Take a look where the hook is on this fish,m (right in the chin), I left it there so I could ask this question.

I get this a couple times a year. Im pretty sure its from a late hook set. In this case I was free spooling in a fast deep slot and when I thumbed the spool the rod just doubled over, didnt even get a chance to set the hook. This fish tore me up and I was excited when I saw it was a little larger than avarage but when I landed it I saw where it was hooked it bothered me a bit.

The fish wasnt hurt and no damage was done, It revived and left me nicely but never the less it was foul hooked.

Has this happened to you?

Rich,
Could have happened in the fight when the fish was rolling?? Had serveral that when you initially hooked the fish you could see that it was right in the corner but in the fight it dislodges and ended up else where. Nice fish though.

Thight lines

Kevin

Rich

I have caught a couple of hatchery brats drift fishing in that same manner. Makes you wonder if the fish took the hook or if the hook took the fish. I tend to believe the fish was going for the bait and just kind of missed running into the hook.

While float fishing with a jig I have also hooked many white fish in that same spot on the underside of the mouth.

That happens to me several times a year. I think it has to do with where in the drift you fish. Ive hooked up this way whe I'm in a rock garden that has a pretty good flow to it I free spool through the tail out area behind a rock. I believe once you start to free spool you have minor separation between the hook and corkie and the fish hits the corkie while the hook dangles slightly under it. You set the hook or in your case just hang on and the hook is lodged under it's jaw. Right or wrong thats been my thoughts on this over the years.

I have done the same thing many times, and I just wonder if it was a result of the old "Garden Slug" hook set. Kinda like falling asleep at the wheel.


One thing for sure, is that they fight pretty hard when hooked that way, as you kind of have control of them, but can't lead their head around the same way as when they get hooked in the mouth.

what size hook and corkie were you using, i have found if im using a smaller corkie and a bigger hook, it will float jus below the fish, i hooked several silvers in this manner, so i went with a smaller hook and didnt hook them like that..jus a suggestion

Berkley,

3/0 mustad and a 6" floating plastic. drift fished.

Can't speculate as to how it happened, but it sure is a dandy fish!!

Rich,

That,
might explain it. A steelhead picks it up at the head and voila, the hook is danglin' just enough out of it's mouth to hook it under the jaw. That fish would have had to been asleep or dead (doesn't look likely) to get flossed by a big ol' 6" piece of pink plastic. Did I say pink? Oh my. Anyway, this has happened to me, sometimes in the gill plate, but usually when fishing with double hook set ups with a bobber and shrimp. Very rarely, if ever, for me with a solo corkie. But the way steelhead twist and roll after getting hooked I guess anything could happen. My guess would be it's because that 3/0 is hanging 6 inches out the posterior of that worm. Did I say worm? Oh my.

By the way, naaaaaaaaaice fish! Oh my.

Nice Fishey Rich,

I have this happen to me every once in a while, and in thinking back it normally happens when the fish takes it hard, like a Mack truck.

My personal opinion is that they are going fast, or the lure is going fast, and its just that bit of extra speed that makes them miss the hook just a bit. Or they swipe at the head of the plastic and catch the hook a little low.

Good thing your hooks are sharp:)

Off the top of my head, I've hooked four fish that way.

The first was probably fifteen years ago on a very small stream, using a corky. I saw the fish, casted, drifted to the fish, which moved up a good foot to grab the corky.

Set the hook, fought the fish, landed it, and found it hooked right where yours is.

It was somewhat slow, swirly water, so my guess is that the corky slid up the line and hooked up on the bottom of the chin when I set it.

The other three times were hooked on...drifted pink worms. If I put the hook in the head of the worm, I get short strikes. If I put it 2/3 of the way down, I get more hookups, but occasionally hook a fish in the chin. If I use two hooks I don't like the drift of the worm anymore....so I go with one hook 2/3 of the way back.

Fish on...

Todd.

BTW, nice fish, Rich!

Rich-\
a pretty lady!!

I don't think it happens when the hook slides up the leader. If that was the case after the fish took the bait/lure the hook would be pulled into the side of the face opposite the angler. The fish would be hooked similar to those hooked while flossing or fishing an egg bead pegged several inches up from the hook.

Rather I think what happens is that the fish changed it's "mind" at the last minute and snagged itself. Basically the fish sees the bait/lure from a distances, makes a rush and at the last minute turns hooking itself. This accounts for the hard take. It occurs when there is good visibility in the water but rarely (ever?) in dirty water (less than a foot); if it was a case of a droopy hook water conditions would not make a difference.

In clear water I have watch fish make a move towards the fly (usually while watching from a high bank) and turn at the last second. The shock-wave cause the fly to move or tumble and the angler may feel a slight "pluck" even though the fish never took. If the fish turns away and up its chin is exposed. . . . Just a theory based on observation.

Tight lines
Smalma

Don't think I've ever hooked a salmon or steelhead there, but I've hooked a number of trout there while flyfishing. Kind of like Smalma said.

that is a sweet lookin fish

Did the same thing last sat with 4" of floating plastic.She slamed my worm first cast.I missed her but had very obvios teeth marks on my worm.next cast she slammed it again and I set.I got her in very short order and it was hooked in the same spot.I wondered also as I am used to corner of the jaw and she obviosly bit the hook.

nice fish!!!!

I dont know how many ive caught like that, 8 to 10, i was told that sometimes the fish like to smash the bait against the bottom..do i believe that? not likely... i think they just spit it out just before the hook set.

Rich


I don't want to start something here that gets misconstrued, but I have a few questions to ask you. First off, that a nice fish!

Secondly, it appears to have a full adipose fin intack, indication that it was a wild fish (is that correct?). If that is so, why would you be using a size 3/0 hook in waters that are holding wild steelhead?

I thought it was the general consciences of this board from reading the numerous posting about hooking mortality that the larger the hook size was, the higher the fatality rate will be on hook and released fish. It has been my experience as a guide, that when I was using hooks in the size of 2/0 and up, I experience a lot more bleeding and possible body damage to the fish that we had hooked. A 3/0 hooks leaves a lot larger exit wound then lets say a 1or 1/0 hook does.

Rich, please don't take these question personally, I do not want to offend any one, but I did find it strange that hook and release advocates such as you, would be using hooks in that size range in waters that are holding wild native steelheads. I find it even stranger that fellow c&r members hadn't already asked you the same question!

Am I missing something here? If so, what is it?

Was it a "hatchery" fish?



Cowlitzfisherman

when fishing for steelies i use a #2, and kings #1 or 1/0, i personally like the smaller hook so it doesnt drag my corkie down...anyone fish the puyallup recently and has the water dropped any?

CFM,

All my 5/0's say "Hatchery Fish Only Please". Problem is , there just isn't enough room to scribble "Please" on a 3/0.

One observation though on behalf on larger hooks is they are definately much easier to remove when releasing fish. Personally, I just can't see that much difference in the size or severity of wound made by a 3/0 as opposed to 2/0 hook. At least I'm sure we can all agree that a 1/0 barbed can do far more damage coming out than a 3/0 barbless hook.

Rich - happens a lot when using the plastic. The fish grabbed the plastic someplace other than the tail (and hook). As you set the hook, the hook basically just snaps up and whaps any and all flesh it finds, be it in or out side of the head.

I also use relatively large hooks on the OP and am a C&R advocate. Nothing smaller than a 2/0 under normal water conditions from February to April. I use the larger hooks because I miss less strikes and when I do hook up I can apply more pressure/bring 'em quicker because of the increased gap/holding power. Of course I'm using 15-20lb mainlines and the the larger hooks balance out these drift fishing outfit better too. I'm not speaking for Rich these are just my thoughts to your question CF.

2/0 w/ rags

3/0 w/worms

4/0 w/B-2s

I think CFM it was large hooks with bait taken deep. Don't want to cause any trouble .

First off, nice fish richy!!!
As far as I'm concerned, there is no one I know that cares more for native steelhead than you. If anyone out there has ever fished with Rich you will see that he handles all fish with extreme care. However, 3/0 is pretty darn big. I've found that smaller hooks tend to penetrate better and I've lost far fewer fish using smaller hooks. But believe me, Rich knows what he is doing and would do nothing to contribute to the hooking mortality of native steelies.

No offense taken CF,

I use 2/0 with rags and corkies and such and 3/0 with plastics.

When I was a kid we used the double hook set up in size 1 and 2. When it went to single barbless CnR regs above 101 in most of the places out here we had no choice but to switch to a single hook so we started using a single 2/0 in place of the double hook set up. We notticed it did far less damage to the fish useing the one Barbless 2/0 than the double 2's and we seemed to land just as many. We have never looked back and frankly I dont think ive ever had a wild winter steelhead die on me after I released it. But I dont drag them up on the bank, I never net them, and I give them lots of breaths when taking photos, (never out of water for more than 2 or 3 seconds at a time). And last but not least I dont go out there with to light of tackle like 8 to 10 pound test and a 1141 or 1082 so I get them in quick as I can.

Thanks Rich for your rely.

Obviously, there are lots of us fishermen that think that we know what we are doing (how to handle and release fish), but I think we may be missing the point, or the bigger picture here!

Releasing and handling fish is not the question here, or how long we may be keeping a fish out of the water. I believe that I can safely say that I have caught a lot, and killed a lot, of fish and I don't believe that too many other board members would question that statement. But we are not talking about handling and releasing fish here; we are talking about using an extremely large size of hook for c&r of wild fish.

I will put my personal experience on the line here on this issue. I know for a fact, that you care dearly about wild fish. But we apparently see things a little bit different on this issue. You are definitely right about the double hook issue. But in my professional opinion (and fishing was definitely my profession), you are wrong about using such large hook sizes for a hook and release fishery on wild steelhead.

Even if the bigger hooks may make it easer and faster for "the fishermen" to remove his hook, it is extremely hard for me to except or believe that a "bigger hook" is better for the survival of a wild steelhead. Since much of the mortality of a hooked fish occurs "AFTER" the fish has been released and has gone down stream; no one can see what has really happen, so who are we trying to kid?

As you know, I am not an anti "wild fish" advocate, nor do I preach that we only practice c&r; but I do understand how fish react to hooks, especially large hooks that are in the 3/0 size. Big hooks make big holes; big holes allow more bleeding, and more infection to enter the wound; which intern would also lead to higher mortality rates… one would reason!

About dragging fish up onto the bank; what makes a fishermen think that picking a fish up for picture taking is any worse then dragging a fish up onto the bank? Fish almost always have contact with rocks and river slime on there journey up river, but contact with people, or pictures is certainly not a natural occurrence in a fishes cycle!

I do not often challenge what c&r advocates may say about handling fish, or the size of the hook they use to catch wild fish, but on this one, I am very concerned!

Again Rich, I know that you care about wild fish, but I am very concerned about the hook size and holding wild fish out of the water for pictures. My clients have attempted to "hold" fish for pictures hundreds of times, which resulted in many times, the fish twisting out of their hands and slamming onto the rocks below! Not a very good thing for any fish that one wants to release unharmed!

I also assume that you were using a 3/0 barbless hook…right?


Cowlitzfisherman

It was barbless, I use barbless most of the time.

You have some good points that make sense about the hook making a bigger hole and possible causing more infection. which I agree could be a factor.

On the other side its not feasable to use anything smaller than 2/0 when using 6" plastic worms and rags and such. Not in my opinion anyways

I dont agree that holding a fish out of water for a few seconds with extreme care is the same as dragging a fish up onto the rocks. than kicking it back into the water when people figure out its wild, (which happens most of the time out here).

Plain and simple hooks poke holes in fishes mouths and do damage. I havent seen that it makes much difference in my experience as far as hook size goes. Barbed vs barbless or bait vs no bait. To light of gear vs the right gear. Using a nett vs no nett. These are all factors that in my opinion play a much larger role in the survival of the fish after release.

One problem I have faced using my old favorite 3/0s and 4/0s is really an issue on smaller fish, like up to 6-7#. The gap on the big hook can drive the point through the fish's eye. Doesn't happen often, but seldom is often enough for that kind of maiming of a fish that is planned for release. Never had that problem with 2/0 though.

GS

Picking up a fish and taking a quick photo when you know what your doing and use your head is not something you can compair to dragging a fish up on the bank. I see nothing wrong with that type of photo.

Pray for snow !!

B-run-
Hear you on the prayer for snow. The situation is beginning to look bleak. In the western Cascades the low elevation snow stations are less than 50% of normal and those above 4,000 feet only 50 to 70% of normal. With the next two week forecast being more dry weather not likely to improve much.

With the dry fall going into the winter water may be a huge issue this summer in much of the Northwest.

Tight lines
Smalma