Why are questions such as, "Haven't white men done equally bad things in the past?" being asked? No offense to whoever wrote that. This shouldn't be an issue on the past or trying to make up for mistakes 100 years ago. The problem is in the present, and the solution is in the present and the future. The only history that needs to be looked at is the history of overfishing on the westcoast. It's happened from California to Alaska, and still continues today. I understand the importance of heritage and family, but my god! The net stretches all the way across the river and there's another one 20 yards away! That's insane, if I wanted to pass on my love for hunting to my children, I'd take them out and respect the bag limits and hunting seasons that are in effect at the time which we go. I'd do that because wildlife and fishes are a sustainable resource if managed properly. There's no need to go out and shoot 100 deer in order to get a kid hooked on hunting, and I don't understand why there's a need to put gillnets all the way across a river just to show a kid the way his ancestors used to fish and sustain themselves.
It's just completely asinine, people are taking a supreme court ruling from the past and exploiting the hell out of it. It's the same as buying a corvette, just because it can go 100+ miles an hour doesn't mean that it's safe or good for society as a whole to drive it like that. I see these nets as the same thing, just because a tribe is allowed to put nets in a river doesn't mean they have to cut off an entire run of fish. That'd would be like driving your corvette through a preschool and running over kids. You have the tool to do it, but that by NO means is a valid excuse to go and do it. Exactly the same as having the right to fish a river shouldn't be exploited into the right to push an entire run into extinction. Everyone needs to step back and look at the issue from a long term prospective. There are many conflicting view points, some want to teach their children the ways of their ancestors, some want to sell eggs to japan. No society should ever be treated as a whole like this. Some Americans want to bear arms to hunt for birds, other Americans want to bear arms to hold up liqour stores. Checks and balances are key to making any society function properly. The nets just don't have enough laws and regulations to keep them in balance, and they've gotten out of control. In the end, all anyone, native american, white, whatever, will have to look at is a river void of fish. What then? Everybody lost, and those natural runs will never come back. Never.

Man, I don't know if I'm doing the right thing wading back into this mess, but I just can't stand the misinformation that we all seem to labor under. Here are the facts - The US Govt. signed treaties with the tribes back in the 1800's. We wanted to move them off their land (not surprisingly they tended to live in the most desirable spots) and put them on reservations. The language of these treaties was somewhat imprecise which led to George Boldt's interpretation. Probably an unintended consequence of the treaty agreement, but there nonetheless. The Boldt decision has been upheld many times and like it or not, is the law of the land. Now, as for the fact that the Native Americans have special rights. Once again, possibly an unintended consequence, but they are in essence guaranteed these special rights by the treaties that were signed. And just to make it even more complex, treaties are held by our system as being the most difficult legal instrument to alter. It certainly requires the agreement of both parties in order to amend the treaty. Given the fact that the Native Americans have taken an admittedly bad result ( being moved from their home, losing a great deal of their heritage, boarding schools, etc, etc.) and turned it into a good result for them (1/2 the fish, casinos, cheap cigs, etc), we should be awfully careful what we wish for. Those nasty unintended consequences crop up from time to time. I seriously regret the policy of slavery for the African-American, I wish the Irish American was not discriminated against. In reality, those groups are not protected by a treaty signed in our name by the US Government. And guess what - we get to live with all the consequences, intended or not, of that action. I wish it were different, especially for the fishery resource, but as you know - wish in one hand and [Bleeeeep!] in the other - see which one fills up first.

Are we almost done here? <img border="0" alt="[wall]" title="" src="graemlins/wall.gif" />

parden my asking, but whats usual and custom about nylon nets and motor boats? and whoever said the river netters are not responsible for the demise of the fish is smoking crack! Just after the boldt decision the natives totally wiped out several runs of native fish in many many of the smaller rivers I fish that have since been re seeded mostly with green river fish which are now ridiculously called native fish in those rivers.

Just another thought,

Isnt special rights for Indians off the reservation government sponsered racism and discrimination. And so what if this subject has been beet to death in the past, there is some new guys out here that want to beet it some more.

Beets taste best with butter and pepper.. or maybe pickled. Hows that !!

Angling for Salmon,

minor note: Your quote is kinda depressing..... <img border="0" alt="[eat]" title="" src="graemlins/eat.gif" />

Good Fishing, Darin

A4S keeps casting and some of you keep biting.... He's having a really good day fishing at your blood pressures expense!!

I think he pulled up anchor and moved on to a better hole.

Earlier I could not reply. Problem w/web browser. So, I had started a new topic,"re: confused...need explanation".
I'm done with this subject and i said all that needed to be said. So I'll copy what I said there, here.
"Sorry I didn't mean to start a whole new thread,My web browser is having issues.
This post was about tribal fisherman and ended up being about tribal rights.This will be my last post on this subject.
I once again apologize for bringing up a very sensitive subject.I hold no ill feelings toward anyone or too the way the feel."
Anglin'4salmon

Really I think that this has been one of the more well mannered debates on this subject. It's a topic of concern for many, and I see no reason why it shouldn't be debated. Everyone looks for that one answer that will strike a divine balance between two sides, but at the same time we're scared to talk about it. How can we ever expect to find the answers to problems if their very subjects are considered taboo on the forum? Apathy has become a major issue of the times, everyone complains about fish and wildlife, but only half the people write letters or attend meetings. People complain about the president, but only half of them voted. I think Bob has created a golden opportunity through this board, just making people aware of the issues is half the battle, and this is a perfect environment for debate, some of which will hopefully lead to actions and an eventual change for the better.

A4S
Do you think you can get the tribe to hunt for seal,sea lions like they did the grey whale. I would even run interference for them like the coast guard, I wouldnt even mind running over a tree hugging jet skier. Just trying to get a smile...I liked your post and I agree that the average fisherman can see the nets but he might not be able to see the polution/chemicals
in the water. But Like I said I was pro-tribe prior to moving to washington and I have see this "because we can" thing pushed to the limit. I grew up with a few tribal friends and have 2 uncles that married into my family and I was taught from a young age hunting/fishing. My view of the elders was they were the ultimate in sportsmen, they only took what they needed, and the pride of the hunt and the pride of the fact that the animal deemed the hunter worthey to lay down his life stand in my memory. not lets rape the eggs out of the hens and feed the gulls, or lets shoot that big bull take the head/horns and sell the mount to the Out Back Steak house, or lets shoot all the elk on mount baker. or lets tke twice the limit that the sportsmen can take on the snow greese. Take what you need nothing more...DJ

"environmental terrorist" is not a term directed at the indigenouse. it is a term used to unfairly describe radical environmentalists and now the term is bieng used to describe those who are raping our resources. 99.9% of environmental terrorists in america are white but that does not mean pulling your punches to not offend netters who are netting like the photo above. The white jackass companies in the duwamish that have made it deadly to eat the fish in the area are enviro-terrorists as well. I am no indian hater. I have more indian friends(yes they want to be called indian) including sherman alexie, than most people have ever seen on tv. I also went to the largest indian college in the country and I have, unlike most, seen with my own eyes the devestation, poverty and despair heaped on these people. the way america treated the natives, (15 million slaughtered) is surely going to come back to haunt this country. But it is too much to watch white society convince the natives that raping our resources, is the way to fit in culturally and it is just as disgusting to see indians buy into it. i would rather see more casinos, hell... legalize marijuana on the reservations and tax it. just do anything to get a step ahead of the BIA and create some economic independance. or just continue to be the federal governments little side-kick and help them to overharvest ourselves right into extinction. Yes I believe the federal govt has set it up so that white people still eat all the fish but indians take the fall for it. 0f course when they are done with you, when the fat cats have all there money and all the fish are gone, they will discard the natives like a rotten chum. The native nations should all get together and say to the feds. "you know what, your harvest guidelines will end all fishing as we know it before our seventh generation, we are smarter than you... and we will be making our own much more conservative regulations to protect this resource for our grandkids" Now wouldnt that put it to the feds? Reservations have incredible, unlimited potential. The feds do not want you to realize it! look how hard they fought casinos! use the silver lining (albiet small) of these reservations to create economic independance, or when the fish run out, its back to comidity cheese! JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE A RIGHT.... DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT

........wonder how OJ's search for the "real killer" is going......

Did you ever notice that the tribes use the word native people alot but seldom use the word conquered people...do you really think the treatys were signed due to a stalemate of somekind...its time to join the human race your not any different...DJ