Very funny!

Didn't he inherit that from dear ol dad's gulf war?

It is sad to say the reason it's funny is because it's close to the truth.

I thought hsi dad screwed up by not finishing waht he starterd. Jr. seems to be screwing up before he starts.

Who has rights to oil in iraq.? the french the germans and the russians.Whats the price ? the enslavement of the iraqi people. If we wanted the oil we would just trade arms to him like the rest of the u.n.

Sad but true.

I agree JLH, it's sad but true

You seem to forget that approximately 250,000 sons and daughters of America are on the wrong end of this humor. I personally don't think this is funny at all, especially seeing as I have to say farewell and be safe to some of MY soldiers tomorrow evening as they depart for the Persian Gulf. Think about it.
And where is Downriggin? And fishaddict? Boardmembers, on their way over there into harm's way. Probably more from PP board too. This attitude damns their sacrifices. Sorry for the explosion, I've had a few, but just think about it. 'Nuff said.

I love that so many are brainwashed by the headlines..... germany, france and russia profiting from iraqs oil!!!!! does anyone know that the USA and britian both get more oil from iraq than france or germany or russia?
REMEMBER CNN+ABC=CBS=NBC=BRAINWASHED.
How many know that 3 years before the gulf war..... Isreal, Britian and USA were sending billions of dollars in military equiptment to iraq?
How many know that very high CIA officials gave sadamm the wink and nod to invade IRAQ?
How many times will American kids die in the mud to protect us from republican frankenstein projects?

While my dad was watching his best friends die in NAM. ole george was AWOL from the texas air guard for a year and a half......
With such a moron in charge,,, the best way to support our troops is to keep em home!!!!!
If Isreal was willing to arm this guy, let ISREAL take him out and take the responsibility for it.

ooops... i meant to say gave the wink and nod to invade kuwait (who was diagonal drilling into iraqui oil)

Can't wait till the bombs start dropping on that crazy *******!
I'm sorry, did all you commie conservatives forget that most of the arab world has a price on our innocent civilians, ie. 9-11...
I'm all for taking the initiative by taking out the crazies and protecting our safety. Saddam's just the first in a long line of targets!
Can't wait to see the coverage on ABC,NBC, CNN, Fox, etc...

conservative commies?? really? wow u must be reeally intelligent. where in your list of crazies that need to be taken out do you fall? didnt you notice that the 9-11 highjackers came from countries that are our allies? now you want to make more allies to be safer? I bet you get all your info from headlines, wack natives and love damns and nets!
"conservatie commies"---wow... ill have to remember that moronic coment. you perfectly embody conservative thought... oh wait thats a contradiction of terms...... sound it out.... con-tra-dic-tion there ya go

The more I hear that only Americans died on 9/11. the madder I get. How many from foreign countrys were in the place and got killed also. Those killings were just not aimed at Americans. I think that they were aimed at everyone in the free world. And if they want to just kill that Idiot why not just send in some Special forces. You know Snipers.

Chappy,
Spoken like a true Liberal! How is that people like yourself can never speak factually and only emotionally? You are entitled to your opinion, however research the truth before you shoot your mouth off!

You seem to hate Bush, but why is there no anger coming from you about Sadaam? I know why! You hate America don't you? Why don't you and the rest of the America hating, IRAQ Apologists go over with Barbra Sreisand and the Hollywood crowd to Iraq and have a group hug. I also don't hear you complaining about your buddy Clinton for being a big part of the terroist threat we face today.
Shame on you!

Fish4steel,
I applaud your statement about our troops and understand your disgust about people like Chappy! Don't be discouraged though because they are in the very very very small minority in this country. Most Americans feel like we do.......
Protect and Defend our country and the freedom we enjoy!
God Bless you, our troops and our President !

Rad Tech,

Having a little bit of reservation about the war doesn't make one a Bush hater or anti-America. I voted for Bush, support our troops, but think this war effort is just about as intelligent as sticking your hand in a bee hive.

Saddam is a ruthless dictator. Is he the only ruthless dictator or the worst one in the world right now? Not a chance. Is he a danger to America? Not in my opinion. Any sort of bio or chemical attack he could muster- which would be quite small- would result in the US reacting with its entire might and would probably spell the end of Iraq's existance on planet earth. It would be an insane move and no analyist is pushing that Saddam would ever do anything that would certainly cause his own death.

Beyond that, our ties in the middle east are strained at best. Do we really want to make more Bin Ladens or have Israeli style suicide bombings spread across the world? By making enemies with Iraq you polarize the entire region which is suffering from a rise in Islamic fundamentalism as it is. The last thing you want is to give the fundamentalists reason to overthrow quasi-democracies like Egypt, which is the most powerful Arab country. Mubaraks rule is only legitamite by way of control of the military... if they believe he's too western friendly, they'll cap him like they did Sadat in 1982. Other than Saudi Arabia, our allies are walking a tight rope between keeping fundamentalists at bay and remaining somewhat west-sympathetic.

We're getting in to something that could be huge uniting arabs and perhaps the muslum world (fastest growing religion) against us. Is that smart? Does that foster global security? Not in my opinion.

Lastly, if we go in without United Nations sanction, we make enemies with the world. The US is powerful enough to get away with it, but do we want to past that line?

Our reasons are admirable but the I just don't see the reasoning for our Iraqi assult. Would I protest? No... I think its already decided that we're going in and anti-war protestors creep me out with their lack of knowledge (general don't kill babies approach).

Anyway, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. <img border="0" alt="[wall]" title="" src="graemlins/wall.gif" />

March 3, 2003 For your consideration!

Methinks the protestors protest too much

The worldwide antiwar movement hasn't accomplished much, but it has made George Bush and not Saddam Hussein the villain in certain European precincts. The demonstrators, who might have attacked Franklin D. Roosevelt instead of Adolf Hitler two generations ago, are looking through the wrong end of their binoculars. They're appealing to abstract notions of compassion instead of real issues of humanity.

Andrew Sullivan, the blogger columnist, gets it right. The war against Saddam Hussein, he writes, has taken on the contours of the culture wars. "Almost the whole academic class, the media elites, the college-educated urbanites, the entertainment industry and so on are now reflexively antiwar." The dogma is as inflexible and nondebatable as political correctness. And yet everything that Saddam Hussein stands for is an anathema to the people who make up these categories.

In Iraq there is no free speech. Amnesty International has carefully documented the torture of Iraqi women and children in the presence of their husbands, brothers and fathers. Iraqi dissidents are tortured with cigarette burns and electric shocks, and then murdered.

George W. Bush and Tony Blair are routinely derided on the posters and placards of demonstrators as "baby killers," but it was Saddam Hussein who gassed whole Kurdish families.. At least 100,000 Kurds were killed in 'near-genocidal" proportions, the first ethnic group since the Holocaust to be targeted for death by its own government. Most of the Kurds were not murdered by poison gas, writes Jeffrey Goldberg in the New Yorker magazine, "rather the genocide was carried out, in large part, in the traditional manner, with roundups at night, mass executions, and anonymous burials."

In Amman, Jordan, where a number of dissident Iraqi exiles have fled, men show their scars from the regime's torture chambers. "The people who are protesting the war don't know what the regime is like," says one young man, showing cigarette burns on a shin and scars on neck and breast from a brutal whipping with a power-cable. He says to a reporter for the Village Voice: "You tell Bush my people are waiting for him."

The argument of the antiwar movement is for delay and containment, but since delay is really an argument for more delay, the movement is really about hating the president and the attitudes he represents. The Europeans resent our prosperity and power and show disdain for the "McCulture" they deride but can't get enough of. Recent public-opinion polls in Germany show that almost three-quarters of the Germans say America has "too much power," and more than half find us a greater threat to peace than either Iraq or North Korea.

Unlike the peaceniks of the Vietnam War era, the peaceniks so far show no sympathy or apology for Saddam Hussein; there is no cry similar to "Ho, Ho, Ho Chi Minh; Ho Chi Minh Will Win." The demonstrators have appropriated only one memorable cliché from their parents: "Make Love, Not War."

There seems scant idealism among either the American and European demonstrators, no cries for "a better world." There's mostly a continual dump on Israel for not creating a Palestinian state, which has become an acceptable form of anti-Semitism. But if Saddam Hussein is nobody's friend, expecting him to change his ways is as naïve as it would have been to expect Hitler to have changed his in the 1930s. It didn't happen then and it won't happen now; war made the difference then and war will make the difference now.

It's always impossible to "prove" what will happen in the future. That's what Tony Blair meant when he said that no one would have believed a modern-day Jeremiah saying in August 2001 that an al-Qaida terrorist network would have to be destroyed and that the only way to do it was to invade Afghanistan: "Yet, my goodness," he says, "a few weeks later, thousands of people were killed in the streets of New York." When Israel bombed Iraq's nuclear reactor, it felt the wrath of world opinion, but who's sorry about that now?

Bill Clinton correctly identified the evil of Saddam Hussein five years ago. He saw him as the leader of a "rogue state with the weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists, drug traffickers or organized criminals who travel the world among us unnoticed." Too bad that all he did about Saddam was to give him more time.

More delay now in doing what nearly everyone agrees will have to be done sooner or later signals a deadly reluctance to deal not only with Saddam but future predators who will be - and maybe already are - gathering the chemical, biological and nuclear weapons of mass destruction. We can't see into the future, but we can learn from the past, if we only will.

Right on Rad Tech!!!!!!!!!!

well said Rad Tech and Big Shark!
CWUgirl, I agree with some of what you say and respect you for not blasting our president like some of these chanting, sign holding morons.
However I do disagree with you about Iraq not being a threat to us here at home. Do you think that Saddam is above supplying weapons to terrorists? I don't. And although we can't overwhelmingly "prove" it yet, I DO think he has everrything that Bush says he does (kinda have to think that Bush has access to a little more intelligence information than we do)...unfortunately I think our troops are going to be the first ones to suffer that pain
At least then we kill the SOB and try prop up what's left of his country.
As for the rest of the arab world...(I know this is an ignorant statement based entirely on my own opinion, but) I don't give a rip about any of them. As far as I'm concerned after 19 of our so-called allies flew panes into our buildings, it unfortunately became a religion based war. I know not all muslims are bad, but WAY too many of them HATE us for me to be comfortable with them. I jsut say close our doors to all muslims and cut off all ties with their governments...if they get pissed and want to go to war with us...bring it on!
As for oil, I think our best bet would be to align with another almost super power and help Russia utilize it's HUGE untapped oil reserves. Now imagine that, the two biggest powers in the world working together
who would need those piss ant rag heads then...they'd be free to go on whatever little jeeehaaad they frigging wanted. and if was towards either us or Russia, they'd get supersized crushed
Go Bush!
Go America!
Freedom for all who want it!

Right on Rad Tech.

Big Shark, you may have a point, but I'm not about to weed through all those words to find it.

What so many don't understand is that you can be a patriot, you can support our tropops and not support an ill thought war.

How better to support our troops than to want to keep them out of an unnecessary war. I supported George senior. In that case we were responding to a clear act of agression - and the world supported us. God knows what his little boy is responding to, and the world is rightly against us.

I love my country,but fear this government.!

Thanks Surecatch, I agree with you. Sad to see some board members so hopelessly brainwashed. It would be good if the fishing was better so that they could get away from the TV (U.S. media= mental poison) thats generating their hate, fear and confussion. Sad, Sad, Sad.

John Lee Hookum, I feel sorry for you.

This has been such a tough decision for me (as to whether I support the coming war against Iraq). My thoughts were just about perfectly listed by CWU girl. I, also support the troops - my belief is that the Commander in Chief is wrong - not acting with sinister intent - just wrong. I resent the pro-war folks trying to "own" the Support our troops stance. If we learned anything from the nightmare that was Vietnam, we learned that the troops were carrying out their orders - that was their job.
I also hear a lot of the pro-war folks talking about liberating the Iraqi people. A noble thought, but I believe to reach this conclusion requires a two-step decision process.
1. Is it a legitimate aim of US Foreign Policy to liberate oppressed peoples around the world? If yes, then -
2. What is the decision process to determine who will be the benefit of that Foreign Policy?

My belief is that if my tax dollars are to be spent on US Foreign Policy (or borrowed against future revenues via deficit spending) then we must undergo the above analysis. In performing that for myself, mindful of the fact that Billions of people find themselves living under oppresive regimes, the Iraqi people fall within the top ten oppressed peoples. I'm not certain that with the unintended consequences of war with Iraq (see CWU girl's excellent post) that they do rise to #1.

My thoughts - and you know, I might be wrong. Will the pro-war folks make the same admission?

Why do you all think that America's symbol is that of the "Eagle"?

It's pretty simple "for the many" to understand! We are always flying higher then most of the other "birds" are, and we have a keener eye for what is going on below us!

My one any only post on this topic!


Cowlitzfisherman

Maguana,

Don't feel sorry for. Feel sorry for the lives that will be lost unnecessarily. Feel sorry for the young American Soldiers that will die without the chance to catch that next big fish that you can continue to fish for.

I lost friends and family in Vietnam and I'm am sure that they would love to still have the chance to grab the fishing rod and drown a worm every now and then. So don't feel sorry for me feel sorry the brave young men that will die while your head is in the sand and you brain deactivated.

Feel sorry for the Gulf War vets that are suffering from the last war. Iraq is no immediate threat to our security. It is us thats willing to start this mess without U N or World support. Why can't we wait a few more weeks and give the inspectors a chance to finish the job? Is it because we have so many men over there now and we can't have them come home without killing a bunch of Sandni***rs for Isreal. I say let them continue to disarm as the inspectors are indicating they are doing.

Again I plead with you to kill your TV and try to understand the difference between good choices and bad choices. We can be brainwashed into believing anything, if feed the same old crap day and night. Thats how propaganda works. Remember the Mass Media can be worst than Agent Orange and is a WMD if applied to that end.

This president is the worst that I can remember in my life time. I am an Independant so I am free from prejudice when making this comparison. I will be glad when he and his Enron buddy's take all of there Loot and ride off into the sunset leaving this government and it's increasing deficit alone. That is all I will contribute to this thread.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste!

Hiding our heads in the sand will not prevent another 9-11. Hell, who were we invading when the towers fell? They dont need a reason other than hatred. Some of you are making it sound like we can reason with these people...reasonable people dont blow themselves up for Allah. Whether we go into Iraq or not we will always be a target. Believe it or not President Bush has a lot more information on the situation than you do. I know he shouldn't keep secrets from you, even in the name of national security, but it happens, get over it. If you were in Iraq, you'd lose your friggin head for speaking against Saddam. Thank god your lucky enough to be in america! It's going to happen, put the tie die away and support our troops.

Alot of those people are blowing themselves up because their land was taken by Isreal. There are Jews living in houses that were built by Palestinians. They were forced to move. They hate that they were forced to move. Would any of you feel different? 9-11 happened because of this. If Saddaam lends support to terrorism, then we should go after him, to prove a point to other nations that support terrorism. But to stop terrorism we will have to address Isreal.

Bush gained favor in my book when, not long after 9-11, he b*tched at the Isrealis for their aggression. I noticed he dosn't anymore........

I say, You F*** with America. Directly or even the thought. Be prepared to F***ing DIE!!! You Kill and American be prepared for everything you have ever known to be decimated!!! You want to play with the BULL??? You're gonna get stuck with the horns!! Got it?? Pretty simple damn rules!!

The object of war is not to die
for your country but to make
the other ******* die for his !!!!

Gen. Patton


DUTY, HONOR, COUNTRY!!!


PS hookem. I DO NOT FEEL SORRY FOR OUR SOLDIERS!!!

I salute everyone of them. Being a vet of Somalia and the Gulf I know what you are going through....

US ARMY. 68L '89-'95

"Naturally the common people dont want war, but after all it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is allways a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a parliment, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can allways be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them you are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country"

Hermann Goering-HITLERS REICH MARSHALL quoted at the Nuremberg trials

Anyone else notice how much more aggressive Isreal has gotten towards the Palestinians since we've moved some troops over there?

How come we didn't do anything to Qatar when we discovered that their Crown Prince helped the #2 man in the al Quida escape capture?

How come we're not doing anything to Saudi Arabia when most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi?

When the US disregards authority by telling the UN we don't care what you think, we're going to do what we want; what message does that send to the world? To our kids?

As long as Hans Blix is making progress -- and the eyes of the entire world are on Iraq -- why are we in such a rush to go to war?

What do we say to the mother standing by the flag-draped coffin when she says, "If you'd just let the weapons inspectors continue, my soldier would still be alive."

"No one is more anti-war than a soldier." -- General Tommy Frank, Cdr CenCOM

Colin Powell referring to a best case worst case scenario:

"We are looking at a full range of options, from a walk in the sun to destruction of the oil fields."

Somewhere in the middle is the use of chemical weapons, troop casualties, terrorist attacks, and the war escalating beyond Iraq.

chappy

Don't you know how to post anything about fishing? This is a fishing site you know, give us a break!

I just went through every posting that you have ever made on this board, and this is what I had found that YOU have stated about youself:

You love cougars
You love sea lions
You love orcas
You hate guns...you hate guns... and you hate guns!
You are a lobbyist
You hate both Bush's
You hate republicans
You hate Chaney
You hate G. Bush because he has increased the hatchery programs from 15 to 58 million dollars
You hate both Bush and Cheney because they both live in homes that are "environmentalist's wet dream"
You love the U.N.
You hate having wars with any nation that produces oil
You like to read and quote Nazi's stuff
You think that CNN, CBS, ABC, and NBC are all "Brainwashed"
You don't care much for Israel
You want to boycott all Safeway stores
You an "admitted hippie and Liberal"
You are a professional fighter, marshal art expert/wrestling champion/ prp-boxer and you knock out teeth and brake people noses and bones
You know how to tie jigs

It sure appears to me, that your agenda is more political then it about adding informative impute about fishing. I would suggest that everyone else also do a search and see just how far off I am.

Sorry chappy, but it's pretty much what you have stated in those 20 postings of yours!


Lets all get back to talking about our fish again and save this war talk for other websites!


Cowlitzfisherman

Cowfish, please refer to 4salts post in another thread that points out the faults of your last post. Again I ask you to read 4salts comments in that thread... and do it slowly and methodically in order for you to stop making the same mistake and expecting different results. (I believe that behavior is considered insanity if it continue to repeat itself.)

Again none of us are perfect, and it can take some of us longer to understand what is so simple for others to grasp. Sometimes putting away the ego can help us to become better people.

The mind is a terrible thing to waste.

goharley,

John Lee Hookum

Thanks for asking me to refer to the other reply
This was my reply to that post!

chappy

You are right, you probably would kick my a$$ in a boxing match! But before you were done with me you sure would know that I was there!

It's really not that hard for a guy that is 25 years younger to beat up a guy that is 56, but I am sure that you can find a way to debate that one too. But if you want to debate fishing issues, let's go for it kid!

As for you 4Salt,

You are right!
When a person makes over 700 posting, he is surely going to get a few like you pretty excited, especially when they disagree about many issues. You are also right when you said that I was passionate and outspoken. Apparently, in your mind those are bad qualities. That's funny, because that is the exact same way that I feel about you.

You're also right about me loving hatcheries and bonking hatchery fish! What's so bad in your mind about that? You say that I "?love to peek into board members profiles, and try to use the information that you find to discredit the opinion of the poster that you dislike." Well if you put that information in your profile for us to read, what do you have to fear?

You can read my profile and do as you may with it. I have put myself and the view of and in front of the public for the last 17 years concerning fishing issues. That's why your worded attacks on me are so darn funny! On a score of 1-10, your attacks might make a 6.

You should spend the time and read my 700 plus posts. You will find that I am consistent with what I say, regardless if you agree with me or not. Again, 4Salt, I will agree with you that I have "got nads accusing anyone of "Furthering their agenda."

You're also right that I am probably more guilty of that than ANYONE else on the board! But almost every post (over 700) that I have made, concern fish or fish-law related issues. If I am wrong, show me!

Finally, 4Salt, apparently our chemistry just doesn't mix to well, but we should both try to correct that problem. Are you game... I am!

P.S. thanks for the good words Darin!

Cowlitzfisherman

Sure Cowlitz, I'm game!

Our biggest problem as I see it is that we don't seem to be conveying our true intent to each other, and defensiveness is getting in the way.

I don't dislike you, I don't even know you, just like you don't know me. All we see is the board personalities that we portray when making posts here. Word has it that you've done a lot to benefit sportfishing.

Our opinions are usually so polar opposite that I get a kick out of some of the things you say, and the positions that you take, just like you probably do mine.

What you've just written is a perfect example. Where did I say that any of the virtues and positions I listed about you were bad, or were wrong?

I was merely giving you a dose of the same medicine that you were giving to Chappy.

As far as any personal issues you think I may have with you, I think it stems from my overall sense of fairness. When I see someone get bullied, or see obvious (to me anyway) mis-information being spread as gospel truth, like you, I feel compelled to remedy the situation.

Again, it's nothing personal against you Cowlitz, maybe I just need to take things a little (OK, maybe a LOT! ) less seriously sometimes.

So on that note, in the immortal words of Superfly,

PEACE!

4Salt

Peace back!

Cowlitzfisherman

BigShark, CWU Girl -both well stated and said!

Cheers, Darin