5 big Steelhead on Potters web site? She states these are from the Queets and range in size from 22-27lbs are they Net caught or sport caught? Either way they have an intact adapose and it is a great loss, I understand the Big Q doesn't clip fish but these appear to be Nates on the Queets. Make me SICK to see the resource depleted like this for CAT FOOD.

Just plain SICK AND WRONG, lets brag about damaging the gene pool.......... Nates like that for food, come on! Its a beautiful river with beautiful fish, I wonder how long it takes the Quinalts to destroy it?


This is what gets me about Native Americans............. their ancestors and heritage would be sick to see how they treat a resource now. Indians WERE know for using everything ....no waste, take what you need. I have a HUGE amount of respect for that. Why wasn't that part of their culture pasted on? I also happen to know the early Quinalts didn't use gas powered boats or mono nets.

I think next time I head that way I'll fill up the boat with hay bails! I haven't fead the horses below 101 in awhile!!!!

Steelimatt,
Just a question as I am a bit more of a Salmon fisherman than Steelhead. You say they don't clip their Hatchery Steelhead on the Queets but these appear to be wild fish, so how can you tell the difference between a wild and a hatchery on the Queets?? Just curious.

The dorsal fin is frayed on a hatchery fish and must be smaller than the size of a credit card to be considered a Hatchery. I have been informed that the dorsal becomes frayed when the fish are raised as juveniles in cement holding tanks and they rub against the side of the tank. I don't know if that is true or not but I do know that a true Native fish has a beautiful dorsal fin and adipose. Those fish in the picture appear to be net caught.

I believe that any fish caught above the salmon river is more than likely a native fish, but there are always some lost hatchery fish but that big...c'mon.
what a bunch of bu!!shi#!!!!!!!!!!

Local,
Thanks for the info. I never thought of what those holding tanks could to the fins when all those smolt are crammed in there. Makes perfect sense to me.

I worked at a trout farm when i was a teenager. The fish would often have rough looking, partial missing, or nubs for fins. The rainbows would chomp each other and I guess the fins fit in their mouths. The fish were all the same size kept together so they couldn't swallow each other.

Thanks for the confirmation Troller. I've been told by hatchery employees that steelhead (more so that other species) show a tendancy to nip at one another's fins and thus some of the dorsal damage that you often see with steelhead and not other hatchery-origin fish.

What is the link to this discusting web site? I have some spam I would like to pass along to it.

We as a people aren't much better. Todays paper lists the sport catch check for the lower Hoh last weekend: 139 anglers, 26 steelhead caught which includes 7 kept wild and 12 kept hatchery. I'm sure more wild were killed last weekend and not checked.

The Big Q I refered to was the Quinault where I have heard there hatchery fish are not clipped. The queets on the other hand has clipped hatchery fish I believe. This was not intended or directed at any site, Her site is a good site just passing along a picture of the netted beasts that would be so useful to the gene pool. But as someone else stated the forks area last weekend bonked there share of nates, Friends that spend much time there passed along to me many guide boats had there two dead nates, Not all but many. If I was a guide there and my client wanted to take home a fish that bad I would buy him one from the tribe on his way out. They are already dead and the one's caught by the client have a chance to be productive as they have made it past the nets. Just a thought..

Steeliematt,
That picture is still a sick site to see.
Good luck,
STRIKE ZONE
P.S. howd you do on the girls night out???

CAT FOOD?

More like Pike's Place Market.


FJ...out.

That pic is a tragedy...but as long as there is a market, like FJ pointed out, greed will prevail. That's a great idea steeliematt had about Forks area guides buying thier clients fish from the Natives if they have to take something home. The only time I've ever done a guided trip out there the guide said he had no problem killing nates and that he does so all the time.

Bob, what are the chances of getting an idea like Matts going?

For the answer, http://www.lettypotter.com/012103.jpg email and ask Letty at her web site . She has quite a photo spread off slabs ,for the latest pics check today,s pic for details
http://www.lettypotter.com/

Hey Matt ... Sad but true, that's the situation here. All too often, I hear the phrase "I can't afford to pass up the trip".

Most years, we only seem to turn down one or two calls when we reiterate our policy of no wild steelhead harvest. This year, we've had probably over half a dozen calls that we've turned away. Hardly what we'd like to do given most guides have been sitting idle much of the season and my January is certainly down from normal ... but you gotta stick by your guns.

Frankly, I wouldn't support the netting by buying a fish. Fishing pressure from the Quillayute tribe is low because the market is not there for them and they're working the crab boats instead. If the market goes away so will most of the netting.

I can live with some subsistance use or ceremonial netting to pass along "the tradition", but the only way we can currently keep netting to a minimum is to not buy the product period.

A number of guides that will remain nameless out this way ***** about the nets all the time, but then kill every fish they can and even worse, turn around and buy eggs from the Indians on top of it all.

It comes down to a matter of values and respect for the resource. Do your best to limit your impact the best that you can.

It's unrealistic to say everyone should stop fishing (although in some areas that is necessary), just as it's unrealistic to stop all logging.

BUT logging operations can steer clear of some areas and guides can take a stand on letting them go.

To the best of knowledge ... despite all "the talk", there are only two guides on the Forks-area streams that operate under a 100% no-kill policy on wild steelhead ...

That would be myself and JD Love.

Speaking of Pike's Place market. Last weekend I went off on a guy at the fish counter in the main entrance. I saw a huge, and dark might I add, adipose-clipped steelie lying on ice with some non-clipped (fully formed dorsal too) bright hens next to the big brat. I said "Do you have any WILD steelhead for sale?" and his reply was "No sir, and what would one of those be?".

Well, Kid Sauk don't sell out on the cause for nothing, but with Miss Kid Sauk's fine blonde ass in tow, I decided to only go off a little bit. I calmly picked up one of the wild steelies and said "THAT'S A WILD FISH....AND DON'T GIVE ME YOUR BULLSH!T, TAILOR-MADE, ADMINISTRATIVE RESPONSE!!! YOU KNOW DAMN WELL WHAT A WILD STEELHEAD IS!!!

Shocked by my knowledge and tone of voice, the merchant walked off and so did about a dozen potential customers. Miss Kid Sauk was surprised that I was relatively calm this time as I have had a history of much worse down there. What really shocked me was that one of the fish market employees followed me around the corner to the downstairs and asked me, and I qoute "What my problem was". Now I'm smart enough to know that I shouldn't repeat what I said on the internet so let's just say that I "told him where to stick his wild steelhead" and if they were going to be selling them, then they should at least have the decency to acknowledge the fact that they are buying and selling wild steelhead (which is bullsh!t IMHO) and not try to con the public into thinking that they are ignorant of the fact that they have wild steelhead on ice in their market. Another guy showed up that also worked at the fish market and said they were going to follow me and I again quote "I'd better watch my back". I laughed and said "Is that a threat or a promise? I'm sooooo scared!"

Nothing escalated from this incident and the guys may be good at throwing fish, but I doubt they are as good at throwing blows so I wasn't scared. Just upset me that I had to defend my cause against the sale of wild steelhead in front of Miss Kid Sauk.

Now we may not be able to get the sale of wild steelhead stopped completely, but if there is no buyers market, then there is no sale and no need to sell wild steelhead. The Casino revenues should be put to good use and buy the tribes huge, fully-contained net pens and let them make a sh!tload more money than what they are getting currently. Think, people, think. If fish are big business, then why net a fragile resource when you can grow them and make money of exponential proportions dependent on how many fish you "raise" to adults not "net" as adults. This would also allow for more on reservation employment (all tax free that way) and the tribes could dominate the fish farm market in no time. Last time I checked, a particular Tacoma area-based casino had reported profits of $125 million annually. $125 fukking million and they still have to net? Un farging believable! I hate politics and I normally don't piss and moan, but I live to fish and I need to rant once in a while
I caught more than one 20+ pound steelie last year and I don't want to tell my grandkids someday about "the good ol' days" I want to show them a 20+er in person!

So how do I support the cause? Well, I raise hell at the fish market. I'll do more when I can and I am willing to do so, but my constitutional right to free speech let's me go off on fish merchants....so be it!

Remember, protesting DOES get response, sometimes good and sometimes futile, however, I have 50+ years left on this planet and I intend to do whatever I can to save these precious fish. I hate to sound like a hippie, but let's get together and protest soon or we can all go through the woulda, coulda, shoulda rap later.....when the last two living wild steelhead are both males and we can only remember "the good ol' days". The good ol' days are not gone, my friends, they are out there waiting to come up there rivers, but that aint easy when there is so many friggin' gillnets!

Remember, Kid Sauk don't sell out for nothin'!!!!!!!

I shouldn't have looked - that pic about made me hurl. I released a 21 pound fly-caught buck on the upper Q several years ago - was the @ss-kickingest fish I ever caught. Those are probably his progeny - look what I released him for

So....Justin...how do you really feel?



Fish on...

Todd.

P.S. The squidgies are a-waitin'...how are you for hitting it during the week? Any worthwhile spots up in Edmonds?

If you guys really wanted to make a differance...stop booking trips with them and tell them why!

The same people that ***** about their nets in the rivers (Hump, Quinault and Queets)...have no problem booking many trips a year with them on either Cook Creek or the Quinault...stand up and STOP BOOKING TRIPS!

If most everyone that booked trips with them, stopped and told them why...I guarentee you would see some changes (they make very good money guiding)...but why people dont, its beyond me!!

...I guess some people are more worried about numbers then protecting our wild steelhead...

Gotta agree with everyone who wants to totaly eliminate wild steelhead harvest. for being so weak as to even chance something like this happening. So from that day forward my policy and anyone in my boat releases anything that could possibly be of native origin. Funky dorsal doesn't mean squat to me. I go by the adipose only.

This brings to mind a question that has been floating around in my mind over the last month:

With the dismal return of hatchery steelhead this year will there be a greater urge for anglers to bonk that wild steelhead the rest of season? In my opinion, I believe it will.

when netting on the "Q" they have no control on whether they net natives or hatchery. the nets have no mercy on the natives. once the natives have been caught in the nets and are dead, it really dont matter what they use them for. i agree that it is a shame that these natives with impecable genes are being destroyed.

Sparkey,

I hear what your saying but the fact is, there will always be a demand for tribal sport fishing because of more liberal limits, less competition and, often, better fishing.

What about the idea that more tribal guys offering sportfishing packages instead of throwing out a gillnet might have a lower impact on the fishery? Granted, you still have mortality, but it would be lower and a step in the right direction. Tribal sportfishing guides would be at the mercy of weather and water conditions just as we are, thus, resulting in lower overall impact at season's end.

A quinalt tribal guide I know acknowledge more and more tribal fishers are realizing the potential for sportfishing and questioning gillnets as a source of income.

Like I said, not a perfect scenario but maybe a step in the right direction?

I agree with Eric. I would much rather have the Indians running guide trips than nets.

If they're guiding, than they'll have the same goals as us, more fish in the river to be caught on a hook and line.

They'll get more $ per fish killed (who knows they might even release some) and there will be more left over for the the rest of us.

Ok, let me get this straight. We're b!tching about wild steelhead being killed by tribal nets, and in the same breath advocating more tribal sportfishing on these same wild fish?

A dead fish is a dead fish!

Does it really matter if it was killed by a tribal gillnet or some meat-hungry "sportsman"? The end result is the same. If it could somehow become more economically feasible for tribal guides to conduct well monitored C&R fisheries, then maybe the end result of more fish overall to catch could be realized. But as long as there is a kill fishery on the Queets natives be it nets or hook and line, this WHOLE issue boils down to "sportsmen" being mostly angry about the fact that they didn't get their own shot to fill the freezer 'cause the tribes got 'em first.

I agree with a previous posts and that is not to book fishing trips on "indian" rivers, not buy fish from indians or any other market selling steelhead, and for sure not purchase eggs or fish if you know they were gill netted.

The biggest hippocrits I know are the guys that release natives but book trips to Cook creek and purchase pounds apon pounds of eggs from the indians. They just don't get it.

I agree with bob.

I dont buy anything from the indians. Take the market away and they will move on to casinos or something.

I also give alot of fish away to people who previously bought there fish from the indians.

The problem is as long as there are Japanees and non fisherpersons out there there will always be a market...

We should work together and try to save what few wild fish are left in some rivers....

I have visited the Quinalt hatchery on the lake. We were flooded out one day in February, and our "guide" (and buddy) took us up there to see the show. We watched them net the fish in the lake, bring 'em back and check for ripeness, then they "hi-grade" the acceptable fish into a pen for future spawning. The small, over-ripe, and unhealthy fish were bonked and left in a tote for the tribal members to use. They even offered us some, so we took a couple of bright bucks for the BBQ! I examined about 100 fish, and less than 10 were marked or clipped. The hatchery guys were very helpful, and a pleasure to converse with. They didn't utilize a fish unless it was over 14lbs, and they said (for what's worth) that the mass majority of the brood stock were of hatchery origin, thus alot of them were unclipped.(?)

I saw a fish that was like 33-34lbs that Letty got 2 seasons ago that she posted on her site. She was using it as a advertisement, but it was net caught! All the guys at the cannery said so, if you can believe that.

I agree that all steelhead should not be netted or sold, but unfortunately it's nearly impossible to stop a soverign nations "right".

soverign nation my A!!

4Salt,

The difference between them netting and them guiding is that their going to catch a lot less fish if they have to use hook and line, than if they use a net.

A dead steelhead is a dead steelhead, but there would be a lot less if they all guided as oppossed to netted.

And since the money they get from the fish isn't relying on the fish being dead, who knows some of them may even develop a C&R mentality.

The way I see it the indians are going to fish no matter what, and if they guide they will have less of an impact and be more likely go to C&R than if they net.

PS: I'm a C&R advocate. So I'll take it you weren't jumping to conclusions and refering to me with your "meat-hungry sportsman" comment.

No Bossman, I wasn't singling you out at all. The point I was trying to make was if the tribal guiding increased substantially, and netting were phased out, I'd bet for sure that close to the same amount of wild steelhead would still die. Let me pose this to you: What % of tribal guide clients do you think practice C&R now? My answer - Probably NONE! Those guys go to the Quinault TO HARVEST SOME FISH! So what's the real difference whether they die in nets or are bonked by clients. Again, NONE! The "meat-hungry" comment was my way of describing those who kill everything they catch. It's not necessarily a derogatory term, just a pretty accurate one unfortunately.

I think the Guiding aspect would be much better then the netting aspect, On any givin day the fish have at least a decent chance to get through, Not so on a net choked river, Some but not decent. And The Guide wiether or not a native American isn't making you keep the fish, It's your choice as a fisherman, And if you have the C&R values for Nates then It is a better way to go then The Nets that RAPE our waters, And I am neither a meat hungry fisherman. /The Beauty is knowing in years to come I will be fighting the ofspring from the nates that we release........ Protect your future and do what you can control/

Do any of you guys that actually catch a lot of steelhead really kill that many? Yeah, a brite brat or two is ok for the grill, but after I get done with salmon season I have already bbqd, smoked, canned, frozen, and given away to the family so many hatchery salmon - springers, chrome coho, and monsterous bright fall chinook - that I don't need or want steelhead meat. Hell, I even let hatchery steelhead go, as they continue to bite and are likely to be caught again my me or someone else. I guess the crackers that can only catch fish with a guide are maybe going to put a dent in the population if they are allowed to kill nates, but us 10/90%ers sure aren't or shouldn't be. And really, Bob TRBO - you have got it dead to rights insisting on releasing fish - you can then go nail them the next day with new clients and likely have done so way more than you know - these fish bite repeatedly and on the same kind of gear that caught them before - even hold in the same hole or types of holes. A good guide who is on the river all the time has got to be able to figure this out - it's a tremendous business advantage to release fish to catch them another day. I don't mind killing the salmon - they go zipperlipped right away and always die after spawning anyway, but steelhead keep on biting and spawning. Like I said before - seeing those dead steelhead makes me want to hurl