Sounds like Bush is ready to conquer, er liberate another country. Why not, were in the neighborhood.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=st...40&ncid=716

Let's get Syria'ous'.....

Yeah lets let some more American GIs die liberating another country that does,nt want anything to do with our way of life.

we've been fighting Syria all along. At least the Syrians coming to Iraq for Jihad anyway.

we might as well clean up Syria and Iran while we are already in the neighborhood. we have all our gear locked and loaded right next door. that way we wont have to go back in another 12 years.

Seems to me that the way those Iragi's were tearing down statues and riding on the head of Saddam all around town that they were preety dam glad we were there, dam, I went this long without posting about a NFR issue and I get sucked in.

NEN

That's a silly argument....What about Lebannon, Libya, Egypt, Algeria, Nigeria, Sudan......And Al-Qaeda is suspected of having training grounds in Somalia, Eritrea, Djibouti, Kenya and Ethiopia.....And there are East Asian countries, specifically Indonesia which also may have terrorist links. Where do we stop?

A victorous little war, much like the Spanish-American war is one thing... but how far do we take it before....hopefully before we've made enemies with the whole world.

Syria has always been a problem in the whole Israel issue. They back Palestine but do not allow the Palestine's to move into their country. This does not allow the palatines anywhere to go so they keep pushing on Israel, all of which just keeps the terror process going. But now that the pres. and company have had the fore thought and wisdom to show the Arab people (not to be confused with the Arab leaders) that they can have freedom from murder and oppressive governments, those same governments are getting a little nervous about now and are going to be more willing to play ball and give us the cooperation we want in the Israeli Palestine peace issues. The Arab league has already been on TV. telling the world that the people of Iraqi did not want saddam gone. Looks like they are really missing the a-hole to me.
If none of you have notice north Korea is pissing them selves trying to get to the table with us on the nuclear issue. This is the complete oppocent of what the peace crowd said would happen. They said that if we went against Iraqi then Korea would play hardball. Well Korea and Syria and Iran all see that we are not to be messed with. Sounds easy and it is. Peace thru force, it worked against the Russians and it will work against these others. The peace activists have always been wrong on this and they continue to be wrong on how to project the will of the U.S. I little side note , the average age in Iran is 28 yrs old. Read the National Geographic story from this last year about the youth of Iran and how they can't wait to brake free from the religious control of the ayatollahs and copy they free enterprise style of the U.S.A. Tom

um, yeah, we wouldnt want to go off and offend someone, we might upset some crazed dictator...it seems to me that all these arab countries already hate the USA and will hate us no matter what we do, whether or not we hurt their feelings.

when do we stop? when Al-Qaeda has been completely exterminated, thats when.

posted 04-11-2003 04:32 PM
http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=013101

...seemed more relevant in this conversation because not even two days later we are seeing the anti-Syria rhetoric heat up in the press...

"As usual I have an alternate, somewhat conspiratorial view of where this new american foreign policy is heading...

The core issue between Arabs and the west is western imperialism. Since the Brits left Iraq the last bastion of western imperialism, at least in the Arab view, is Israel. Hard to blame them really...I imagine the same kind of feelings might be generated here if say the Kurds were awarded part of Colorado as some sort of reparations for the atrocities committed at the hands of Saddam. A bad comparison admittedly, but one worth making because it helps explains the Arab view.

Oil is the big Red Herring. Believe me, I think the Bush administration is comfortable with the general population thinking this about oil...or anything else that isn't the truth. Technically they would not be lying that way....

...because the truth is that ultimately this a battle for Arab or western control of Jerusalem and the other Muslim/Christian holy lands. We are now reinforcing our position in the region militarily, if you put yourself in the shoes of an Arab you can see how this creates legitimate fear of further invasions by westerners. So then, can we legitimately expect that Iran or Syria, especially Syria, are next?? Haven't you already heard the rumblings?? Syria are a state that supports Hezbollah (Palestinian terrorists)...intimations that Iraq's WMD were smuggled into Syria during our conflict with Iraq...its all there, remember though that before the conflict with Iraq you would not hear these type of things from the US government.

I'm no nostradamus but I predict that in the very, very near future such rhetoric against the Syrian government is going to heat up big time. IMO, this ultimately good for US 'interest' in the region but bad for our national security."

Now...here's a list of reasons to invade and conquer Syria next...

1. 'Intelligence reports suggest' they have Iraq's WMD...

2. They support terrorist organizations...

3. 'Agents of the Syrian government' (aka, Syrian mercenaries) killed during 'Iraqi Freedom'...

Sound familiar?

Which UN resolution will the United Sates be waving over its head when it invades Syria? Oh...that's right...the rest of the world doesn't need to approve such actions.

Does any one seriously wonder why the Arabs harbor ill will against the West?

It isn't about crazed dictators.... We are losing touch with reality in that we cannot act as an independent police force...We live in an interdependent world. If we loose the support of Western Europe, China (2nd largest economy).... who exactly are we going to trade with?

Right now we're spending money on this war like its going out of style. We cannot financially go on country to country without a real coalition (the UN) without going broke.

Ohh an Al-Qaeda's irradication is your goal?? Well geez, we should have just invaded Saudi Araba in the first place- that's where the funding came from afterall!!! And lets not forget that's were most 9/11 terrorists were from as well......

Wouldn't it be nice if they were just like us?

Heck... I just wanna retire... Three too many conflicts for me already! I darn sure don't get paid enough as it is...

Personally, we better watch North Korea and China. It is getting uglier by the minute!

Downriggin'

instead of WMD.... maybe we should refer to these weapons as the "hot potato"

I bet syria will be a targert next if not colombia. colombia will be a conversation regarding "narco-terrorists". I can tell ya now ahead of time ... start reading up on these two countries if you want to stay one step ahead of the propaganda machine. Syria does not have as much to offer us or scare us with other than the "hot potato" arguement. but Colombia is both a major oil exporter and a major cocaine exporter and cocaine is how "black ops" are paid for (other than olie north's traitorouse ass). that is not crazy conspiratorial spew. I speak fluent spanish and worked for the jalisco mob(in puerto vallarta) for about a year when I was 21. I only rented sail boats for them but I can tell you absolutely true stories about the CIA and DEA coming to make "pickups" and how we would be warned ahead of time and how we would watch millions of dollars of cocaine unloaded from 55 foot luxury sailboats in the middle of the day and carried down the dock in duffle bags with radio receivers. those were eye opening times for a 21 year old .

now here comes the conspiraacy part cuz i have no first hand knowledge here but many CIA officers say that jeb and george and bill clinton(when gov of arkansas) were all part of the same ring that imported coke in "organ transplant " carriers in to meany airfield in arkansas. the factual side I do know of ,is that all three have dozens of photos of them taken with their arms around well known top drug kingpins. and of course the clinton late night pardons speak volumes


i would say syria then colombia.

chappy,

Didn't they tell you not to speak of such things?

DanS, speaking from experience again.



Now he has to kill us....

Chappy, your posts are getting more amusing by the day. Thanks for the good laughs, seriously.

I think Syria is definately next, not only are Iraq's WMD stashed there, so are many high ranking Baath Party members, and of course, terrorists! Then Libya because it's located in between Syria and Iran, and there is certain to be terrorists in that country. Then Iran because Iranians are actually in favor of a democratic/capitalistic system. Then Cuba because our political system is way better than theirs?......where do we stop?

We want no part of N. Korea, I can tell you that. Not only do they expect the US to attack, they are welcoming the opportunity. There is no bigger hater of America than N. Korea. Diplomacy (remember that word?) is the solution with fanatical country.

Here is my question:

The last time a president named Bush went to the Middle East to do some Saddamizing (for a much more noble cause in most Americans view; Saddam was beating up a smaller country that time) he was soundly defeated the next election by an unknown, slick-talking gov. from Arkansas. What happens if/when the Democrats regain control of the White House, the "hawks" are sent flying, and US foreign policy does another about-face, again.

Doesn't foreign policy, much like fish management, require some consistency to be effective?

Basically we are in unchartered territory here folks, it will be more than interesting to see the long term results of this period of "liberation".

Ike

Wow!!!!!

I don't know who is next but I know stldh20(sp) and chappy are wasting their talent on Bob's p.p. fishing board. That kind of stuff sells for big bucks on television!

Conquer the Holy Lands ....(save em from the Arabs) finance it with drug money from sailboats, and throw in a Marine colonel who is a traitorous *******! That Is Sweeps stuff boys!

Hot dam! Whens the next episode?

herm

I like how you jump in to make fun of our opinions herm without expressing your own.

So where does the US take its new foreign policy, herm?

Whatever country has the better fishing possibilities should be next!

Actually, I think the Syria thing is all about posturing. Hell, were right next door, just kicked the crap out of Iraq, and our military is all warmed up. What better time to send a warning. I dont think we'll actually make a left turn, just kinda looking over our shoulder that direction. Some of the other theories are pretty interesting though. We could come up with a seasons worth of 24 episodes with the last few weeks worth of topics!

Has Libya moved since the last time I looked at a map?

Might as well hit the USA too while we're at it cause thats where they train the pilots.

syria has no oil so bush wouldnt go in there his oil is in usa/iraq

dan s.- all they did was pay me and get me working papers. other than that, i had no personal involvement in anything illegal. I dont car if you dont believe me. but i would not discount too much what i am saying about colombia... do you know how many marines we have there right now? conpiracy theory reeking... or not... you will se an increased military involvement in colombia and probably before syria.
the owner of a guatemalan farm (michael devine.... look it up on the net if you want) that i stayed on had his head cut off by a guatemalan military captain that cannot be charged for the crime cuz he is a paid CIA officer. there is another crazy entertaining one for you to laugh at.... but look it up and you will see that it is real and i am serious. .

if you want a real laugh... prove this statement to be untrue(you cant)--- the us has helped to finance, arm and train the overthrow of more than 20 latin american democracy's and replace those elected governments with dictatorships. this lead to more than 200,000 dead in chile, more than 300,000 missing in argentina. more than 100,000 dead in el salvador. more than 300,000 dead in guatemala. we put noriega in power in panama who then killed tens of thousands and then we killed a couple of thousand more taking him out of power. more than 100,000 deaths due to our support of somoza in nicaragua.
we have a "monroe doctrine"- that declares the entire western hemisphere to be under US military and economic control.--- now thats funny.


here is a very funny question- if we are against terrorism... why are we still arming,trainig and financing terrorists at the "school of americas" in georgia?

this is a terrorist training camp for latin american armies to learn torcher, abduction and many other great tecniques that latter get employed against tourists. ( I met a man from twisp who went to guatemala city to start a fly tying business... he got kidnapped his first day in the city)
we dont get this on our news but the rest of the world does!
its called hypocricy! and the rest of the world is on to it. you can sit back and think that i am a conspiracy freak but I have been there and seen it and lived it. thats what changed me from a lil frat boy geek at 20 years old to someone with open eyes taking a real look at what is going on.

now if you want to hear one you really wont believe. my girlgriend at the time took care of richard burton and liz tailors house in gringo gulch on the hill over puerto vallarta. one day a mexican lesbian and her white girlfriend that lived there got into a fight that turned into a rock fight. I swear those lesbians can huck rocks. they were breaking windows left and right and rocks were flying thru $10,000 paintings and other art. the police came and everything and took the mexi-lez off to jail. I never thought two lesbians could make such a nice place look like one of sadamm's palaces so fast. -- i gotta actually do a little work now- later

Lezbos throwing rocks at each other??? What does that have to do with Syria or Columbia???
Like some one else mentioned above would make a great Fox special.

chappy,

I don't doubt it at all.......I just know if it was me, I wouldn't talk about it. "Things" have been known to happen when you talk about what certain gov't agencies are up to.

When did Libya move? I always thought it was one of them north African countries?

i know what ya mean dan.- this was ten years ago though and i did nothing but sell sailboat trips to tourists. I was actually selling time share before that and i can tell you THAT was dirty dirty work.
not sure who wrote about lez's not having to do with syria of colombia-- but who cares ... what do syria or colombia have to do with fishing? it was just a funny story that i saw down there. arnt we all just talking here? are we not supose to have any humor? i allways tell jokes while i fish. here is one of my favorites---- if a midget was gay... would he come out of the cupboard?

sthldh2o,
In response to your? I'm not aware of a new U.S. agenda. While I am now, and have been all along, unhappy about the loss of life, of (coalition) troops, and the destruction of Iraq, and the 10s of thousands of Iraqi lives lost, in a conflict that I feel could have been handled by a small number of specialists and a few well placed projectiles.

I think that Pres. Bush is a good man in a job that requires a man with more guile and deceitfulness(not sure thats a word). I suspect that he had, what he thought was good info., that saddam had WMD and was supporting terroist, and in the heat of trying to do the job that he promised to do after 9/11 (hunt down and kill terroists wherever they were and punish the people and governments who gave them shelter) and still look like he was trying to save the world, he said some things that put him in a spot he didn't know how to back out of. He got low holed by some people.

The U.S. is too concerned with trying to look like we are doing things for the good of everybody, when IMHO, we should do what is good for the U.S. and let the rest of the world do what is good for them. I think saddam out of power is good for the U.S. I think that the fact that the Iraqi people are out from under saddam is a nice bi-product.

There was never any ? about the outcome of the war militarily, and I don't think anybody thought we were gonna make a lot of new Arab friends. They do not like us! So if we have to live with them, what do we do?

I don't want to invade Syria, but I think that telling them to shape up or else is a good idea, if they are threatening our way of life.

But I think we should be up front and out in the open with our intentions, if you mess with us or ours you WILL pay the price.

I don't feel one little bit safer now than I did before we invaded Iraq, but I don't want to set here and wait for another 9/11 either.

You may be right with your theory, I don't think so. I think Pres. Bush is trying to do a job that might not be possible to do, but he is trying to do it.

Does this tell you where I'm at?


herm

Humor me for an instant, fantasize that he is honest and does not have a hidden agenda. Pretend he is trying to make America a safer place.


What would you have him do?
How would you have him do it?
(don't forget about all the people that think he's doing it wrong, or all of the people who have their own agendas)
Keep in mind all the people who are gonna die!
Don't forget if you don't get re-elected, no matter what you do or have done will not be finished.
Keep in mind the economy is in the ****ter.

Well Pres. sthld2o?

President Bush's agenda, this New American Foreign Policy is not hidden, per se. Its my feeling that the full repercussions of the policy are lost on the general American public.

Using our invasion of Iraq as blueprint for democratizing the middle east is implicit in the document the White House uses to outline US foreign policy (the name of which document escapes me at the moment but I'll tryto edit in a link when I find it)...

I'm all for forwarding the agenda of democracy throughout the world...but not at the barrel of a gun.

Three highly esteemed, right of center advisors to the President advised against military action right up to the moment the bombs fell in Baghdad. Two of them were wearing at least four stars (how unamerican of them )

My ears would have been canted in that direction instead of in the direction of the Rumsfield's and the Wolfowitz's.

The conspiratorial part I am referencing is where this conversation gets tricky for me. I outlined the gist of it above and I think I'll leave it that, except to say that George Bush is a man driven by his faith in Christianity. Not necessarily a bad thing in and of itself but in the context of military action in the Middle East this sounds like a very, very bad combination for peace in today's post 9/11 world.

Thanks for not going off the handle on me there, herm. I knew you had important stuff to add to this conversation...

Bush Doctrine is probably what you're talking about....

Here it is.....

http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/nss.html

Got that Frontline link in your favorites do you CWUgirl?

Ya...well.....maybe!! <img border="0" alt="[wall]" title="" src="graemlins/wall.gif" />

Just have a lot of researching links.. that's all!

Al-Jazeera is also the station that broadcasted the information from bagdad bob about "there are no US troops in bagdad we slottered them at the gate" just thought I would point out the fact dont place too much trust in there reporting practices.....

Here's what I think should be done in Syria..Ive been to the gulf a few times and faught in the first gulf war....

1. keep the pressure on for a while even mass the troops would help

2. take all the info we have on syria's WMD's and all the names of the of the war criminals they are hiding to the ARAB league and explane to them that they need to do the clean up or we well...also point out that if the war criminals keep moving into lybia they well be next....just make the stand that OUR war on terrorism is wide reaching and we ar not worried about anyone's point of view

why do we need info on syria's WMD? they are allowed to have them legally just as wee are allowed to have them legally. 2 out of the 3 largest terrorist acts commited against americans were commited by americans. the anthrax that was sent to democrats and media only came from our own military bio-wepons labs. timothy Mcveigh learned to do his evil deeds in the US military. that is not conspiracy theory. that is just fact. we need WMD out of umatilla more than we need WMD out of syria. umatilla is alot closer to everyone on this board than syria? why dont we lead by example and get rid of our own (we have more chem and bio WMD than the whole rest of the world combined) can anyone come up with one good reason to have these at all? it isnt like our military sucks and has no technology! between the (LIBERAL) 2nd ammendment to the constitution that gives us the right to privately bare arms.... and the $400 billion defense budget.... who in the world is going to invade us? i would feel just as safe without those WMD stockpiled along the colombia river... in fact i might even feel safer!

i guess its the " if you dont like the world... start with changing the man you see in the mirror" approach

I know I have already said way to much on this post, however....

sthldh2o,
You asked me a direct question and I respectfully attempted to give you a direct and honest answer. I lack communication skills but I attempted to relay to you my position on this issue and also my feelings and opinions on the Iraqi war. Also expressed what I thought might have been a better solution. It might not be but, I at least offered a differant approach.
I asked you a direct question;
What would you have the man do?
Not what he shouldn"t do, that is low holing! IMHO.
We as Americans have a very serious problem, (way more than I can list) but lets just stick to the terriorist problem.
The Pres. made a decision to remove saddam. Maybe it was wrong. He made a decision, he acted, he got results, maybe good, maybe bad, he did something rather then wait for the smoking gun. The easy part is to criticize. The constructive part is to offer a better solution. Let's hear yours! I've already heard what's wrong with the things he is doing. I want to hear what sthlhdh2o would do to make things better, not what he wouldn't do.


herm

You asked several questions in your post, herm. In your hypothetical I am the President. Were that the case we would not have gone to war the way and time we did, potentially changing the entire political landscape under which an eventual war with Iraq would have been fought, if necessary.

It is precisely because I would not have made the same decision as the President in the first place that I chose to answer your question as I did.

The President is following his doctrine in the Middle East. If I was the President and I wrote a doctrine I would probably follow it as closely to the letter as possible....that said, my 'doctrine' would look a lot different if I were President so I would be acting with an entirely different set of priorities.

That's about as far I'll go with your 'if I was the Pres' question....no one denies that it is likely the most difficult job on the planet. Just because the job is tough though, does not insulate the President from criticsm. Nor does it make those that would criticise 'anti-american'.

On lighter note...if you think Bill Clinton was excellent fodder for the press you can only imagine how 'ol h2o's presidency would go down in history.......

The Death Metal president

I'd wear my Cannibal Corpse t-shirt to all diplomatic functions...

Instead of retreating to Camp David for some R & R I would hit the road with my band for some R & R...

You think Bubba had groupie sex in the White House....you ain't seen nothin' yet....

I would do my Keith Richards impression for all interviews and press conferences ...

The New drug Czar?
Ozzy...Ozzzy...Ozzy...Ozzy...Ozzy.

During the State of the Union Address when everyone started to cheer... instead of waiting patiently for the applause to die down I'd work the crowd...left side....right said...left side...right side....everyone now 'Scream for me Disrict of Columbia!!!!!!!

Good call...

I hope you've also noticed that you have not seen one such comment from me since the time the first shots in the war were fired.

I said I thought I was doing a pretty good job at keeping my comments within the scope of reason...not that I have a perfect track record of doing so.

Just so there is NO misunderstanding, I have NEVER refered to anyone on this board as ANTI-AMERICAN!

Your response to the posed inquiries while eloquant and humorous, only restated your former stand that Pres. Bush is wrong..

I have not yet, heard one thing from you, that even gets close to telling me what you would do about the terrorist, homeland security, etc. only thing I hear from you is what the Pres. has done wrong, I,m not convinced t-shirts and heavy-metal bands in the whitehouse is a legitimate answer to the problem. However it might be a start.

FINI
herm

homeland security go and buy a case of duct tape