Continuation of the thred started by DHaul and added to by Bob and hawk. . .

I agree with Bob and share the same concern as DHaul.

I think post-spawn fish are to be left alone, to enhance their chances of coming back for another round in a future year. Consider the population dynamics of future runs of steelhead. The more of these fish we harrass now, the more we select out potential re-spawner genetics in the future gene pool (ie. that's bad).

Having fished for years in both the Great Lakes and Pacific NW, I strongly feel there is a different ethic regarding fishing for spawners and post-spawn fish. Most steelheading in the midwest is done by "sight fishing" in the spring. This typically consists of looking for spawning fish on redds and then either antagonizing them to bite or "lining" them or overtly snagging them. 90% of the midwestern steelheaders would have no idea of how to catch a steelhead if they did not see the fish on a redd. I think this is a major regional difference in ethic. This is fine conduct for Lake Okeechobee bucketmouth bass, but give me a break, steelhead are different.

Two independent factors contribute to this difference, and complicate making a judgement in my mind. First, as pointed out, the GL steelhead aren't "native" fish, but rather were stocked from western runs years ago. I think that is a cop-out in trying to justify the regional ethic difference. The wildly reproducing GL steel should be elevated to a similar status, and similarly respected. A step in the right direction would be uniform fin-clipping of hatchery clones so we can tell the difference on the water, and release all the wild ones.

A second complicating factor, as hawk points out, is the different structure of watersheds and geology in the midwest. Many of the steelhead fisheries in the GL are conducted on tiny streams compared to the big waterways of the PacNW. Shutting down the spawning reaches to fishing (as is done in much of the PacNW) is not possible in the midwest, because that would encompass the entire watershed in many instances. That doesn't happen, and subsequently, most of the good GL fisheries occur within the best spawning habitat, during the heart of the spring run. This is what lots of folks call "pounding the redds".

It's probably substantially more complicated than all this, but in my opinion, there's a major regional ethics gap, and that disappoints me.

What do y'all think?

Although I have never fished in the PNW, I have plenty of freinds who fish out by you guys. The big thing here is bedripping fish off of redds in spring for steel, and fall for kings, cohos, and browns. I shake my head at this pratice especially in rivers with populations of wild fish. I don't know if this is the same case in the PNW but the fish here are really treated as a food resource only. I took a trip to Lake Huron in Nov, most of the streams are supported by natural repo, but just about 100% of the fish are all kept, the word conservation doesn't exist in many peoples heads there. Other than keeping fish and fishing redds, another big problem is about 95% of the people here don't rotate though holes and give other people a chance to get a shot at some fish, this results in many arguments. There is a hand full of guys around the Great Lakes that care about our resources and are hardcore steelhead and salmon, but they are few and far between. I don't know if this helps but these are a few things that I have heard doesn't exist as much in the PNW as it does here.

DT, I totally agree. I've seen some crowded places in the PacNW where people get the serious immovable lead-feet in a run and won't budge. I don't remember getting cut off too often though, with people jumping in below you on a hole as you're progressing down. That happens way too much on the streams I've fished in the midwest. I'm not sure it's mean-spirited. . .probably just ignorance. . .nobody realized there are some soft unwritten rules on the water. Anyways, I recently moved back to the midwest, and had to vent.

I agree that there are more "BED RIPPERS" than I care for. I cut my eye teeth fishing for steelies on the North Shore of Lake Superior. About 23 years ago, so I'm getting to be an old fart. Most of the fish caught in those rivers are rarely seen. High spring time flows and turbid waters limit "sight" fishing to the smaller creeks. I prefer to fish when I can not see fish. The "wild fish" on the North Shore are mandatory catch and release, and have been for many years. There is a movement right now to change that, and I hope it fails. These river systems are very fragile, and can not support a catch and kill fishery. That's why the plant loopers, but that's a whole other story. The regs on the Brule in Wisconsin do a real nice job of taking care of their fish.

I doubt that we will ever see "rotating" through holes as an option in the Midwest. Lots of guys get up at O dark hundred hour to fish in necked down areas of rivers where taveling fish will be. I highly doubt if you ever get them to give up that spot. I prefer to move as much as I can while fishing, but a guy is pretty limited as to where he can move and still be productive. Especially on the weekends. Hey DT, what do you think the chances of getting someone to move out of the run below Horlick dam, the Wier hole at the Root, Kletch, Capitol, or Estabrook at the Milwaukee? It's a novel concept, but I doubt if we'll ever see it. It would be sweet to be able to move around those rivers, as a guy could really pile up the numbers in a hurry.

Unfortunately these rivers are part of a put and take fishery, that also provide the cities of Chicago and Milwaukee with enough fish to keep people spending money and coming to the communities where the river and charter fishing is good. Don't know if you fished either one of those rivers 15 years ago, but they pale in comparison to what they use to be. Increased pressure on the lake and rivers have taken care of the excellent river fishing we used to enjoy.


We need to do a better job of teaching our fishermen the proper way to catch and release fish. No fingers in the gills, holding them out of water for 5 minutes of pictures, no milking loose eggs, no dropping them on the rocks, no laying them on the bank for a picture, no release in silty water. Too bad guys don't respect the fish and the fishery.

As for being to catch fish without seeing them, I agree. Lot's of the guys I see on the Wisconsin rivers would struggle to catch a fish on the North Shore of Lake Superior, much less Washington. They have been spoiled with huge numbers of fish in small river systems. if you want to be humbled, go bank fish the Skagit as a newbie, and you'll appreciate those real slow 10 fish days during the spring run on the Root.

Hey DT, curious if I have ever met you before on your home river. Peace

Hey Hawk, I am the guy who you talked to when your your dad and a couple of your buddies came to the milwaukee. The brown fishing never happened, it didn't even come close to what it was last year. I really struggled to get roe for my self. This fall I was lucky enough to fish Georgian Bay, all I have to say is those are the smartest fish I have ever seen. The guy we stayed with has fished all over BC and the Great Lakes, and says that those steel are by far the smartest fish he has ever fished for. So in general the trip was a real eye opener. I haven't been out in a while except fishing for winter browns at the lake front, but that has been real spotty. Shoot me an e-mail some time to do some float fishing, I hope this spring will be excellent with the fishing being almost non-existant this fall. Although the lack of snow this year isn't going to help at all. I will talk to you later

FB ... In actuality, all the open areas in the NW streams are spawning areas as well. A common falacy is that most fish spawn well upstream ... in some areas, that may hold true, but certainly not on most OP streams.

From what I hear of fisheries back east, what is different though is that most "sporting" NW steelheaders learn to recognize spawning areas and not fish those areas.

I've heard that lining salmon on their beds in the NY area is the only way people think you can catch them ...