OK, now I get it, Natives clear cutting is bad, Oregonians clearcutting is GOOD!!

Christ, my dog learns faster than you do.

I have seen the logging industry and commercial fishing industry first hand. After NAFTA, my best choice as a young man without an education and no family trust fund to draw from was to go North. In hindsight, i now recognize that both of these industries need serious reform in order for the resources to continue for future generations. your argument is simply, don't let the natives do it, because the white man deserves it more. That's why your argument is ridiculous.

Since you can't answer my question about Alaskan land allocation, I'll help you out a little. Tongass is 16-17 million acres. SE Alaska is 97% federally owned. 80% of SE AK is in the Tongass and is managed by the US Forest service. One third of the Tongass is considered harvestable commercial timber lands. 16% of the Tongass (1/2 of the 1/3) is low volume timber lands (due somewhat to clearcutting). 4% of the Tongass is left of the original Old growth forests, and you want to cut that down too. How much of that, say roughly 5 million acres did the Natives get??

You are either quite dense, or pretending to not savvy my posts again....


Are you trying to make people think 96% of the Tongass has been clear-cut ?

Do you think a clear-cut lasts forever ?

MUCH of the area logged in the old days (+/- 1950's in this case) in the Tongass is nearing marketable size again........

I don't like the way the Native corporations log vast areas clean because there is a big hit on the game populations, modern forestry/logging methods would encourage smaller clear-cuts spread over a wide area which lessens the overall impact. I also don't like to listen to a bunch of balogna about how the Natives care for their lands, a very high percentage of the individuals I met are only concerned with the dollar amount of their next dividend check........and *****ing about the white men cutting down their trees ! (These are the owners of the corporation who hired the white men to cut the trees down!)

There are also quite a few Natives who work for the logging companies, but not enough to keep the work in house............

"Are you trying to make people think 96% of the Tongass has been clear-cut ?"

read the post again, I'm saying that the Tongass is 16-17 million acres. Only one third of the Tongass has forest lands as the rest of it is glacier, ice, muskeg, scrub forest. The remaining 33% is considered commercial quality timber, half of that is low yield timber (16%) and 4% of the total of the Tongass is old growth.

So why can you clear cut it and not the natives, a clear cut is a clear cut. The best way would be to selective cut it, even though it's harder and less yeilding than the clear cut. You keep saying that the Natives clear cutting methods are bad, however the FS lands are a much larger percentage than the natives, so the FS takes many more trees, but that is not enough for you, you don't like natives cutting those trees, because that means you don't get to cut them.

Before you post again that I don't understand you, the reason I don't agree is that I am 100% certain that the Natives have not dropped every single tree on their reservations. That is just too stupid to even remark to. If you have proof of an entire reservation without 1 single tree standing on it, show me a picture and I'll concede.

That's what I hear..

The trees being harvested by the Natives are cut by me and guys like me...

If you want to guess as to what has been done, and beat your chest about it at that, then go ahead, I'm not motivated enough by this conversation to do your research for you.....I was speaking from experiance and personal observation.

AuntyM,

I don't know how you jumped to my not wanting women to think or work, I only opined that a mother needs to raise her own kid, preferably with her husband, rather than send it to daycare.


I have been mightily impressed by a few hard working women, I only hope they didn't have a kid somewhere in daycare at the time........

I think Black people are just exactly that, and they seem to have as many bad apples running around as any other color of people..........

Why are you trying to paint me as a bad guy, do you get a rush out of typing mean things ?

Aunty,
Took the words right out of my fingertips.

"I have been mightily impressed by a few hard working women, I only hope they didn't have a kid somewhere in daycare at the time........ "

So what does a family do when the father already has two or three jobs and they don't want to use welfare to make up for the things they NEED but can't afford?

"So mothers, gay men, and tribal members shouldn't have equal rights..."

Guess it's time to add the poor.

The people you mentioned have equal rights already, why do you want to single them out for special rights ?

I'm not saying there should be a law that mothers can't work, I'm saying if people don't want to raise kids then they should not get pregnant.....

How is my opinion that Natives should not be allowed to rape the wild resources (timber,fish,game,etc...) even if their ancestors did it ?

Should I be allowed to run a splashdam logging operation just because some white guy did it back in the day ?

If a guy is working more than 40hrs per week and still can't make enough to feed his family, then why did he have them ?

Who would take a job that won't pay enough to live on..........why ?

If a person just turns out to be a looser, does that make it right for them to bring a new life into the world which they can not even feed ?

"I'm not saying there should be a law that mothers can't work, I'm saying if people don't want to raise kids then they should not get pregnant....."

A working mother sometimes has to supplement the income in order to make ends meet, would you rather that family looked for welfare assistance??

"How is my opinion that Natives should not be allowed to rape the wild resources (timber,fish,game,etc...) even if their ancestors did it ?"

Best answer to that is this (quote from above)"I don't like the way the Native corporations log vast areas clean"

They have been here for 10,000 plus years, and there were always plenty of trees and salmon and everything else wild here, before you got here and started clear cutting. How did the Natives practice clear cutting before Manifest Destiny ANYHOW?

"Should I be allowed to run a splashdam logging operation just because some white guy did it back in the day ?"

If you're still clearcutting, than well....I'll just put it this way (quote from above) "in the past there was extensive clear-cutting. Hopefully there will be more clear-cuts in the future,"

You are bi-polar or you are Bill O'Rielly, I haven't figured which yet, or maybe both.

What if the guy used to work for somebody like, I don't know, Enron. All the sudden lost everything, not too many people in the market for his line of work, but instead of sitting on his butt, he decides to keep busy, at anything, even if it doesn't make him rich. Do you think that everyone in the middle class just magically stays there forever and never sees any hardship that could place them in the poverty class?? You need to get out more, or practice some volunteerism, maybe feed the homeless on the weekends and hear their side of the story, not everyone in poverty made a concious decision to be there.

Nice try.
There seems to be a lot of things you haven't figured out, although spinning another persons words toward your point of view is obviously not your strong suit.........

Making ends meet is not too tough if you have your priorities right, and that's all I have said, even if you are asking me to say it a hundred different ways.................


Someone without enough survival skills to put a roof overhead, and food on the table, hasn't reached the point of being a sucessfull breeder...

The spin going on is in your head, right along side the IOU note from God.

Sure there are tough times all around, why is it a governmental function to provide a safety net/hamock ? I think family and friends are a pretty good safety net, especially so if there are not being forced to contribute to the governments lousy wellfare program.

"Someone without enough survival skills to put a roof overhead, and food on the table, hasn't reached the point of being a sucessfull breeder... "

That confirms it, poor goes on the list that don't deserve equal rights according to Oregonian.

You're a real model of society, so what do you say to the strong old men and women left on this earth who survived the Great Depression, were they not successful breeders because the economy collapsed? Did they have a choice during the depression to stay in middle class because it really wasn't too tough as far as you're concerned.

So I guess if the mother can't work, even to help support the family and the family can't receive welfare they should just share some of your kool-aid??