Good, we're in agreement then.

"nearest thing to hell that there is on this planet."

AM, that's almost a word for word quote by one of the soldiers in Iraq. And Dan, no I have the History Channel too but this is the Military Channel. They have several serials on Iraq but one in particular is following the grunts both there and when they return wounded. I don't see it every week though.

"Off to War"

Discovery Times Channel.

I have the distinct priviledge of sitting in on video-teleconferences between the I Corps CG and commanders in theater. From what I learn during those briefings I can unequivocally conclude that Napoleon is clueless on this subject.

Thank you, and good night.

Now there is some breaking news! Next you are going to tell us the earth isn't flat right?!

Dang it I have to Agree with you this soon in the year..... well said and I will be the first to say it needs to come to a conclusion.

Although I dont doubt the accuracy of the poll. I can agree with a slight drop among active duty support. It would be nice know if it was evenly spread between the different services. Because I'm quite sure you would get slightly different numbers depending on the service you polled, since not all services have the same deployment lengths, some use more reservist or National guard than others. I'm sure their are many other variables, but those are the ones that jump out at me. Just my thoughts

Tony Snow and Charlie Daniels are irrelevant to me, but I thought Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff had it bassackwards in his criticism of Congressman John Murtha. Gen. Pace should have leveled his criticism at President Bush.

After all, Murtha simply said, "The miliatary had no problem recruiting directly after 9/11 because everyone understood that we had been attacked. But now the millitary's ability to attract recruits is being hampered by the prospect of prolonged, extended and repeated deployments; inadequate equipment; shortened home stays; the lack of any connection between Iraq and the brutal attacks of 9/11; and - most importantly - the administration's constantly changing, undefined, open-ended military mission in Iraq."

Because of this common knowledge, Murtha, a 37 year Marine veteran, said if he were eligible to join the military today he would not, nor would he expect others to join. Gen. Pace's position appears to be that of, "my country right or wrong" America's young men and women are obligated to serve our country by joining the military when it's commanded by an administration bent on military misadventure. Congressman Murtha, on the other hand, is representing the very best of independent thinking and free will, that young people with critical thinking skills just might choose to set aside what otherwise might have been an intention to serve in the military at this point in their lives precisely because the military is presently commanded by a president who does not evoke loyalty toward either himself or his mission.

I think Murtha's comments were absolutely the right thing to say if he believes his own words, as I do. Young people join the military for a variety of reasons, patriotism, wanting a break between high school and higher education, parents convince them they need some experience with discipline and structure, educational financial assistance, lots of reasons. But those young people can also think and analyze and weigh those reasons against the prospects of becoming participants in a military misadventure that doesn't square with their personal values.

It's the perfect scenario. I have always thought wars should be fought by people who believe in them, not by people who don't believe in them and are unwilling participants. Reminds me of the Vietnam era saying, "What if they gave a war and nobody came?" It could be that a voluntary military is exactly the best way for our country to avoid military misadventures that the population that would have to fight them can say, "No thanks," at least the prolonged ones.

"It's the perfect scenario. I have always thought wars should be fought by people who believe in them, not by people who don't believe in them and are unwilling participants. Reminds me of the Vietnam era saying, "What if they gave a war and nobody came?" It could be that a voluntary military is exactly the best way for our country to avoid military misadventures that the population that would have to fight them can say, "No thanks," at least the prolonged ones.


I agree it would be real easy to just leave the country and go to one that does not belive in war. Try and find one that did not gain the freedoms you enjoy at the operational end of a fire arm. Talk about living in la la land.

"I have the distinct priviledge of sitting in on video-teleconferences between the I Corps CG and commanders in theater. From what I learn during those briefings I can unequivocally conclude that Napoleon is clueless on this subject.

Thank you, and good night"


I doubt sitting in on a con call about shipping groceries and TP has much to do with this topic.

Military misadventures, by definition, are not wars that directly affect the national security interests of the nation. (take Vietnam, for instance, take Iraq, for instance, . . .) When the nation is attacked, or national security is at stake, Americans volunteer and step up to the task. Notice that military recruitment was not reported as a problem after 9/11 and the focus was on Afghanistan and OBL. Only after news about Iraq having no connection to 9/11 and manipulation of intelligence and an Iraq war situation with no idea of what success looks like, then Americans have second thoughts about joining the military, demonstrating their ability to think and act independently of their loose cannon president. I think it's the prez and KT that live in la la land.

Imagine what would happen if the press where behind the effort? Imagine what would happen if people where informed about the real issues Re; "radical Islam"

Take WWII and treat it the same way Iraq and the war on terror are being treated in this country and you would be speaking German or Japanese today.

Americans do not have a need that they cannot fill by going out and buying something or getting the govt. to provide it. A by product of that is a short attention span and a need to push aside any discomfort. It would be a big mistake to swallow what you hear,see and feel as validation of your opinions and feelings.

TK, for the last time, this isn't WWII no matter how much you wish it were. Nobody is marching on the world. In fact not one dang country was invaded until we did the invading. Are you comparing us to Nazi Germany or something?

Oh I forgot Stlhd gets to frame the discussion to his liking. Maybe I should just PM you my posts for approval first?

It would sure cut down on the idiotic posts here.

Yeah, KT, could ya' do that? Like Harley suggests, it sure would improve the IQ of this forum.

Funny I was sure he was talking about you and the other doorknobs here.

Actually, I was thinking, along the lines of Gen. Pace's criticism of Murtha being misplaced, that it really is the administration that undermines national readiness for defense. People are less inclined to opt for military service if they believe the administration is not using the military for the highest priority of national defense. Murtha's remarks are so right on the money I'm surprised that there hasn't been significant media and editorial follow-up. Pace, if he didn't have to suck up to the administration, should be criticizing the prez, not Murtha.

"People are less inclined to opt for military service if they believe the administration is not using the military for the highest priority of national defense."

Talk about a leap in logic. It's the people not joining for the slackers lifestyle and college education bennies. The guys like GH that were option limited out of HS. With the economy adding all those jobs a Burger King they can be safe flipping burgers and smoking rope rather that really having to do something. I think that people that really believe in this country what it stands for are still signing up like they did before. You America haters "which btw usually work for the govt. or a govt. contractor" want to always beleive the worst about the president. The right haters had the same excuse when clinton was president. Except then I think the slackers signed upo in droves and the real mene did something else.

Kids sure have changed since I joined the army.

Now they are "people that really believe in this country what it stand for".

And I read just the other day where our troops in Iraq are America's "finest young men and women."

We weren't like that when I joined the army. We didn't believe in the country more than average people. Or at least I never heard anybody talk like they did the years I was in the army.

And we sure weren't America's finest young men and women. We were pretty average, really. We joined up for all sorts of reasons. But all and all, we were just average guys.