don't give a damn about the fishing regulations. In this case, a father with a son with a Snoopy fishing pole seems to be a likely candidate for the clueless catagory who probably had no idea he was breaking the law, and who possibly wouldn't or couldn't understand why there would be such a law. Unless there is more to the story than we've been told, it appears this might have been the time and place for the F&W agent to explain the regulation, and why such a regulation is important, and just issue the guy a written warning (written, so that he understands it really is a state offense and carries potentially severe penalties) and let it go at that. If we ended up to two more informed citizens and anglers that day, then the agent's mission might have been well done.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

4salt,
I agree with your post...either way, the penalties are stiff!
Ignorance: Failure to gather proper information.
Stupidity: Failure to process proper information.

Just trying to draw comparison between a father teaching his son to fish with worms and other equally egregious felonies.

Where have you been Salmo?

PARKER,

Right on and TOO FUNNY. By the way,
Moley wouldn't let Sok take that cutt. to bed, so
he canned it.

Thanks for the tip, I'll stop by the Mill Creek office and see if there is a way they can accept
his catch for the record.

Cigar

There's probably a lot more to this story than what you all have read. A simple glance at the reg's wil inform anyone that no bait was allowed and barbless hooks were required. The issue of live bait is a nonissue as bait is bait. Sounded like the guy had himself and 2 others fishing....a ticket for both violations times 3 equals bout 1000 bucks. The laws the law and its mandatory upon us fishers to read the reg's and follow them. There's nothing cryptic about a reg that says no bait and no barbed hooks. The references to criminal record and the inferences about live bait, different interpetations of what happened and such seem typical of the arguments I hear from many guys who got busted. I'll place my trust in what the officer found and wrote up rather than the snivels of a law violater and politician. Tough Dog Dooodooo!

I almost feel I need to retract my earlier statement. Salmo g hit it on the head with his post. Then again, the law is the law. However, it seems that in this day and age, one really needs to be online for the current regs (changes). (What about the less fortunate?) (Sure there's always the phone, but again....) I feel like tossing a coin at this point.

When I was warned, I really wanted to be a smart a$$ and ask, " Next time, you want me to record the catch or bonk the fish first?" I held my tongue. After all, the rule reads,
"immediately."

(1) Is there a definite answer or, is the "gamie" allowed to use discretion? Personally, I feel we need specifics on the borderline issues...
(2) Of all the places I have been fortunate to fish around the world, why is it that WA has the worse regs to decipher? My two cents...

Downriggin'

The specifics of a situation are based on how you react to the officer, if you are respectful and he[or she] can tell you are dumb you would usually get a warning. If you are a butthead as to mask your innate dumbness you will usually get written up.

Jerry, some wardens act like frustrated policeman wannabes. I have seen it. Regardless of how you react, they can be real jerks. Give them a hat, badge and a gun, and watch out.Granted that is the exception, but in this article, if the encounter description is true, this whole thing is complete garbage and got totaly out of hand.Sounds like the game guy was having a bad day...

The Guy was using a Snoopy pole!!!! A real big time poacher here should throw the book at him. Maybe rather than going through all the stuff ticket and court date, moneys spent putting this big time poacher in jail for his crime and all thim the warden could be catching som real poachers. A warning right here could have saved the department a lot of precious resourses. And made the world safe from maybe harming a Smolt

One detail I didn't see was whether or not he had fish on the bank. IMHO if there wasn't any, then give him a written warning. No harm, no foul. Another thing to look at is whether this guy has bought a license before or if he was a rookie. It sounds like he made a rookie mistake. I would bet that everyone on this board would agree that the first time they opened the reg book for WA state that they were confused. I still get confused after all these years.
It's too bad that this 6 year old boy's first impression of a gamie was probably not favorable. They have a tough enough job with the jerks out there, and they don't need to bring up our future fishermen thinking that they are a bunch of hard a$ses.
I live out in the Meth lab capitol of Pierce county. These scumbags get away with murder out here and the police's hands are tied. Then again, most tweakers probably don't fish. Maybe we'll put the worm fishermen in the same cell as the guys who tear the tags off their mattresses.

I would bet my last dollar that this officers initials are BC. He patrols the Sno and has a bad case of short mans disease. He has a pi** poor attitude towards people even if your within the law.
He harassed me a few years ago on the Raging.
It was in the Fall and I was fishing light tackle for steelies.( straight 6lb ) I started up high on the river and worked my way down and came to one of the last holes before it dumps into the Sno.
He pulls up in his truck and jumps out like his pants are on fire and ask me what the hell I'm doing?
Fishing for Steelhead was my reply.
You sure your not snagging Salmon he asked?
I replied that no I do believe that my gear is much to light to snag old boot salmon.
He told me that if I'd been 100 yards up river or down river this would not be a problem.
But since I just happened to be fishing a drift that has had alot of poeple snagging fish that he has a problem with me fishing here.
I finally cut my gear off and and broke my rod down and told him to stuff it, I was completely legal and I'd be giving Mr. Peck at Mill Creek a call about his public relations rep.
This is just my 2 cents worth on this person.
Not all Gammies are jerks.

Please note that this reply is not intended to affend anyone and no fish were harmed in the writing of this reply!

Parker, you are too funny sometimes!

So, what's it gonna be? Are you guys having a Justin or a Justine?

Or....is it really going to be named Parker Parker.

Not to stretch the topic toooo far, but i have heard a couple of times that not one person has been convicted of a felony for killing or wounding another person in a "hunting accident" even though wearing Hunters orange since 1950 in the state of Washington, but the amount of seized property for shooting a doe during buck season is more than we will all see in a lifetime.

just interesting perspective.

Found this while milling through the WDFW site...

...Just thought I'd toss it in.

TL/WN
Camo

this is what i don't get, the warden had time to pop that guy fishing with bait in closed waters. i don't think a criminal case was necessary. But when i go to les davis pier to fish bobbers for kings, i'm constanly seeing people who either don't speak english or don't understand the regs keepin' buckets of salmon smolts. i've called the wardens every time and nobody ever shows. i finally started takin' buckets and dumping over.
5 trout doesn't seem so bad after seeing all those poached smolts

KidSauk - If it's a "Justine", I won't let her any where near you! One of my favorite movie lines is from Clueless:

"I own a .45 and a shovel. I doubt any one will miss you." Heh. That will be my new .sig if we are having a Parkerette!



If it's a Justin, we'll teach it to cast before it's learned how to walk! It will be rowing me down the Calawah by age 7 (Bob promised me rowing lessons for Jr.) Will be guiding by age 9!

August 22nd is the appointment for the Ultrasoundgarden. Hopefully, we'll find out on that day what it is. I'm just hoping for a NORMAL baby, and not some mutated X-Files beast.

Parker

If it comes with ten fingers and ten toes call yourself lucky.

Of course being male I am sure your vote goes for the little Parker rather then Parkerette.