A4S I just want to make sure that you know I do not blame all the problems on the tribes. Just their own. I also look very harshly on almost all commercial fishing, and fish farming has its problems too...

we need a salmon/steelhead summit meeting ....with california, oregon, washington, BC and
Alaska ... with commercial , tribal, sport, biologists, representatives and reps for all other impacted groups such as farmers and the timber industry(wich by the way has killed billions of fry thru dramatically increased flooding).. One point that everyone should remember is that damms kill more salmon every year than all tribal sport and commercial fishing combined!!! we need to get all nets out of our rivers no matter what color the skin the environmental terrorist has who is running the nets. we need to open up all our rivers to 100% of there original spawning grounds. The little goose damm on the snake cut off 2300 miles of spawning territory. all that aside... if you promise to help stop indian netting of wild fish for a few years, i will help stop white commercial from taking any wild fish for a few years until we can get our runs stabilized. One thing I learned as a lobbyist is that the government very deliberately tries to pit groups of competing interests against eachother. I watched them do that with the spotted owl issue. It had nothing to do with envoro's vs loggers. logging unemployment rose 15% durring those years but they cut 25% more trees than ever. we cannot fall for that. We need to stay focused on the real culprits and most of them are in washington dc.

Nice words angling4. I think you probably educated some people here better than anyone else could. I'd like to see no nets in the rivers because they reduce the number of fish anglers can catch and that get to the spanwing grounds. But nets are only a fishing tool that can be used appropriately or not. The tribes are an easy scapegoat for all the major reasons salmon and steelhead runs are going to hell in a bucket -- which is not to say they don't share the blame ...

Chappy.....environmental terrorist ???

I don't think there's any need for that.

Good post Anglin'. I realize that the nets are in no way the only problem with lack of fish. I think one reason that people dislike them so much, is because it happens much closer to us. I'm sure that if I lived where the commercial boats came in, i would probably complain about them as much as i do about nets. This is the reason why in my post, I pointed out that the effects on fish was not my main problem. I wanted to give you credit on what you said, but my opinion is still the same as before.

Why an "unemployment type of check??" How about an education and an opertunity to seek a job?? Thats what all other minority Americans have to do. In the year 2003 its a pretty lame deal that Native Americans are still being singled out the way they are. Its a form of racisim.

If they want to learn a profession the tribe offers them the possibilities to do so.But, its not the tribe's job too make them stop doing what they've always done.Fishing in the tribe is kinda like a family business.The substitute paychecks would be only availble to those fisherman who have done so(fish) with in the last 3-5 year. Not to all tribal members.
I am in no way a fan of the endangering of the salmon runs.But, I won't tell my people not to do what the Supreme Courts made legal for them to do a long time ago.Native american people fought very hard on getting those rights. I'm not going to suggest to them that they quit forever.
We have to find a common ground which will be fair for all the peoples who utilize this resource.

Why does it have to be the "tribe" that offers anything. Why should native americans be any different than any other american. Why should they live on reservations. Why should other americans foot the bill. Why not the same treatment as every other american??? Maybe in 1800's but now???

One good reason why ???

Your opening a whole different can of worms there.Grab a history book or two.Check out literature written by Native Americans or something that at least tells the whole truth.
Find out and educate yourself

Its not a different can of worms..

Why should Native Americans be the only ethnic group with rights above and beyond any other american.

When other ethnic groups get togther they are known as "gangs"..

I know the history.. its pretty sad.. pretty sad that we continue to single native americans out as special. They need to move forward, not back. You said you were confused and needed an explanation. So here it is.

Its indeed confusing and is so lame it can't be explained

A4S,
Could you please tell me which history book to look in where it shows native americans stripping eggs from salmon for export to Japan?? And leaving the fish to rot. I cant find it in any of my history books.

B-Runs last post hits exactly on what i was trying to get at. It's good to know that I am not the only one that feels that way

If our Forefathers would have had any inkling of Judge Boldts decision there would be no treaties as there would be no tribes.

There is no way the treaties were written to give half of any resource to one group. Judge Boldts decision is a travesty.

All men should have equal rights. The fact that the tribes have special rights above and beyond the common man will cause friction until the balance is restored.

What a history book it would be

Lewis & Clark

As we approched the coast we were greeted by a handsome race of peoples. They rushed out to greet us in strange metal boats with loud boxes on the backs which moved these boats with great speed. They offered us a native drink called Keystone light and asked if we cared to visit their casino !!!

O.K, now I think I'll stop. I do feel better however.

B-Run,

I don't know what to tell you.My views on this would probably just anger you further.What you suggest might happen one day but not for as long as there are different peoples with different cultures.
In case you forgot We're called Native American for a reason. ( NATIVE implies birth or origin in a place or region and may suggest compatibility with it <native tribal customs>. INDIGENOUS applies to species or races and adds to NATIVE the implication of not having been introduced from elsewhere) meaning we are the Indigenous people of this land we call America,Hence Native American.
You say 1800s like it wasn't very long ago.Have you ever heard of culture shock:(noun: a sense of confusion and uncertainty sometimes with feelings of anxiety that may affect people exposed to an alien culture or environment without adequate preparation). In case you forgot native peoples had to be reformed made civil.That meant not being aloud to be who we were. And if you know your history then you know all about Children being taken from thier families and forced into boarding schools told to forget our culture our language.I'm not even going to explain reservations to you.Do I really need to go on....I think not.
Well there you go most of what I think out in the open.Take from it what you will.But please go out there and read up about what went on during those times

Like I said, I know the history. And it was a long time ago. You want to make it sound like yesterday. You have never lived the life of an indian from back in the day. You don't even know any who did or have. You don't know life without cars, planes, or probably even T.V - How can I say that??? the fact your even alive says your not old enough.

African Americans were forced to come here from a very similar living condition as the native americans lived in " a long time ago".. what concessions have been made for them. Thats right "homey"... none.

America is a land of opertunity regardless of race. Fine, its great to be in a tribe. Thats really neat. Heritige is importaint. But why should the rest of the people in the U.S.A have to pay you for it. Do you really think you suffer from " culture shock" as you drive down the road in your car.

It does not make me angry, it makes me sad. Every time I am on a reservation I realize what a dis-service the goverment is doing native americans. Its total racisim.

In your earlier post you said we had to restore the balance.Go back to where the balance was lost and then tell me how it needs to be restored.
All that traversty happened as soon ago as the 1940s-1950s.My uncle told me about his days in the boarding schools and his struggles through all the violence for native fishing rights.Reverbrations are felt through out time.
I may not have been there. but, I can feel the pain of loss. That we sometimes feel like we may never recover from it.
So, you tell me where the balance should be restored.

So your unkle was in a boarding school 50-60 years ago and you can't go on with your life?? My family was repressed by the english for 100's of years ( I am Irish) and I am pretty sure I got over it.

I work with a guy who is native american. 100% SHO/BANNOCK. His name is Gary. We call him Gary, not "Gary the native american". He is a pretty good guy and I know that being singled out as special or different insults him.

Whats your answer??? you must have something in mind ?? What would you like to see happen ?? Do you think Native Americans should have even more rights ??

With that I will stop posting on this thread. I don't want to get kicked off this board because I really enjoy reading it and I get a lot of good information from it. Like a few much smarter guys said right at the start.. this horse has been beat to death. I do hope you get over your "culture shock and reverberations" and the what not.

A4S,
Im still waiting for the name of this history book. I did a search for "Native Americans Guide To Raping Mother Earth" but that came up with nothing.

I'm not native, but I have friends who are. And when your Grandma was beaten for speaking her native tongue, it doesn't seem so distant. I don't condone certain practices of some native fishermen, as well as some non-native fishermen, but I'd have to ask, have white people not raped the earth in far more devastating fashion? Angling4, as you can tell, this issue brings out the worst in otherwise sane people....