Like many of you, I think that Bush is an idiot for his handling of Iraq. Unlike most of you, however, I am not so sure that going in was not the only choice we had. Rather than going into why I feel that way, what I would like to know is if you agree that Bush could have gotten his war without anyone questioning it if he had just follow this simple outline.

A short time after 9-11, we send out a survellance plane over the no-fly zone. In the past, the Iraqi's were known to send up a few shots at these planes. Well, what if one one of these trips, they actually shot down one and killed a couple of our men? In truth, since they had shot at us in the past, we could simply have sent a couple of guys up in a plane, and then had them bail out over the no-fly zone. Bush then would respond by lighting up baghdad with a bombing like nothing anyone has ever seen and follow up with an lightning invasion. No asking Congress or the world, we had just been attacked, again! Could you imagine the speech he could have given hours after the real or not so real downing of one of our planes. "No more will we sit around while terrorists kill our young men and women. On 9-11 a giant was awoken, and we are not going to go back to sleep. "
Given the mood of the Country, I really don't think anyone around would have had the guts to stand up and say, you know, maybe we should just talk to them a little more. Rather, parade around a few pictures of the men and their widows and little children, choke back the tears, slam the table and blow Iraq to smithereens.
If Bush had done this, would we be where we are today? And would anyone have been the wiser?
Rather, being the idiot he is, Bush passed up on the golden opportunity, and opened the door for every critic in the world to jump down his throat.

If we hurried and didn't have to worry as much about collateral damage, maybe we could have gotten away with softening them up a little more. And maybe, if we were pissed enough, we could have also gotten a little more help. Aint politics great.

The only fault I can find with your premise Krijack is the amount of credit you give G W Bush for formulating ANY type of plan.

He is a mere figurehead, told by his handlers what to do and say. When he DOES actually try to verbally express his own thoughts... you get timelessly eloquent quotes like: "I am the decider... I decide."

Tiresome 4salt. Actually the scenario you describe Krijack pretty well sums up the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Trouble is the antis hissed in the stew that time and are now busy doing it again. I don't know why we seem to manage to screw up a perfectly good situation that could have much benefit for all. Too many cooks I think. Spoils the Broth as the cliche goes. Media media media.

Give Bush a break, folks, his condemnation of homosexuality and pro-choice is long overdue. And his adherance to the war effort in Irag in lue of protest is to be commended as stellar. I believe history will see Bush as one of the all time great presidents in American history.

Before or after the second coming?

Laugh if you will, but the second coming is near. The tsunamis, earthquakes, huricanes, AIDS epidemic, global warming and worldwide famine are all signs. Those who have faith in GOD know he is responcible.

You mean like the disasters, eruptions, plagues, famines, and climatic changes that have been happening for the last 4000 years of recorded history?

When the apocalypse comes, can I have all your stuff?

Wasn't Jeezis coming back on Y2K? I bet you still have your unused generator and stockpile of bibles left over from that.

I talk to The Lord. He and I are thick as thieves. Got him on speed dial. If you sign me over the title to your house & car I'll put in a good word for ya, even get ya a spot next to him at the bingo hall in heaven....Oh wait, he only lets you in if you dress your family up and pretend like you are on an episode of "Little House on the Prairie."....Sorry.

The only way the second coming is imminent is if Bush starts it...

In the mean time "God" will just keep throwing hurricanes and natural disasters at us to punish homosexuals and deviants...

Heaven forbid he should punish the judgemental!!!

Thanks, churchgoer, this site needed some good parody and satire.

I'm curious as always. Churchgoer, if you believe, and it would appear you do. I want to know your take on the Anti-Christ. There are so many different angles on the events prior to the Apocalypse that mass confusion is the only real constant. Based on the little I've heard, he is to appear in the European framework, and be seen as a super good guy. The deceiver at work again. There is no one on the European scene that could be considered as a good guy, let alone super. Perhaps he will appear in Eurabia when it is a cultural fact. He could then be Muslim and accepted by millions of Islamic fuzzbrains. That would satisfy the predictions. That Eurabia is well along is an obvious fact to anyone that pays attention.

For all I know, Sol is the Anti-Christ. He certainly displays all the qualifications with an afinity for pornography, drugs and excessive alcohol consumption. If he isn't, he will most certainly meet him soon enough.

Look churchgoer is a bigger tool then Rory

"Look churchgoer is a bigger tool then Rory."

I'm a tool all right. A tool that belongs to God. Take my advice and praise the Lord in faith that sins need not condem the to eternal damnation if you ask forgivness.

Looks like God needs to clean out his TOOL shed.

It looks like the preacher here is for real and not the troll I thought him to be.

Churchy, Take my advice and stick to talking about fishing on fishing forums and when you prothelytize about God, talk about Her with your congregation or on Religion-oriented websites. I don't visit this place to get lectures on spirituality, and I don't think anyone else does, either. Look at it this way: If none of us Anglin' Heathen make it past the pearly gates, that just means more fish up there for you. No skin off your balls.

"I believe history will see Bush as one of the all time great presidents in American history."

churchgoer - I don't know how old you are but I'm 60 so I've been around awhile. This is truly one of the goofiest comments I've ever read about any of the presidents that have been around since I've been here. I can not believe that anyone actually believes that jr. bush even makes any decision beyond his own body functions.
jr. bush is very lucky to have been born to money so he could fudge on the system by things such as not completing his military service, getting into a college that he could not have got into unless he was a legacy, etc, etc.,etc.
Thanks for the belly laugh.

I think your turtleneck is just a bit tight.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ - that's the sound of line running off the reel I got snagged with. Nice one Richard Limp.....chummed me right in.......

The millitary and college issues you speak of are no more than bad press perpetrated by the spin doctor Democrates in an effort to impune his charicter. He is a brilliant man with a bright vision for our future.

"Ich, nobody with an email of richard_limp@hotmail.com is a man of God."

Again with the name jab? If you are indeed a lady, how about acting like one and show some respect.

She should show respect?

Pot-kettle-black.

Another creaton? Your avatar would indicate to me that you listen to the Devil's music. Anything you have to say to me you can save for God.

Churchgoer is wearing the devil's hat. Nobody else would wear something so fugly.

I see the old fuc%er made his way over here too? I just thrashed him pretty hard on the main board. Hopefully he takes a hike.

I that a loving God who brings us all those things? Man I would sure hate to see her pissd off.

You just don't want to irritate Astarte. Quezecoatl either. If your serpent starts growing feathers you will know you done wrong.

As a church-goer myself, its too bad there's people like churchgoer who give real Christians a bad name. While the apocalypse may be neigh, we don't know that for a fact. God doesn't work in timeframes. And all these "disasters" aren't necessarily pointing to the apocalypse. Please don't mistake people like churchgoer as the average Christian. They are radicals, and like any radical, whether it be atheist, Christian, left-wing, right-wing, salt chuck, river, drift, and float, their words need to be taken with a grain of salt.

I only say this because it seems like Christians are being vilified once again. Most of us are very happy to share our faith, but wont condemn you to the pits of burning sulphur for eternity if you don't convert now. God gave us free-will, so who are we to take that away from our fellow humans?

Amen.

Im convinced CG is putting on a show. I think Parker is right he has to be Southern Baptist. Im not quite sure who Southern Baptists do like other Southern Baptists.What would be really cool is if those with strong beliefs actually acted Christ like.

Unfortunately, there are some "Christians" who act like CG, but are not putting on a show. Its very sad and very upsetting. You'd be surprised how many real Christians there are out there. We try to be Christ like, but hey, we're only human, and do make mistakes. Remember, its like any big group, there'll be some bad apples, and unfortunately, like a squeaky wheel, they do get all the attention (If I use another cliche, I think I'll burn in hell myself!)

Wow.. we are very off topic here, aren't we?

According to all those Islamoliberals out there, (Jeez I hate to borrow phrases but it is so apt) Bush is an idiot and a liar. For an idiot he sure put one over on the Gore Team and the Dean/Kerry gang. They were so befuddled running around looking for election improprieties they forgot to campaign. They could have won, you know.

If he lied about WMDs so did all the other "eggsperts" in Congress, I need not elaborate, if you read at all you know who said what.

A real liar would have had his boys in the CIA plant WMDs over there. Did that thought ever cross anyone's mind? Nah, he's just a liar cause that is what most libs resort to when they are losing the argument. Oh yeah, they call people names too. I expect a few directed my way but nyaah, what the hell!

By the way I'm an old conservative in case you haven't quite figured that out yet. Don't want anyone taking too long to cipher this one.

I served during Vietnam. No I was not in country but I was expalining that to a vet at the traveling memorial when he said, "Never apologize for not going to Vietnam. You could have been sent at any time and at least you served." It never entered my mind to cut and run. That is what politicians do when they can't stand the heat anymore.

That Vet is right Jhook. Being there or not was not a choice. Kinda like picking your parents. Very hard to do.