besides it being the law here is another good reason to send in the punch card. Look at where you live and where some of the rivers you catch fish are. These show the State that sport fisherman are spending money on gas, food and lodging to get your fish. Money which helps other people have jobs and tax revenue for the state. I will give all the data I can to this poorly run democratic ruled state just to justify money coming back to the fish and wildlife department. If you don't send in your card, well don't ***** when the fish are gone, you had a part in it.

I have to echo Silver Hilton. The dept needs the info to do their best (even if we feel it is inadequate). Sparky, you know you are WRONG by having someone else punch your fish, and if you are a guide, wanna keep your license??

I know I am wrong...I guess I should have never admitted it...just felt hypoctritical about *****ing about people not punching fish when I have turned around and did the same (on total accident though)...

Sparkey,
I just had to jump your sh** cause I get tired of the "holier than thou's" on here and wanted to get people to thinking.
I'm sure the vast majority of people on here don't follow the letter of the law exactly how it was written. And I'd bet money that just about every one has at one point knowingly broken a law.

This is for everyone, just remember to look in the mirror next time you start hollering POACHER at someone.

I think the definition of a poacher is being stretched a bit here and I sure hope nobody starts calling me one without leaving their name and address.

Wow, Luke, it looks like you've put an awful lot of thought into your last post.


"Punchcards are nothing more than an insurance policy against the damn game Nazis."

You've gotta be kidding! Game wardens do a tough job, with way too little manpower and resources to do it as well as it deserves to be done, for a lot less money than anyone deserves for doing a job as tough as theirs.

Why do they do it? Because they care about the resource. The only people who have a problem with game wardens in general (problems with individuals at specific times have nothing to do with game wardens) are people who break the law.

Why would you dislike wardens if you weren't breaking any laws?

" I never punch fish unless I have to and I never turn in my card."

Why would you have to?

" I give those government workers enough of my money already, I'm not about to help them out in any way. The Fisheries Dept. is as inefficient as any other government agency. There is no accountability and the waste is tremendous. "

I'd recommend that you stop paying taxes, car tabs and registration, property taxes, and B&O taxes for the high end think tank that you obviously own and operate. If you won't give those clowns at DFW your hard earned cash, why give it to those other "inefficient" government agencies.

Make especially sure that you don't let any of your hard earned cash make it to the Dept. of Education...they're obviously REALLY inefficient.

"I'm sick of those fools catering to whatever the Indians want. Screw the Indians, if they can't live in our society, then they can head to a third world country and live in their damn teepees until kingdom come!"

I guess I didn't know it, but Sen. Thurmond must now be spending his out-of-session time in Toutle. That last couple of sentences are so ignorant and stupid that they speak for themselves.

Backward ignoramuses like you are the reason that most of the problems we face as a society exist. I'm sure you've never felt that you ever owed anyone anything...

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. I apologize to all, but Luke, for the harsh tone of this post. You all know that I do at times respond strongly, but I don't usually reduce it down to calling people ignoramuses or calling their comments stupid. I just couldn't help myself this time...

Most of you are dead wrong! The worst thing you can do is return a blank card. The WDFW uses the catch information to see if we can or are taking our allotted fish. An example, on the Quinalt river, sports allottment has been reduced because the catch data showed that sportsfishermen were not capable of taking their share, so who got more and who got less? The tribe picked up the unused sportsmens fish, called "foregone opportunity", means if we dont' use it, we lose it. I am a catch and release fisherman, but I now know that I will be doing my part by bonking fish that are legal and filling my card. So mark your cards, bonk your hatchery fish, and return them, only way we can keep our pathetic numbers in the long haul.

I was under the impression that if you did not send in your card it was considered "full" and counted in "our" allotment.
Some one mentioned that not sending it it equals 5 fish.

Anyone have hard facts on this?

I send mine in, but would like to know how to explain this to others.

WDFW does use the catch record card information to help estimate catches and assign quotas.. Check the example of the crab catch record card. When that was first used they discovered that they had been overestimating the sport catch by a mile and they made adjustments. The tribes *****ed alot and tried to get around the resulting seasons as they always seem to do but the point is that the catch record cards did make a difference. So turn them in for heavens sake. If you think this is some big government conspiracy get help quick.

Well said Todd, a big thank you.

Sparkey,

You said "...I know it is just illegal...you bonk a hatchery fish and go to punch it, yet you left your card in your car...what do you do??..."

Just my unsolicited opinion, but I believe you should:

1. Immediately stop fishing.

2. Go to your car and punch your tag.

I doubt if you encountered an enforcement officer on your way back to the car and he/she asked to see your punch card that you would be ticketed when you explain the circumstances (forgot the punch card in the car and going back to make it right.) I believe this is far more honest, and certainly more ethical, than "...Better the fish get recorded then not at all..."

As others have alluded, exacerbating the situation by breaking even morel regs and dragging others into your predicament probably won't win much sympathy from that same enforcement officer.

I can't believe you went on the public record with "...I know it is just illegal..."

Question:

If its is so darn important for WDFW to maintain all that "viable information" about our sport catch records; then why in the heck is WDFW now proposing a new change in the 2003-2004 fish license regulations (i.e. #26 of the proposed rule changes)? If you don't need to have limits on hatchery fish (which is probably about 95% of what we are now allowed to harvest), why then do we want to pay for the cost of doing the punch card thing?

If they (the WDFW) are so concerned about the number of "hatchery" steelhead that you and I are catching, then why is #26 being proposed? Does somebody have their heads up their …?

To me, it's pretty obvious that the "old punch card" system is not needed anymore. It's kind of like using more of the old wire coded tags again to get more of the same information that they already know and have…so why do it? Is it possible that it may just be more big $$$$ for the WDFW budget each year?

I want to see just how much the "punch cards" program is really costing the sport fishers before I can justify continuing its cost in my mind! Maybe it's worth it…but most likely its not!

Does the word "bureaucrat jobs" mean anything to you? The only logical reason to me appears to be simply that it is a way that limits the amount that one can harvest each day.

Don't you wonder why the commercial boys aren't required to have "punch cards" too for their catch?

So it's supposed to keep us honest …right? But if that is true; why doesn't the state make us install a device on our cars that "records" each time we go over the maximum speed limit of 70 mile per hour. No where in the state is it "legal to go over 70 per hour"...right? So why not make us do that too? After all, IT THE LAW…RIGHT?

Maybe someone can figure out how much money the state would be able to save "us tax payers" if we did not have to print and process all those punch cards, the salaries, staff , and all the benefits and perks that go with each, and the computers network that it now takes to "purchase" a new license or punch card.

In my opinion, the "punch card" is a model "T" and its time has already come and gone!

Almost everything in the WDFW system is now done by existing "long standing data" when it comes to "punch cards". I am sure that they have plenty of "models" to run their data and get whatever results they may be seeking!

It has been my personal experience, that our "punch card" data for the most part, is only used to justify a commercial fishery… again, it is only my opinion, that it is being used in many places to justify an ongoing commercial fishery. That's why the commercial fishery is never cut short because WDFW always uses it's same age old excuse…we don't have all the punch card data in yet so we don't know how many fish have been harvested!

Punch cards should only be used/or needed to limit harvest on wild fish if they allow such a harvest to occur! Who on this board really care about harvesting "to many" hatchery breed or hatchery produced fish?

I know how WDFW has calculated the catch data and statistics on the Cowlitz in the past years and it was a real "joke". Maybe those times are changing, but I have not seen it happen as of yet!

You got to ask yourself; why in the devil are sport fishers the "only" user group that HAS TO turn in "catch record punch cards!!! That in itself should tell you "the rest of the story"!

Cowlitzfisherman

This topic brings up a question I have had for some time.

How do the quides, that catch fish and give em to their customers to punch out, not concider it poaching? Also, now many fish over the alloted amount per year are these quides taking by doing this. I have seen this happen, and wondered if the practice is widespread.

Chukarnut

Chukarnut.
This subject was brought up a long time ago. I'm still throwing in my 2 cents worth though.
I believe it is very wide spread,from what I have seen. Especially on the Cow and rivers like that where,there have been some huge runs of silvers the past few years.I guess one way to look at it is that they still get recorded.
Although usually on the bank after the fishings done.
I personally don't care how many fish a person takes out of some of those hatchery runs.They are there to harvest,and usually more than enough to go around.
I've personally seen a lot of guides hand off poles,give clients fish,and keep clients eggs.
One of the reasons they hand off poles is for the benefit of the client.Some of them dont know a thing about fishing and thats the only way they will know what its like ti land a fish.So they are doing a service to their clients.
I alos believe,from what I have observed ,that when the guide sets the boat up on a drift,he is in the best position to catch fish.First because he is the first person through the hole,second because he is in the best position for the drift.
I think if your with a guide, your best bet is to get the spot in the rear of the boat closest to the guide.Thats where the next most fish will be caught.And it will taper off from there to the front of the boat.
I know some of the things I mentioned are illegal,but accepted practice.and most people just don't really care.
I'm sure you'll hear some more heated opinions on this.Probably some directed at me.But thats what these boards are all about,right

HntnFsh,

You just brought up another issue of illegalities, and that is the one of punching the fish, after getting to the bank. According to what I read in the regulations, you have to punch before continueing fishing.

Now where does one draw the line when breaking the law? How much difference is there between taking over the limit, fishing without a license, catching fish for other people, not punching the fish before the next cast, etc, etc. Can one justifie breaking the rules if it benefits the breaker?

Just some thought,
Chukarnut

Just wondering if there might be a consensus here on whether you should repair your ball mark if you crater the green?
Like what if you left your divot tool in the car or you were in a hurry to get your round in?
Isn't that why they have greenskeepers anyway?
And the fees, they're simply outrageous!
I know it'll be my silent form of protest. Nobody will ever accuse me of being lazy.

Mooch, I like the way you think. What's your handicap?

Punch cards are valuable Information?? To whom. Over the past 10 years I have realized that the Sportsfisherman are on the bottom of the food chain when it comes to fish allotments in this state: Unless we unite and fund some political politicians campaign we will not be heard. Several years ago a GREAT proposition was voted down, BAN ALL NETS.

a. I have seen many times over the years that the Dept of Fisheries would put out bogus numbers of expected returns of salmon allowing the Commericals to over harvest just to turn around and slap emergency closures to
us river fisherman.

b. Last weekend 7 rivers up North were closed because of poor returns. I havent turned in my punch card yet. How is my punch card going to help this?

c. Governor Locke just cut the budget for hatcheries. Several hatcheries have already been closed with many more targeted!

d. Look closely to the Cowlitz. Tacoma Power had a 30 year contract that required renegotiating this year. They want to decrease there PROMISED responsibility of managing the hatcheries. They want to save MONEY by reducing the amount of smolts!!!

The fish in this state are regulated by special interest groups. Not the importance of managing fish and habitat. Timber, Dams, Commercials and Indians.

Unless we adopt a FISH FIRST like Alaska does, the dismal returns now will be gone in a few years. Talk to the Old timers how fishing use to be years ago.

Fishaddict

Right on!!!


Cowlitzfisherman

Hello everybody,

I am new to the board. I cannot believe how many people think that by not punching your card your a poacher talk about misinformed or bored with no fish, give me a break! there is a this thing in the regs called a limit if you go over that you could be considered a poacher or if your taking fish from closed waters your a poacher! but not punching your card how is that poaching? your not taking more than you should , your just abstaining from telling the fish and game depo what you caught which is a violation but not poaching! Regardless of whether you punch your card or not the fish and game department has this ridicules calculation it uses to estimate how many fish were caught It always looks heavy to me. they use information from fish checkers. how the hell do you think they do mid season qoutas! It certainly isnt from your punch card now is it! I am sick and tired of petty bickering between sportfishermen dont you think If we were one big happy family we would have alot more say in what goes on. Just so you know (like its any of your bussiness) I punch my card so I can keep track of the fish I catch! TOO PUNCH OR NOT TO PUNCH? Either way the numbers are inflated!