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#193799 - 04/09/03 08:17 PM Poll: Are you an ethical fisherman?
STIHLHEAD Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 368
Loc: W. WA
... if you follow all the fishing rules and regulations.
_________________________
I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it. Thomas Jefferson.

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#193800 - 04/09/03 08:48 PM Re: Poll: Are you an ethical fisherman?
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13518
So far I'm the only no vote. Perhaps I can persuade others. Following the fishing rules and regulations makes me a legal angler, not necessarily an ethical one. Why? Because ethics are relative. That is, we all don't share the same ethics. For example, some of the BB members think it's unethical to kill a native steelhead while others believe it's ethical if the fishing regulations allow it. See? Different ethics. It seems to me that a lot of misunderstanding occurs in this world because so many people believe there is only one ethic - theirs! While simple, that just isn't how it works.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

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#193801 - 04/09/03 09:39 PM Re: Poll: Are you an ethical fisherman?
B-RUN STEELY Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 02/08/00
Posts: 3233
Loc: IDAHO
Good answer Salmo.
_________________________
Clearwater/Salmon Super Freak

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#193802 - 04/09/03 09:50 PM Re: Poll: Are you an ethical fisherman?
bri24 Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 02/11/03
Posts: 283
Loc: Renton, WA
Well put salmo. thumbs
_________________________
I've got a Shotgun,a rifle and a 4-wheel drive and a country boy can survive. - HANK WILLIAMS JR

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#193803 - 04/09/03 10:06 PM Re: Poll: Are you an ethical fisherman?
AP a.k.a. Kaiser D Offline
Hippie

Registered: 01/31/02
Posts: 4450
Loc: B'ham
The 40% that say they are unethical sure are honest. rolleyes

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#193804 - 04/09/03 10:07 PM Re: Poll: Are you an ethical fisherman?
chaser Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 408
Loc: marysville,wa
I'm with Salmo what

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#193805 - 04/09/03 10:10 PM Re: Poll: Are you an ethical fisherman?
Bob Offline

Dazed and Confused

Registered: 03/05/99
Posts: 6367
Loc: Forks, WA & Soldotna, AK
I'll bite and say "Yes". To Salmo's response, I'll agree and disagree.

You're right on with the mention of following the rules and the varied views of "ethics" .... BUT, I think there are some basic principles of ethical fisherman that we can all agree upon.

First and foremost is a concern for the resource. This doesn't mean wild steelhead release wink That means:

Regardless of rules and regs, an individual angler realizes his impacts and works to limit them within reason.

What does that mean? An example would be the use of divers and bait for steelhead that I wish to release. The law says I can do, but knowing that a number of fish that I'd release would die means that I choose not to use them as it's wasteful. Another example of this is our policy of NO RELEASE on our silver fishing in AK. It costs us some trips, but it's well documented that these estuarine silvers with bait suffer mortalities of about 70% ... we're not gonna sit there and throw back dead fish after dead fish.

An ethical angler also respects the habitat. That means you don't toss your garbage into the river, or pouring your used oil into the river. Another example might be dragging your anchor through beds to slow you down while fishing the deeper water on the other side of the river. While some might argue that this is open to the "opinion" that Salmo refers to, I don't think so. Any angler who knowingly disregards their impacts on established beds is not ethical in my eyes, and I don't think many would argue that point.

Wasting your catch is probably the most obvious eaxmple I could refer to. regardless of an individual's feelings on what should be released, or how you should fish ... I think just about everyone would agree that wanton waste is wrong.


As far as following rules, I don't think there's anyone out there that can honestly say they've never broken a rule at one point or another. We've probably all forgotten a license somewhere at one time or another or fogotten to pich a barb ... but I think it comes come to intent there. If you say "oh I'll take my chances on buying a license for the season" or "it won't hurt to take a few extra fish" ... I think most will agree that that falls into another category. It boils down to intent with "ethics".

I'm sure I could add a few more, but I think most will get my point ...
_________________________
Seen ... on a drive to Stam's house:



"You CANNOT fix stupid!"

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#193806 - 04/09/03 10:53 PM Re: Poll: Are you an ethical fisherman?
CWUgirl Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 367
Loc: Seattle, WA
The problem with the question is as others have said, its relative. It's about has profound as asking "are you a good person." Without applying a standard- which the question does not, there is no objective way to measure how ethical or unethical you are. The reality and "feeling" of the question are two different things entirely.
_________________________
"If fishing is like religion, then flyfishing is high church." -Tom Brokaw

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#193807 - 04/09/03 11:37 PM Re: Poll: Are you an ethical fisherman?
STIHLHEAD Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 368
Loc: W. WA
It is a very simple question. It is "Applying a standard" which is obeying the fishing laws and "relative" to a person who doesn't obey the law.

May be I should have asked: If someone is obeying the fishing laws do you consider him to be an ethical fisherman. I assumed you would understand what I meant wink
_________________________
I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it. Thomas Jefferson.

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#193808 - 04/10/03 12:58 AM Re: Poll: Are you an ethical fisherman?
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13518
Sthilhead,

Uhm, I guess I'm not quite getting across. I might think an angler who follows the regulations is nonetheless unethical because he kills native steelhead, which I might choose to regard as unethical, and he may choose to regard as ethical. Asking if something is ethical is about the same as asking if something is moral. Different people, particularly of different religions, for example, occasionally have differing moral and or other values. You and I may share some ethical values and not others. So whether I think what someone else does is ethical or not only indicates whether it's ethical according to my values and not the other person's. That's why I think a question like this isn't relevant - because ethical values are relative.

Bob used some examples of ethical values that he thinks most of us might agree to. I agree that most of us probably would. However, I know and have known individuals who had no ethical problem whatever in not observing certain selective fish and game regulations. I grew up in south county and had neighbors who observed the code of the hills - that was their ethics.

So while your question was simple, a simple answer just doesn't have much relevance.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

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#193809 - 04/10/03 01:35 AM Re: Poll: Are you an ethical fisherman?
starcraft tom Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 424
Loc: marysville
haveing been around and in other cultures and haveing just completed a class on bio medical ethics I will tell you this. Ethic can not be dictated by laws only by the level of punsihment. flog
_________________________
Thomas J Elliott
Veterans Realty Services.
1-425-220-6567

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#193810 - 04/10/03 01:47 AM Re: Poll: Are you an ethical fisherman?
CWUgirl Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 367
Loc: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Originally posted by STIHLHEAD:
It is a very simple question. It is "Applying a standard" which is obeying the fishing laws and "relative" to a person who doesn't obey the law.

May be I should have asked: If someone is obeying the fishing laws do you consider him to be an ethical fisherman. I assumed you would understand what I meant wink
Easy to answer. Law and ethics are NOT the same thing at all. Being legalistic as your ethical blueprint for life.....well, not my idea of a thought out personal philosophy or philosophy on the ethics of fishing.
_________________________
"If fishing is like religion, then flyfishing is high church." -Tom Brokaw

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#193811 - 04/10/03 03:43 AM Re: Poll: Are you an ethical fisherman?
STIHLHEAD Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 368
Loc: W. WA
Quote:
Law and ethics are NOT the same thing at all.
That is interesting! eek Our laws amongst other thing reflect our values, ethics, etc. It is still a VERY simple question.
_________________________
I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it. Thomas Jefferson.

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#193812 - 04/10/03 06:51 AM Re: Poll: Are you an ethical fisherman?
ParaLeaks Offline
WINNER

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10363
Loc: Olypen
"Do you understand?" is another example of a simple question that has no meaning.....It's like asking, "Are you lying?"......no matter what the answer returned, you have no more than what you started out with.

Another more appropriate one..."best available science".....implies that what was being used prior to this pop culture term was intentionally "not the best".

Many politicians rely on these ambiguities and oxymorons...kind of a "best available political science", so to speak. beer beer
_________________________
Agendas kill truth.
If it's a crop, plant it.




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#193813 - 04/10/03 10:42 AM Re: Poll: Are you an ethical fisherman?
Duck In The Fog Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/02/99
Posts: 453
Loc: Yakima Wa. U.S.A.
Why was this poll made anyway? Someone has too much time on there hands. The Duck

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#193814 - 04/10/03 10:58 AM Re: Poll: Are you an ethical fisherman?
Northwest Custom Rods Offline
Alevin

Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 11
Loc: Auburn, WA
If I had to make a guess at agenda for the poll. It would that he was trying to point out that; just because you abide by the law, that does not make you an ethical Angler (based on his ethics anyway)

That would be my guess...

Salmo G got it right.
_________________________
Northwest Custom Rods
Auburn, WA
(253) 709-1848
nwcustomrods@hotmail.com
http://www.northwestcustomrods.com

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#193815 - 04/10/03 01:10 PM Re: Poll: Are you an ethical fisherman?
Skywalker Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/10/01
Posts: 570
Loc: Snohomish, WA, USA
I'm not voting.....

You CAN be an ethical fisherman that follows all the rules and regs. There is no reg. that requires you to keep your limit of nates, for instance. If you can, but you choose not to, you're still following the regs, just not taking them to their legal limit...or am I missing something here.

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#193816 - 04/10/03 02:42 PM Re: Poll: Are you an ethical fisherman?
micropterus101 Offline
Spawner

Registered: 01/03/03
Posts: 802
Loc: Port Orchard
Ethical? Not ethical? Thats a question definetly related to Einsteins theory of relativity. Ethnicity has alot to do with how other people view your fishing practices. A fly fishermen may take exception to a bait chucker saying it is ethical to use bait. My great granpa would probably ask what the hell do ethics have to do with fishing. I would say I am unethical because I dont seem to go with the status quo when it comes to fitting in with other fishermens Idea of ethics.

This does in know way mean I throw trash around and bonk everything I catch.

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#193817 - 04/10/03 03:24 PM Re: Poll: Are you an ethical fisherman?
4Salt Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/07/00
Posts: 2955
Loc: Lynnwood, WA
Quote:
Ethical? Not ethical? Thats a question definetly related to Einsteins theory of relativity.
Which part Micro? Do you mean the closer to the speed of light we angler's travel, the more subjective our personal code of ethics becomes to those affected by gravity? Perhaps those who release wild steelhead occupy the singularity, while those that harvest reside at the event horizon? :p wink laugh

Quote:
Ethnicity has alot to do with how other people view your fishing practices.
That is a VERY true statement. Russians and Asians (at least the one's who fish the Columbia river below Bonneville dam) DEFINITELY seem to view my practices with much bewilderment when I release a shad! wink laugh laugh

p.s. I'm just ribbin' ya a little. smile
_________________________
A day late and a dollar short...

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#193818 - 04/10/03 04:59 PM Re: Poll: Are you an ethical fisherman?
micropterus101 Offline
Spawner

Registered: 01/03/03
Posts: 802
Loc: Port Orchard
I think I have sat at this picture box to long today 4salt you actually made me laugh.
What you said about the columbia R. is so true! I love the looks I get releasing shad,and the soon after questions (Give me, I keep? I keep?) and my answer NO I LET GO! CATCH YOUR OWN!

laugh

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