You must have watched the discovery channel special on Ice ages and the currents in the ocean on acid, pretty amazing stuff freshwater rivers running through the oceans around the world, and how that effects global weather patterns etc.....


Yes, there was an Ice age. so what?
Fish have been known to run rivers other than the one they were born in. Purely speculation though maybe during the Ice age Washington fish went on vaccation to California I guess we(as in humans) will find out during the next ice age. Again, There will be another ice age. That Isnt a reason to take all we can get now because this place is going to be covered in another sheet of ice.

Uh like I'm going to crash my truck on purpose because the stats show I will probably get in a wreck down the road anyways.

Confucious say: Impending death is no reason for premature death DUDE

why is it so important that we all agree washington was covered with ice.
when are you going to drop the big bombshell
and make us go ooooh, ahhhhh

Again you still have the blinders on! yes fish need a helping hand. We just disagree on how. recreational anglers are not the problem. they havent ever been the problem. how many more rule and regs are you going to waste your time on before you realize that.

Is the glass half empty or is it half full?
For some people the glass is not a glass but a solid cylinder in which information cannot not be given out nor taken in.

I say sportfishermen are not the problem because 10% of the fishermen catch 90% of the fish.

when I see 300 people at blue creek and only 15 to twenty fish caught compared too the hundreds of fish caught in the same amount of time by one native and a net, or 30 boats out blackmouth fishing all winter and maybe 10 of those boats getting one or two fish consistently compared two one 3 hour trip with a pursein boat with over 2000 pounds in one haul.

Call me a blockhead or what ever but I still say sportsfishermen are not the problem.

Poachers and scumbags are a problem, but they dont go by rules anyways. poachers and scumbags are not sportsfishermen.

I used to fish the skok and the Quil alot and 90% of the fish kept by people were snagged. more like 98.6% of the fish on the quil are snagged its just a hatchery meat factory. I now wish I took some pictures to share so people can see what a poacher fest these two hatchery fisheries have turned into. The native fish in both those rivers were toast long before the snag fest began. and more regs and closures arent going to stop the poachers that just gives them free reign i.e Tah... and Dew..... rivers. Theres so many people concentrated on these rivers thanks to closures elsewhere that It would be very hard to catch a fish the old fashion way. I am sorry but fish dont bite when there is 20 people standing right above them yanking away ripping the water and more and more people are turning to snagging to bring something home. Thats one of the problems I have with more rules, regs, and closures they concentrate people on certain fisheries and it turns into a snag fest.

I have found other places to fish that I will never list due to this fact. I prefer the challenge to get the fish to bite. for me There just isnt any gratifacation in snagging fish. I dont need to show the world that I catch fish. I fish for myself. I guess you could say I am selfish, but it beats the alternatives.

But even at that poachers cant compare to nets, and sportfishermen are still not the problem.

Easy there, H20, you're making their heads hurt!

People don't like to hear that in 5,000 years or so, the odds say all of Washington State will be covered under ice..again...regardless if the human species is still around or not.

As for steelhead - they are a relatively new fish. They will come and go fairly quickly (geologically speaking) like most of the fish.

Didn't I read some place that 99% of all species to inhabit the earth are now extinct? Those odds don't bode well for any of the current non-extinct species.

Besides, it's all a moot point, as our planet will not be capable of supporting "life" in a billion years or so. Damn that sun of ours! She is such a harsh mistress!

In the meantime, you all can gaze at the stars, ponder the future, think about geology, or pray to whom or what ever it is you pray to, but I'm going fishing!

Beautiful grandkids AuntyM....If I could figure out how to post a picture I'd post one of my 1 year old grandson...He and I already have fishing plans..he just doesn't know what fishing is yet. He is the future and hopefully he won't spend alot of time worrying about an ice age on the distant horizon. He will appreciate what he has and respect the natural resources around him if I have any influence on him.

H20: I can't for the life of me understand where you are coming from. Ice ages??? Jesus is dead?? Beats the heck out of me what your vision of the future of fishing may be, not to mention your action plan for the present. All I can drag out of your ramblings is that you might be reading Al Gore's book...you and the other 12 people who bought it.

Wild fish need to be saved but they are not the end all answer to the problems we face with our envorinment and natural resources. Wild fish can be an indicator of our neglect in the past....Wake up call maybe...As far as I am concerned we need to look at several causes that need addressing. The impending ice age is not even on the list.

AuntyM-

I'm sure you are the one person participating in this thread that Parker was NOT referring to.....

Perhaps it will disappoint you but there is no real punchline.

I quit posting on this thread for awhile because my intention is not to get into a 'sporties v...or wild v....' conversation (and I'm a touch busy) , but to explore the philosophical question 'If OP rivers are predestined for a natural extinction event, then what difference do barbless hooks make really? What difference does it make if you hold the fish out of the water for a photo or leave it in? What difference does it make if we catch wild or hatchery steelhead? What difference do all the things we usually discuss around here really make in the context of geologic time? This thought occurred to me as I was driving through the Smith river valley on my way to San Francisco this weekend and the answers I kept coming up with conflict with my general belief system. When this happens I like to talk it out, especially with people that will challenge me to potentially think a different way.

I think people often hold too high a regard for themselves when it comes to their views on the natural world. Often people can't look past the end of their own lifetime when examining how we humans impact the environment. Very, very seldom do I hear anyone anywhere talk about the impact of the environment on human beings. This is illustrative of my point....

Grandpa -
Its not surprising to me that you would not 'get' what I am talking about. Not because I think any less of you than I do myself but because I know that you already 'don't like me', you have me 'pegged', you know my 'type', you think I'm a 'lib', I'm 'on drugs'...from what I have read from you this makes you much less likely to take anything I write seriously. Fine.... You can't see past my dark sense of humor far enough to see that I may, as do 99% percent of other human beings in the world, have something to offer you in terms of conversation if you would just take the time to listen to what I have to say. You'll never do that though will you?...because you have me pegged. I submit to you sir, that is your loss.

I can tell you this much with certainty. I don't know you, my only frame of reference for you is what you post on the board. Granted, I disagree with most of what you have to say but at least I afford you the respect of listening to what you have to say. I've even been known to *egad* acknowledge when I'm wrong...even alter my views based on conversations had on these boards. There are even some board members who have many more reasons than you do to dislike me would acknowledge that I keep an open mind in nearly every conversation, sometimes even while vehemently arguing one particular side.

All you saw was Jesus is dead? Remember if you would that I didn't bring religious beliefs into the conversation. If some other guy can jump in and thump the figurative Bible without even addressing the actual question I raised, then I should be able to thumb my figurative nose at it. I'm sure you will add 'heathen' now to your list of reasons why you don't like h2o. BTW...this conversation was never about religion.

I disgree sportsman are a problem!!

most people die of lots of little bugs/germs
very few die by .45

the wild steelhead will die one fish at a time because they will quit netting when they can't get a bunch but we will all still fish as long as they let us no matter how unlikely it is to actualy catch one. need an example how many trips for hatchery steel were made in january after the dismal returns of december??

ARE YOU PART OF THE PROBLEM I AM

Enough already H20...How could I like or dislike you not having met you? I don't hate people who have different ideas than I do. You disagree with most of what I say , as you admit. So rather than dislike YOU it is your ideas I dislike and do not buy for one second. If I wasn't trying to listen and understand what your central point is I wouldn't bother writing you back to tell you I think you are full of ****. Don't think for a minute that what you are trying to say is so profound and intellectual that mere mortals simply can't understand it....You aren't as intriguing as you think you are.

Now one more time: What's your point?

Reminds me of a class discussion that one of my college professors initiated regarding the theory of "Pre-de-ter-min-ism".... and just as in this thread it stimulated a lot of thought.

I still remember after more than 30+ years... must have been a good discussion.

I gotta tell you grandpa. You've been pretty pissy lately.

Relax and enjoy your grandkids.

This whole thread is just chock full of some rank, smelly, CRAP!
Sportfisherman, Commercial Fisherman, Native Fisherman, The friggin' next Ice Age. We are all the problem.We are causing the extinction of all life on this beautiful world. Even the world itself.
This stupid finger pointing has got to cease. It doesn't solve anything. Lets blame someone for something. While you sit at your fishing hole complaining about how bad the fishing has gotten or how bad the weathers getting. What are you doing to help things improve.
I think what H2O is saying. Why is he trying so hard to improve things if no one else will. So why prolong the inevitable. So tomorrrow I'm going start both my cars and let them run all day long. Cut down every tree in my yard. spray paint my house and garage. And lastly I'm going to go buy a 50 gallon drum of some potent weed killer an dump it the stream in my back yard.
P.S.
Lets all go snagging!
Anglin'4Salmon

I just had to get a post in on this thread. Remember there is allways me for liberal bashing. but on a real note rattletrap- there did use to be a steelhead run in mexico. it was on the tijuana which is basically as far north as a river gets in mexico but it was there. now those must of been some welcome ********.... ooops Im a liberal I cant say that.

Thanks for the advise Dan..I am going to take you up on that..Gotta go out and buy a rod and reel for the grandson who turns 1 year old soon. He makes me happy and he never once has brought up politics or religion.

Yep, and I'll bet you enjoy every minute you spend together. Some of my most memorable days were spent fishing with my grandpa.

If your view towards the environment (huge topic obviously....peaceful coexistance with other species is probably the key catch phrase) is indifference or exploitation, then it doesn't matter. If you lean a little more towards symbiosis, then of course it matters.

Duh.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AuntyM:
[QB] Is this about the upcoming ice age, religion, or was H20 subtly trying to get the "group" to analyze what their personal feelings were and why it might be more important to save wild fish and not our immediate opportunity?

Yes.