There seems to be a big problem with Tribal Fisherman and their nets. Am I correct in this assumption? So could someone or all of you explain your hatred.
Thank You All for Your Replys

Anglin'4Salmon

I don't have any issues with tribes. The only anger I personally feel is toward those who continually destroy habitat\pollute and overharvest (including by-catch casualties). A lot of tribal and commercial fishing activites are guilty of both practices it would seem. And a lot of these issues are overlooked by the average voter for whatever reason, and Big Money seems to have the goverment in it's pocket. Some folks are just too quick to jump on the (fill in th blank) bashing bandwagon to take out there misguided anger. A problem it seems that has always been present and unfortunately will continue to be...

Do you really want to go there?

I have no problems with the tribes my problem is with the nets in general whoever is fishing them. I would love to see a ban on all nets in this state. A sport caught fish brings in more revenue to the state than a net caught fish ever will. Look how the Elliott Bay fishery was raped by nets last year. The sportsman didnt even get close to there half. You know the old saying 10% of the fisherman get 90% of the fish. Thats pretty much what happened in Elliott Bay the net fisherman took most of the fish.

to Easy & josh

I think you should go there.You've plainly got some thing to say. So you should get it out in the open.

If it helps I was once a Tribal Net fisherman.

I think Easy is saying that we've had similar posts get out of hand in the past. If you want to see what others think do a search and see if you can find some facts in the posts.

This could get real ugly. A4S, let's just say that tribal gillnetters are allegedly responsible for the decimation of the wild steelhead on the Nisqually, and that there is ongoing contention that the tribes take more than their fair share of the fish. Furthermore, gill nets, regardless of who is using them, do not descriminate between hatchery fish and wild fish. Most of the folks on this board, and other boards, are pro CnR of wild fish. Gill nets kill everything-period. I would not push this topic too hard, because every time it comes up the flames get out of hand. Just my opinion.

Ok, you asked for it you got it.

I have no problem with the tribes themselves
I recognize their legal treaty rights to half of the harvestable fish.
However, I have a big problem with gillnets. Not, that I think the fish cares how it dies. Nets or hooks or whatever, but I think the extensive gillnetting on some of our streams in dramatically impacting the genetics of our fish.
My problem is that the tribes are the biggest users of gillents in this part of the state.

Look at the coho on the green (mostly hatchery) or even the skagit (mostly wild). They're dinky compared to fish from streams that are not heavily so heavily netted (ie just about anywhere in Alaska). There is a huge selective pressure to be small on these streams so as to better evade the nets.

I've caught lots of sexually mature jack coho in elliot bay under 14" the past few years.

This is clear evidence that the gillnetting is influencing fish size. This is bad for all fishers. I think we would all like the fish to be bigger.

If the tribes could be convinced to use other methods that did not select against larger fish, I think we would all benefit. I think traditional methods such as reef netting or weirs might be prefereable; These could potentially even allow selective fisheries. ANYTHING BUT GILLENTS PLEASE.

Geoduck

I think someday the tribes and the fishermen well have to band togather to keep fishing rights in general. But the netting 3/4 across the river from on bank, and the netting 3/4 across from the other bank 10 yards apart, is just taking advantage of the returns alittle to much, abaned nets!!, the tribes choose the days to fish and then some, Ive seen purse seiners 7 days a week for weeks out side the samish. The battles to close the hatcherys keeps limiting the areas to catch/keep a fish for the fishermen but the tribe net when and where they want...I understand its all part of the original treaty but things are changing and its time for the tribes to see that they are taking fish from there own grandkids way of life. I have heard and witnessed the "because we can" practice that I think turns fishermen off the most....I was very pro-indian prior to moving to washington,,,but now Im not so sure, I think the tualip tribe does well with its bubble fishery, but reports of the tribes netting for example the rivers during low water when it was closed for sport fishing is a good example of my soap box....I keep optomistic on the tribes seeing the light...DJ

it truly doesn't matter to me WHO is putting in & pulling out the nets, the fact is, with nets in the water, less (alot less) fish make it home to make baby fish

plus, our state economy would be much better off if, we made this state all it could be & it could easily be the "anadromous fish capitol of the world" we have the technology & most importantly WE HAVE THE WATER! Of course, more = more pressure but, I believe it would be worth it

the holocaust we are experiencing now is the tragic waste of all of this water, an ecomist would call it "economic rent" that is essentially the difference (a loss, of course) in what you are making now vs. what you would be making if you utilized your resources to their optimum, conservativelly, considering the last calc. by state said fishing brought 4 billion to the economy, the economic rent on all this wasted water is in the billions .......

finally, doesn't it suck seeing, standing by, and/or floating on all this crisp clean rushing water, knowing there's little out there in front of or under you BUT WATER??? & the icky feeling inside from knowng it doesn't HAVE TO be that way?????

Anglin cast the bait and you are all biting!!!

I'm steering clear of this lure....

Not sure if you can get this picture to open, but here is the problem I see with netting the rivers. This net was from bank to bank in the Duwamish last September.

Ya, we have explored this can of worms several times. I would suggest looking at old threads on this topic instead of starting a new one.

Ok, here's my problem with the nets. Yes, they do greatly downsize the amount of fish in the river, but that isn't my main problem. The way I see it, if the tribe feels like they should be able to net the rivers because it is the way their ancestors did it, then they should be doing eveything as it was once done. Where does the line get drawn as to what they do and don't get to do? Maybe I am out of line here, but he asked my opinion, and there is it.

I am Irish... I want free taters !!! Its my god givin right as an Irishmen

once?? Okay, since you asked, what about your view? I am curious why you started this thread.
-rbf

F4F's pic speaks loudly, I drive by the river constantly and see many nets laid like this.....sometimes 10 or 20 yards apart.
From The 1st ave bridge all the way up to the oxbow parking lot. Seems like plankton could not get through sometimes much less escapement goals.

A4S I have seen the devastation in many ecosystems around the Pacific and I would sure hate to see Puget Sound added to that list.
The one thing I have seen time and time again is the folks that run these nets, whether they are in the sound, Columbia, Off shore, Phillipines, Samoa, Borneo, Australia, Indonesia.....( the list is long, very long), these folks live for today and have no regard for the future. Wether it is lack of education or greed or just ambivilance(sic) the effect is the same. As I see it we are at or above sustainable harvest in so many fisheries around here and everywhere. I see the abuses that are a direct result of mismanagement by the very stewards that are supposed to take care of the resource. Look at the Columbia, several years ago(?) the salmon gillnet season was shutdown due to low returns, the State then opened Sturgeon up to the gillnetters(?) and in a very short time thousands of tons of sturgeon were harvested, The fishery could not handle it and now the sporties are taking the brunt of the cuts in opportunity. It seems like there are more stories like this than there are gallons of water in the state. I have no animosity toward the tribes, christ I am 1/4 nate myself if it matters, its just that there is such a poor track record of management for the good of the resource, especially by the tribes. We will either learn from the mistakes of others or we will have no fish.
Do not think that this cannot happen, it is happening over and over again all over the world. I know of many places that 10 yrs or more ago were thriving reefs, when the fish ran out for the gillnetters they began dragging. When that ran out they started using cyanide. And when the aqarium fish ran out they started blasting the reef with dynamite because they could sell the coral, now nothing is left...nothing...I remember going back to the Island I am thinking of in Thailand and the devastation was unbelivable.... I cant express it... I cried...five years before there was one of the most beutiful reefs I had seen, now there is nothing but flat sandy bottom....
This is a recipe that has been followed time and time again...the species and techniques change from place to place. In poor economies it happens faster. The result NEVER CHANGES!
So you see A4S my personal animosity is toward those who are responsible for this type of destruction...regardless of skin color and the nets are a very large and very visible part of the problem. I wish I could find the words to express it better and I really did not mean to get so heavy, when I step back the big picture hits a little close to home. I do not want to see it happen here...and it already has.......

Ten years ago I was dirt poor, a step away from being homeless.My Uncle offered for me to help him and learn from him.
Now I remember going with my dad when I was like 3 years of age or so, right before he passed away from acholism. After my dad died I had hardly any contact with my dad's side of the family. Ohh, Yeah I'm only 1/2 Native American.I don't know if that matters to any of you.But it means I didn't grow up with the rich culture of my family and my tribe.Now I had a chance to learn a little about net fishing, something my dad did and my tribe has done for a very long time.
Although the whats and the whys of the we used to fish have changed dramaticly.Only a handful still to it today,at least in my tribe.
when I was learning, I was real excited it was fun but it was also lots of hard work.Especially when its 20 degrees on the river at the time. I hung in there though and worked my tail off. I did it for about 2 years.I've seen the all the chum on the banks females cut open left to rot, males untouched left to rot. Nets weaved across the river, or one net stretched all the way across. I was disgusted with the poor decisions made by those couple of tribal fisherman.My family was never invovled in any of those incedents. I'm very proud to say.
But to say that tribal fisherman are responsible for the descimation of salmon is utterly ridiculous.There are many other people and chemicals that contribute to that than a handful of tribal nets.
There was one suggestion that I thought about putting forward to my tribe.And, that would be to pay off tribal fisherman for 1-2 years.Have them stop fishing altogether. Give them something of a Unemployment type paycheck.But then what about the commercial companies,ect. Who's going to deal with them. Because , it's going to take a concerted effort all the way round for it to have any impact at all.

On an ending note there is much to tell and much to learn.Next time your on a river and see a tribal fisherman talk to him. Share your views. Listen to them and about the struggles that they had gone through just to be able to do what they do.My goal here was not to make enemys, but to get both sides.

Thanks and sorry for all the uproar.

Inyteresting view from your side Anglin.I think you probably caught more than a few people off guard with your reply.Good post

Still think gill netting sucks though.Along with some of the stuff you mentioned and didnt mention that have also helped ruin fisheries all over.