I just returned from the OP where I spent all of last week. We released probably close to 20 wild fish (some might be long distance C&R) But were guilty of killing one that was bleeding extremely bad from her gills. Am I in the wrong? I just want a few opinions on this.
Yes or no. Why or why not.

We recieved a major guilt trip from the guide on the river at the end of the day.

I guess I am just sick and tired of all of the hypocrites out there. My fishing partner and I have released so many wild steelhead in the last few years I have lost track. I know that still don't make it right to kill them but I would love to look on some of these old timers punch cards from the past and see how many wild fish they have killed.

Hay mini:
if its open and the fish is bleeding to the point that it is going to die, why wast it.
I was up at the sol duc last week and I kept one to mount, and dont really care what people think if it bothers you then thats a personal feeling you deal with. as for the guid P**s on em he wouldt like me verry much.
happy fishing assy

If it's going to die, better in your boat than seagull food. It is a shame, you do the best you can, but if it is a lost cause, keep the fish, toss the guide.

Sounds like you are doing the best you can. No one can ask more from you.

I once read a B.C. study where they found that slightly more than 30 of the fish that were bleeding profusley, at the time of release survived. Don't have any idea of waht "bleeding profusley" means, but I think it tells me that many fish that are bleeding will survive.
I do remember they determined "survival" by keeping the fish in a tank for three days. Those that looked to be in good shape at the end of day three were considered survivors. That said, if it was legal to kill and you beleived it wouldl die, keeping it is the right thing to do.

Did the right thing in my book, waste not want not.

Thumbs up here......good (and responsible) fishing!! Here's to ya......

"We recieved a major guilt trip from the guide on the river at the end of the day."

Did the fish die on you while you were on a trip? Perhaps the guide's choice of fishing methods played a part in it??

It's gonna happen no matter how careful you are from time to time ... but anglers can lessen the chances of it happening by fishing wisely.

assalyanizim ... why kill the fish for a mount? No need this day in age for a steelhead mount around these parts! Lame excuse in my book.

Bob, actually it was myself and my fishing partner in our own boat fishing behind the guide all day. What are "wiser" fishing methods? Have you kept a bleeding fish while fishing on the OP?

Oh, guys will use bait divers and stuff that's more likely to hook them deep.

It's your call out there. If I landed a wild fish that was bleeding badly and was turning belly-up, I'd probably keep it, providing it was legal to do so. I'd feel bad about it, but I'm sure I wouldn't lose any sleep.

we have all been there. dont beat your head against the wall. it sucks when it happens but all of us have probably had fish swim off only to die a while later. take it as a good sign that the guide felt the way he did. it just show that the education campaign is working... even if it was a lil hypocritical

Now I dont know the rules for that river but as far as keeping a native that is bleeding is a no, no in my book. How is that supposed to stop the average idiot from saying that the natives they are keeping were bleeding badly and they had to keep it. I believe you are ethical fisherman and you figure the fish is going to die anyway, so why not keep it, but you are not following the rules. If you can keep natives in those waters then its a personal choice but if its a rule, dont break it no matter what. We need to set examples for others in an effort to hopefully change things.

I bet that wild fish tasted GREAT!!! Don't beat yourself I would have done the same thing. YUMMY!

Actually, he WAS following the rules. It is legal to retain a nate in the system he was fishing.

Bob;
CAre to explain why you feel that way?
do you have any mounts ?
why can't some one mount a nice fish they cought don't get your point.

I don't mean to speak for Bob, but I believe the point is that there is no need to kill the fish for a mount. Fiberglass reproductions often look much better and will definately last longer. All that's needed is some measurements and photos.

Why keep a fish for a trophy unless you specifically want a skin mount to prove that the trophy is valid? One can just as easily take measurements and supply those and a photo to the taxidermist for a realistic replica.

In fact... Why fish for a trophy in the first place? One can simply tell a taxidermist to whip you up a realistic fish of any desired size.

Keep Bleeding Fish - After my knife has slipped through the base of the fishes gills and the profuse bleeding has stopped, I usually consider the fish dead and remove the viscera, gills and kidney.

This is the best way to treat a steelhead unless you would rather release it then eat it.

--- --- --- --- ---

"In its truest form "conservation" of a wild species, wild place, or other renewable resource means to nurture it to the point where its abundance allows for virtually every "use" whether consumptive or non-consumptive."

I would just mention that a dead fish in the water is not "wasted", it's food for the inhabitants of the river including juvenille salmonids. I don't blame anyone for legally keeping a wild fish, but the thought that the carcass is wasted is selfish.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wild Chrome:
I would just mention that a dead fish in the water is not "wasted", it's food for the inhabitants of the river including juvenille salmonids. I don't blame anyone for legally keeping a wild fish, but the thought that the carcass is wasted is selfish. [/QUOT

I agree with you WC but the thought of letting a DEAD fish just swim away does not sit well with me..............................

The system we fish is OPEN to native retention,
but the Q is---should we kill because the fish is bleeding???????????

And I am still waiting for a reply from BOB about more "WISER" fishing methods???????

We don't pull divers and bait........................

We feed the monkey and watch him "sh ee!t

Plunker, Please - you're killin' me - but April 1 is over, isn't it. But your attempt to fool us all into thinking that you are a crazed NWfishing.com exile was very good.

I just want everyone to know I was not trying to start a "Wild fish kill or not to kill post!!!!!!!!!!!

Just some well appreciated posts!!!!!!!!!!

Just wanted some of the well educated board members To inform me on the popular opinion of this matter?????????????

Oh.... and the greatest site to see was Bob and Fishgal driving through Forks when the rivers were almost """"""PERFECT"""""""" :p

assalyanizim ... this day in age with a number of the region's best taxidermists offering top-notch reproductions for wild steelhead, the old phrase of "But I'm gonna mount it" doesn't cut it as an excuse to harvest one. In fact, it's all the more reason it should have been let go in my book. See that fish up top on the page ... a gorgeous 43" buck that swam away, yet still made a magnificent coffee table mount.

Yes, I have one steelie on the wall that I had mounted about ten years ago. Had I known then that reproductions would become common in future years ... I would have let that fish go as well. There is no longer the need to harvest a wild steelhead to get that mount that many anglers wish to have.

MB ... As I mentioned, sometimes not matter what you do, there are going to be instances where no matter how careful you are, things aren't going to go the fish's way. But some things anglers can do to help limit mortality:

Ahead of time, your gear ...

1) Fish with selective gear types. No bait, no barbs. Only thing I see in everyday use that I would do when rules allow would be to run a single barbless treble on plugs rather than a large siwash. In my observations, there seems to be less damage.
2) If you fish bait, use it wisely. No divers, no tiny baits, no tiny hooks, no double hook rigs.
3) No light lining, keep drags firm.

While fishing ...
1) Set the hook promptly on all strikes, no "feeding" the fish or waiting for lots of weight.
2) Anything drfited from a MOVING boat should be behind the boat ... this allows hookset to be instant. Offerings in front of MOVING boat mean line goes slack on bite and often is no different than running a diver.
3) Avoid "spawner" water. Know your water and avoid areas where post spawn fish stack up. I know of a number of guides who like to beat on these fish to pad numbers. However, these fish will be actively feeding again and often swallow whatever you put in front of them. These are some of our most important members of a steelhead population ... with the average repeat female being 30% more fecund than a first-time spawner.
4) Avoid actively spawning fish and do not drag anchor to slow your drift. You should either have anchor all the way up, or firmly planted. And not only in late steelhead season, remember that you're often going through salmon spawning areas in early steelhead season and those beds should be respected as well.

Playing your fish ...

1) As I mentioned, no light lines, firm drags.
2) If you see any blood during fight, row to fish and end it ASAP.
3) Look for your landing spots before the moment arrives.
4) In rivers such as the 'Duc or other streams w/o any gravel, consider the use of C&R net (lots of threads on these). Ends fight quicker, avoids flopping around big rocks along edges that are common on our streams.
5) Remove hook when possible ... don't pull the brab leader and snap it off trick that I seem to see more often. If hooked deeply, cut it off.
6) Have partner get camera out while you're playing fish if you want a picture ... don't wait until the very moment of the picture.

After fish landed ...

1) No fish in boat, period! I'd guess that even with an expereinced angler, about 1 in five squirms from grip sometime during a picture session ... let them land harmlessly in the water, not in the bottom of a boat!
2) See 6 above ... do not sit there with fish out of water while you fumble for / turn on cameras. If you want a pic, plan ahead! Treat fish out of water as you'd like to be treated underwater ... not very long!
3) Don't move fish back and forth in current to revive ... hold head upstream and that's it. If you did well on everything above, there should be little / no reviving necessary.
4) If you do need to let the fish regain it's balance, do it in clean water ... if you muddied some up, move the fish into cleaner water.

While I'm sure I missed some ... there's some quick thoughts from me

BOB:
Thanks for the reply. but I still feil that the fish I cought it was cool to keep. was a third year spawner, That from my under standing by talking with Tom it was its last year, so I dont feil bad at all it droped and will bring me lots of joy. but I also do beleive that Skin mounts prove so much more. whith computers to day I can take that same fish you cought put my face in it and what dont show? nothin gues we will dis agree on this but hay. I respect how yopu feil and your opinion.
ASSY

I've had one fish mounted...an 8 pound largemouth bass. When I got it back, the girth was not as impressive as it was on the fish when I took it to the taxidermist. He informed me that in the drying process the skin shrinks. He had actually pulled a little of the "other" side to make it look fatter, but it's still not as impressive as the photo. A reproduction could've been more accurate, I believe. The photo is all the proof I need.
Just my observations.

I would have done the same thing. You don't turn a dead fish away from the dinner table. If it's legal to keep em why not keep em? I don't think most of these so called "wild" fish are in fact wild anyways. If they shouldn't be kept how come the season is open for the harvest of wild fish?

wild:
thats cool, but my taxi is the best in florda, he's won every compitition he's enterd but 1 and he's curently 2nd. so I think Ill be impressed Ill shoot some pics when I get it. and then I will let you decide. You have to remember most of the work isnt work. it's art, and you must have a good artist.

assy

Two things...well actually three.

First...because this was the fish's 3rd time spawning, it is all that much more important that the fish was given the chance to spawn as repeat spawners provide more eggs (if a female ofcourse) then a first time spawner...so that is no excuse.

Secondly...what the Hell do you need to prove???...you killed this beautiful wild steelhead that had so much potential to provide so many young so you can prove something???...that is the most assonine statement I have heard in a long while!!

And thirdly...what the Hell does 'assalyanizim' stand for???

Well Sparky you asked:
but first
IF YOU WOULD LOOK AGEIN IT HAD JUST SPAWND SO IT DID CONTRIBUT TO THE NEXT GENERATION OF FISH!

BOB PLEASE DONT BAN ME!

ASSALYANIZIM
is in short liberals!

its when you get YOUR eyes and your a@* mixed together, and have a brown out look on life. and blame every one else for YOUR stupidity insted of looking at your self first and thinking your allwas rite.

Ive been known to have this but not as much as many Ive seen lately.

So are you telling me that you killed that fish to have a skin mount so that you could prove that you caught a spawned out steelhead???

I must say...that is a first!

Azz .. Tom wouldn't have been able to tell from just looking at the fish how many times it's spawned. Scales must be examined (with the use of a microscope) to count the annuli and from there a life history can be gathered.

Perhaps you misunderstood what he meant ... sounds like he likely figured it was a 3 salt fish, meaning that it had spent three years at sea, and would likely be an educated guess from the size of the fish and a little experience at checking

See Their it is ASSALYANIZIM
you dont know much about mounts do ya?
all skin fish mounts are air brushed on because if ou cure the skin right it bleaches out .
thats why many people dont like their mounts because they where done wrong.
so it will look just like the nice crome fish I let go last year wich was on the sol duc and was my first.

If you are going to have the taxidermist doctor up the fish for you then what are you proving??...and if you are having the fish doctored up to that extent then why not get a replica???...your logic is so far beyond off-base, I have no idea why I am even arguing with you....plus as the evening moves on you make less and less sense.

And if the taxidermist is going to doctor up the fish's color...are you going to have him remove the sunken belly?...clean up the fins so they dont look so beat up??...etc. etc.???

Bob
We did send in the scale samples and thats the come back I got. and yes you are correct I did miss understand him at that time but she had someother defects like Three hooks down her throught when I cought her that where cut off from some one else. she hapend to be the same as the one I cought last year. and was also bleeding perfusly from her ass thats how why we thought that she was atlest that old. I woul like to chat with you some time if we could if you would email me and let me know what would be best thanks.
assy.

dud
WHY ARE YOU ?
READ MY POST
I EXPLAINED IT!


AGEIN!

ASSALYANIZIM ITS A CURSE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Booze, ignorance and posting just dont mix!!!

This discussion is over!

Booze, ignorance and posting just dont mix!!!

This discussion is over!


SUFERING FROM ASSALYANIZIM,LEFTY THOUGHTS AND POSTING DONT ETHER!

KNOW AIT WE BOTH CANTENT!!!!!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="verdana,arial,helv">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv"> Booze, ignorance and posting just dont mix!!!

This discussion is over!

We love you any way but...
Please re-examine your avoidance of natural skin mounts.
Too much mounting of those replicas might deflate your libido.

When is that automatic spell check going to be put into effect. I know I don't spell everything right, but holy cow. Kinda hard to take anything seriously when people have trouble spelling simple words.

The one thing I was able to discern from assy's garbled posts was that he is not a liberal. Thank God. You conservatives can use him for your poster boy.

Hey surecatch why are you thanking god?
I thought you liberals worshiped buddha, crystals and stuff like that!

I dont think there is anything wrong with skin mounting a 3rd year spawned out spawner that was bleeding and wouldnt have lived anyways! Theres going to be plenty more fish in the river dying to feed the crawdads.

fiberglass reproductions are fine too but allow for dishonest representation of the fish.


This is just a poor quick example of what I could do to fake a fish. Thats actually bobs fish.

My comments had nothing to do with his decision to mount his fish. I was making reference to his lack of logic, awful spelling, unique grammar etc.

Do you really think that only conservatives could possibly worship God? Too funny.