Tell you what, you don't find us reaching some middle ground in all these posts somewhere and you can make one of each for both of us.

Fishpolelease, I hope I didn't make you think I was under the impression 'drunken savages' was the norm. I was just using my Grandmothers, and for her, vile epithet. There are and have been, I'm sure, a lot more drunken savage White eyes than there have been drunken savage Indians.
In my personal opinion the Native Americans, I cannot name the 500 tribes, have been screwed, blued and tattooed by the BIA. D.C.'s organization for various supposedly humanitarian services. Their list of offenses is endless and Adolph Eichman would approve in many cases. However, even tho' I feel the victims of this rape job should get some kind of redress I cannot make it happen. The Casinos are the tribes best shot and hopefully they will use a bunch of the funds to reacquire some of the stolen land. Maybe the Government will actually allow that to happen, maybe not. Anytime there is big bucks involved the DC pocket pickers want some of the action.
I hope you are proud of your legally educated members. I have a pretty low opinion of lawyers in general, but to play in the arena today you need the ticket. Just curious, your birth year is???

BY 72, I'm quite young. I have a pretty low opinion of lawyers myself, in alot of cases. My family is using their education to do what we have done in the past, which is to ensure a better standard of living for future generations. The uncle works on land trust issues for tribes to try and re-aquire lands and to trya nd talk tribes out of selling off their lands for a quick buck, once it's gone it's gone. The other cousin wil eventually work into corporate law and assist me with the massive amounts aof legal jargon I deal with regularly to preotect myself and others in contracting (among many other clients I'm sure).

I didn't believe drunken savages was your point, I just wanted to clarify as alot of people believe that is a justifiable stereotype. I've seen your other post about the Nez Pierce I think it was, I have an idea of where you are coming from and I understand that you are sympathetic. I've seen many reservations in my life and have many native friends, some do indeed seem to consume in excess, and the ones that don't never get any attention for their model behavior, hence the stereotype.

Again, I don't want to seem that I am whining about the life that I have lived, I just all too well understand that there are many that require help. To attempt to answer this question: "talking about things which could be improved and how to do it"

one part of my answer would be education, I think public education is severely lacking in alot of areas and I don't beleive "no chld left behind" is really helping, (not that I'm trying to drag anyone into another partisan debate). Better education means, hopefully, to better jobs and better educated children. Another thing would be better regulation of the moneies set aside for assistance, I'm sure there are people abusing the system, and that seems to be Org's biggest problem with social programs. Because of the nature of the welfare application process, it is all too easy for some to receive benefits that could go to someone else in need. I beleive government should be smaller, and that was always something the Republicans stood for but I no longer see them practice. This admin seems to preach it though. Stop giving tax cuts to the wealthy, especially in a time of war and double deficit. Our soldiers need that body armor, that medical care and care for their families, the next generation needs it for their education to stay on top in the global economic race. Last but not least, quit outsourcing and driving corporations to the overseas shelters they use to work around tax income laws.

I cannot find fault with any of your statements. Isn't it interesting that when the dialog trancends the partisan BS some actual ideas can be exchanged. And you're right in that the system has been abused along with the taxpayer. The horror stories about the folks milking the welfare rolls for generations are founded in fact. It makes many taxpayers rebellious and overly self-rightious in many cases. The Republican party I once thought I knew and the Democratic party too, have strayed from their basic planks. In times past the dems leaned a bit socialistic and Gop leaned a bit the other way. Both tried to do what was best for America. NOW they seem more interested in doing what's best for the party or the clowns representing the party. Ah well, comes the revolution.

Oregonian. You cannot just sit back and audit this thread, you started it. How about some NSD commentary. You sound like you have labored in the good cause. If so you are in good company.
NSD> Non Shi Disturbing.

I always beleived I was a little more moderate than the litmus test told me. You know sard, I think it really boils down to common sense, campassion and the fact that people are actually begining to see through the BS from both sides and hopefully that will be a catalyst for some activism. I beleive the government should fear the people, not the other way around.

I'm glad we can agree, it's a nice feeling of fellowship to know that I'm not insane, or that if I was, I have company.

Time for the National Moderate Party??

Moderation is why the last few elections have just been a real ***** for me and unfortunately I don't see any good candidates available, for either party, coming in '08. Give me someone that is not so extreme either way and who truly wants to help America and it's citizens, rather than pluner it and delete the middle class.

When you find one that might pass that test. Shout and we'll attempt to vet him. I find McCain a disappointment, but I would vote for him in the face of what appears to be his opposition. Hell that's what got Bush into office. His alternative was so unpalatable.
I don't think your sanity is suspect.

I liked McCain up until about the end of 05, when he seemed to have rolled over to the current admin and sort of kiss george's behind. It must have been so humiliating for him to get up and have to back up George, especially after what George and Rove did to him in 2000. My only guess was that the party was baiting an endorsement if he helped turn the polls around. But still...., have some pride, huh?

I read a rumor that said McCain may consider Jeb on a ticket in 08, i really hope that's not true.

eye,eye,EYE.......
Never again, I was a drunken savage a few hours ago, not so fun this morning !


Funny you mentioned voodoo dolls, I have had a strange stomach ache the last couple of days, and it crossed my mind that you might be stabbing a voodoo doll of me !

Too Funny.

Gotta get some water........................

I think there were some gay men who also voted for Slick Willie........


That sounds bad doesn't it !

i have never understood why conservatives protect 99% of the welfare recipients and ***** like crazy about 1% of our welfare recipients.....

99% of welfare goes to people that dont need it because they are allready super rich, and 1% goes to the poor in the manner of what is thought of when one thinks of "welfare".....could there be a better example of "penny wise and pound foolish"???????????

oregonian- if you voted for bush- you voted for increasing welfare ten fold at least

Somewhat true Lupo. Those that voted for Bush thought there would be some constraint in Federal spending aside from the War's requirements, most had no clue that the pork bbl had been upsized several orders of magnitude. Bush's mistake, no veto. Hell those that voted for Clinton knew he was a Swordsman and they voted for him anyway. The term whitewater comes to mind. Very little white about the Clintons laundry.

I understand people get upset about welfare abuse, and rightly so. However, I do not think any child should go hungry due to being born to the wrong family. The money spent on welfare goes back into the economy quickly- yep, probably some abuse, but it does good. People foam at the mouth about welfare abusers -- I am glad I am capable and able to earn a living without being in need. I think the gov needs to do more for people who have children who are ill with very expensive diseases and medication. I would like to know- how much money is spent on walfare yearly? How much was given to the oil companies ($35 billion) tax break? A couple of billion here and there to pet pork-barrel projects as well as billions to military spending for items that have nothing to do with basic need-- look at the Boeing refueling fiasco. Welfare is a drop in the bucket--

It is kind of funny how some get extremely irate over someone abusing welfare for a few hundred dollars, but accept without question the corporations that abuse the tax code and our tax dollars for millions.

<Cue Krusty and his socialist party rant...>

get real you have that so backwards its pathetic.

Even a simpleton like myself knows whatever bad things W does, Kerry would have been worse by an order of magnatude.......

aix sponsa- prove it......its a fact, not an opinion....sorry if you dont have enough experience in politics to know that, but it isnt an opinion........ go ahead and show me how the facts are wrong

how ironic that a guy that stuffs animals for a living has no knowledge of..... "pork".

maybe he thought that it just meant a political BBQ.

Pork Barrel Politics has been a major mover of the party planks for so long I don't think it will go away soon. You would think that the uncivil servants of the electorate could be embarrassed enough to trim the cellulite a bit, but it doesn't seem to work that way.
Whether you like it or not those nameless corporations provide jobs for millions of Americans. Even some of the illegals.
All those sheds you roof must have a wage earner of one kind or another footing the bill Lupo. I know damn well they aren't out on the corner selling strawberries or pencils. Pork provides jobs for the various state projects. Too bad so much of it is wasted on enriching the various state level trough swillers.

I don't mean all state employees are trough swillers, Aunty M. And as you say many state jobs want you to indulge in pocket book self-abuse. However, there are many appointed positions created by the political process that are often just for political debt adjustment. And every bureaucrat just has to have an administrative assistant to up his self-esteem.
Although there are others, one of the glaring examples of incompetence in the ranks of the State Fish and Game people is the pictures of the starving elk that appeared in last Sunday's local newspaper. The game management people that let that happen ought to be fired. There are way too many elk for the food supply, and rather than have some hunters pay for tags and kill them, they let them starve. I have an aversion to the word 'harvest' in this case.
I know there are worse cases of state employee incompetence but that one grabs me.
I'm not sure I know how to determine the 'need' vs 'deserve' foundation of allocating welfare to private corporations.
I know that Halliburton is the favorite kicking stone of the 'OH my God, whatta mess' bunch. But I'm not aware of any other private entity that could compete with them. ???? I suspect their biggest sin is the fact that Cheney was once a player there.