Hard to believe, but I just got back from a drive through the Blue Creek parking lot this morning. I lost count at 125+ boat trailers/with rigs and gave up counting all the other "single rigs" (around 118) at the trail head and parking area in front of rearing ponds.

That's over 243 rigs on a Sunday!

I' Just can't wait to see what the Christmas through New Year week will look like!

Don't say I didn't forewarn the meek!! It will not be a "pretty picture" The best advise that I can give; make sure you are fully insured if you intend on taking your boat fishing on the Cowlitz that week…your going to need it!

Oh ya, don't forget your flack jackets either if you intend to bank it

3000 cfps That many boats,no thanks.

Should get out the digi cam and take some pix for us to see.

People are friggin nuts.

Id rather go out in my back yard all dressed up in my waders and what not and cast in a make believe river. It would be far less stressfull and a better experience overall.

Yeah they're nuts, but remember this (THANK GOD FOR THE MIGHTY COW PIE), because they would all be "somewhere else" without it.

Well said Rich!!

No. I don't believe it is worth it. I refere to my post...What is your motivation?

Why do you imagine all those boats and bankies are there?? Gee, could it have anything to do with the fact that the Cowlitz is the ONLY fishable water in the state right now? Every other river is blown out, with some nearing or just cresting flood stage. They're there because it's the only game in town, and even a bad day of fishing is better than sitting home doing honey-dos.

No brainer.

you called it minibear...i think thats why the cow is on my "favorite rivers list" and i have never fished there before.

Hey CF, if the Cow is so bad (returns this year according to you) and is so over crowded, why do you continue going there, you are really beginning to sound like a broken record, why not post something new for a change

I now fully understand you AkKings!

Normally I would not lower myself to your level, but sometimes we need to do it so that everyone else can understand simple little "nip" posts such as yours!

You may or may not know that I was also a guide not that many years ago on the Cowlitz. Since you have chosen not to reveal your true identity, like I have done, so be it!

Board members will draw their own conclusions.

I have chosen to let our readers know who I am, and what I have done besides just making money off them ( like some persons only care to do). Do you still believe that it is "ok" to tell lies about fishing , and how great it is to catch fish when they may not even be their on the Cowlitz, or do you even care?

What experience, besides you limited time of guiding, to you have to share with this board about the Cowlitz? Have you spent hundred of cold hours raising fish, so that all others can enjoy catching them here? Did you spend more then 5 minutes during the relicensing process (6years) to assure all your clients and the other fishermen that the "Cowlitz" will remain a viable fishery in the future…I think not…No, I know you have not!

So tell us AkKings, What have you done for the fishery on the Cowlitz other then just being a "taker"? Do you tell us when fishing is bad…I don't think so! All I hear from you is pure lip service and nothing else. If am I wrong, please tell me and this board what you have done to "improve" the sport fishery on the Cowlitz River, other then just taking from it.

Turkey day is gone, but some turkeys are still just goblin!

By the way, I live here (on the Cowlitz) and most likely will die here. I have spread both my father and mothers ashes back into the Cowlitz, and that should tell you something about my beliefs. This is a great river even those it does have its problems. I will continue to tell and inform this board of what I believe is the truth about the Cowlitz River, and its fishery, and how we can resolve those problems.

Theirs more to fishing then just making money off of it!

Cowlitzfisherman

Damn CF it sounds like your married to the COW PIE. Lighten up guys this is obviously a sensitive subject to CF. I think it's cool you care so much about her though, but always talking about how horrible the fishing is going to be this year and how this is the first year of the downward spiral for the cow pie ( I hope that don't offend you when I refer to her as that) isn't going to change anything. Here's an idea if the lack of funds are there to keep the hatchery producing the amount of fish as the good ol days how about a launch fee! to add some extra green backs to the Mighty Cow Pie. You and I both know NO money NO fishies. If you care so much why don't you look into something like a parking fee at blue creek. Sounds like today the owner of that parking and boat ramp could've made a fortune. What do you think?

BRAVO CF!!!

If it wern't for stewards of the resource like yourself there would be no resource left.
There has been far too much taking of the resource and not enough given back to it.

Minibear, your kind of right in a way!

I have made "a commitment" to the Cowlitz many years ago and I will not renege on it!

After all, it was for you and I and every other sport fishermen. You have asked me some good questions so I need to give you a few good answers. The married one has already been answered, so let's get on to #2; talking about "her good fishery", when was the last time that you can recall that the Cowlitz had a "good fishery" on the early winter run steelhead?

There are already plenty of fishermen out there that are already being pulled into the "hook" from the good old days, so why would anyone else want to put any more pressure on a river that is already undergoing a recovery (Settlement Agreement and words from Salmo G)?

No one can say that "they" would want to to be the "ones" who called in the "pack" if the Cowlitz was luckly enought to get a good run of fish (hell, Tacoma Power and the Seattle news papers, and Barrier Dam have already done that…right?) Has anyone else on this board ever called in the "pack" on their most favorite fishing spot…I don't think so! The "downward spiral is a "fact" that is part of the new 35 year Tacoma Power operating license on the Cowllitz. Plain and simple, early winter run steelhead WILL be (and is being) phased out! Salmo G has already told this board the same thing!

No, Minibear, you have not offended me with your questions. It's not about the "lack of funds" now, because Tacoma, WDFW and NMFS have already made a Final Settlement Agreement concerning that issue. Neither "Tacoma" nor the State can "charge" any new "fees" now for what is already agreed to in the 2000 Settlement Agreement.

Finally, you asked me; "If you care so much why don't you look into something like a parking fee at blue creek". Believe me Mininbear, I spent the last 6 years of my life looking into every possible thing that would be done to maintain our current fishery! If someone else thinks that I have not…let's hear from them now!

Again, thanks for asking me your questions in a civil way, it really makes a difference in how one replies.

Cowlitzfisherman

CFM,

Yikes! Careful what statements you attribute to me. I don't think WDFW is phasing OUT the early winter run. My understanding is that if hatchery production is to be reduced, WDFW has decided the main reduction will come from the early winter steelhead program. In the ESA section 10 permit NMFS wrote for the Cowlitz and other lower Columbia hatcheries, I think WDFW was advised to increase production of late winter runs for the steelhead recovery program. There is still a lot of opportunity for early winter steelhead hatchery production. The main limitation is that the early steelhead cannot be transported to the upper river basin for natural spawning because of stock genetic issues.

There are other changes WDFW could make that would continue a productive early steelhead fishery. Maintaining the hatchery coho program at 4.3 million smolts to prop up the lower Columbia River gillnet fishery should come to a halt. That fishery is about as relevant as a dinosaur, but change doesn't seem to come easy. That program could be cut back to just augment the ocean coho fishery, with the return going to the river recreational fishery and escapement. The gillnet fishery is obsolete. Mind you, I'm not against gillnet fishing when and where it makes sense. But the lower Columbia gillnet fishery helps prevent recovery of wild coho and other runs. That is why I think it should be cut back and the hatchery space it uses should be re-allocated to other production.

We'll get there, CFM, but you know all the good changes only come with a long fight.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

What good is a parking fee going to do if it just goes into the general fund.
I think that if all the money generated by sportsmen,from buying liscenses and what not,went to hunting and fishing related projects there would be more than enough money to take care of the fisheries related problems on the Cowlitz.
Oh ya,if you park at the mission launch.I-5,or Olequa,your already paying a parking fee.Which I understand is going to Quadruple next year.Lets see how much that helps.
I honestly dont know too much about this funding stuff.But if your looking for answers about them,talk to Cowlitzfisherman.If he doesnt have the answers I'd bet money he knows where to get them.
Bob,I hope you dont mind me referring to you about this.
I just know that your way more involved and informed on this stuff than any hundred other fisheman I know.

Is it worth it? I don't know. How was the fishing at BC on Sunday? If it was the bloodbath that I've seen in years past, then "Hell yes, it's worth it"

Salmo, let's not forget what the "Settlement Agreement" really says, and the power and weight that it WILL CARRY! You need to reread the fine print! Under part 6 of the Settlement; (Guidance for Future Interpretation and Decision-Making) this is stated:

6.1.4 "The emphasis of this Agreement is ecosystem integrity and the restoration and recovery of wild, indigenous salmonid runs, including ESA-listed and unlisted stocks, to harvestable levels." And 2; "ESA constraints will be a factor in determining the upper bound of production at the remodeled hatchery complex. Hatchery production numbers are expected to be adjusted downward as wild stocks recover."
6.1.5 "Fisheries management and hatchery production will be consistent with the overall goal of restoring and recovering wild stocks in the Cowlitz River basin".

And finally, the final [Bleeeeep!]-bit that fully supports what I have been trying to tell you guys has finally been verified by what the PCHB (Pollution Control Hearing Board) has just ruled on for Tacoma Cowlitz River 401 permit. It may be new to you because the 69 page PCHB ruling just came out late Friday. And I quote from page 41; "…The rational for the 1988 Agreement" (winter fishing flow agreement) "was to provide flows for the "early winter-run" steelhead, which return in the months of December to February. The hatchery produced early winter-run steelhead (a none-indigenous species) WILL BE PHASED OUT to promote the strengthening of the native late winter-run steelhead. The time frame for late returning winter -run steelhead is in March and May. A small amount may return earlier, but not in any numbers sufficient for sports fishing…"

Salmo, this was a judicial decision and ruling made by the PCHB that was formed from the sworn testimony and statements that were made during hearing by WDFW staff! It appears that it's "only you" that still believes that the early winter- run steelhead programming will be maintained.

I'll rest my case!!

Akking , thanks again for your private email explaining why you said what you did! So I will try to show this board WHY I wrote about the "traffic jam at Blue Creek". You asked me in your above post to post something new. You said; "you are really beginning to sound like a broken record, why not post something new for a change". Fair enough!

They say that pictures are worth a million words, so if these pics come out (taken at 9:30 Sunday), they will certainly tell the story. At the very lease, they will represent "something new for a change". Then maybe the poor uninformed fishermen who hasn't been there or has not yet been "harden" to this type of a "combat fishery", may get lucky and choose not to his take his family (or boat) into this type of jeopardy!

For years now, many of us have heard about the "Blue Creek combat zones", but have not really seen why it has been called so. Remember, the parking area is only about 8 acres, and appears to be jammed packed with about 243 rigs. It pretty safe to "assume" that each rig probably will represent at lease 2 persons per rig on the average. That would mean that you are now looking at over 486 fishermen attempting to catch…how many fish???

During the Christmas through New Years weekend, it is almost certain that there will be at lease another hundred or more rigs there each day. Like I said earlier, is it really worth it???

I am not at my best when it comes to posting pictures on the web, so I will make an attempt to show you just how crowded Blue Creek is. I hope it comes out (but don't count on it!)! Since I can't review the picture on my post, please be patience, us self taught guys take a little longer to learn this stuff!







Most of these pitures don't show or reveal that many of these cars and rigs are 3 cars deep!

So does anyone know if Blue Creek remains to be packed like this weekend on this fair weather Monday? Was anyone shot at ? Are lots of fish starting to be caught by the ones who venture into this zoo? I can hardly imagine what it will be like around christmas if there were already 250 vehicles up there on Saturday and Sunday.