4Salt,,

I see where there are 208 harvested cougars on that spread sheet and 23 depradation and 21 safety removals.

I just reviewed the document from Dave Britteil Asst Director of the WDFW December 9 1996 about the request from the House Natural Resource Committe for an assessment of the impacts of I-655

It clearly states in there the harvest reports from the cougar "permit" season to be 283 cougars harvested for 1995. They issued 446 permits for an 81% success rate.
Now they basically give away the cougar permit for like, 5 dollars. This is to get everyone out in the woods to be shooting at cougars in hopes they will keep harvests #'s up.

I have the economy impacts that was presented to the committee, they are in the millions for bear and cougar.
I also have revenue numbers that were lost due in fact to the I-655 and also expendatures that were incurred by the WDFW post I-655 (which measure in the millions each year)
I have a harvest data report that goes back prior to the bounty (1935)
I even have a chart that shows in 1995 that there were 10 problem cougars killed by WDFW (that number has sure increased)
Matter of fact we had a revenues for just the cougar that was close to 600,000 and post I-655 WDFW reports an expendature of 1.3 million.. Wouldnt you like seeing that 1.3 million a year going somewhere else?

This is a hard copy report in front of me. I would be more than happy to make copies of it and snail mail it to you!

ET,

I think we're a little off-track here. My main point was to dispute Driftboater's claim that a dramatic increase in the number of cougar/bear attacks have taken place since the passing of I-655.

The neighbor's dog has threatened your children. You have witnessed this first-hand. I agree completely that some measures should be taken in your case.

My dog example was merely that, an example. I could have used the comparison that many more children are killed in household accidents, traffic accidents, by bicycles etc...

ALL I was trying to do was dispell some of the fear and paranoia of being injured or killed by a cougar, and provide a counterpoint to the use of that fear to re-instate what could be considered an un-sporting method of hunting them.

Driftboater - I have NO opposition to hunter's keeping the cougar population in check. I was merely disputing your claim that the reason the fisherman on the Kalama was attacked is because we don't hunt them anymore with hounds. That's it!

4salt, how is the use of hounds unsporting? Cougars, etc, still get away often times.

Is bird hunting with dogs any less "unsporting?" Obviously they give the hunter much more of an advantage over the bird. Maybe just pointers? After all, a hunter can often times almost step on birds that are pointed.

In both cases dogs can be harmed by their prey or during the hunt itself. I personally know of a brittany that lost an eye due to a rooster pheasant.

There is no difference, IMO. Hound hunting is sporting and should be allowed for preditor control.

I have heard that term used many times by Animal Rights groups that are trying to paint an unclear picture to the media about certain practices.
Reminds me of a quote by Wayne Pacelle of Fund for Animals (now president of HSUS, they same group WT loves so much and endorses)

"I personally oppose fishing" a hooked fish feels pain equivalent to "...... a human having his hand impaled and being jerked off the ground by a hook"

Pretty obsured! huh! Just like your take on my way be "un-Sporting"
I take it you have never been on a hound hunt and have only read and saw one sided campaign footage!

Thats a good one Sky Guy!

Glad you enjoyed those stories. I have many many more that I have saved over the years just for instances like this

Man! You folks are tryin' to "tree me like a cat!"

Operative word: COULD

NOWHERE does it say "I"

No, I haven't been on a hound hunt, and CWU girl, we weren't discussing "predator control" hunts. We were talkin' about the guy on the Kalama. For predator removal/problem animal hunts, the most expiditious method should be used. In the case of cougars, if that means hounds, go for it!

Driftboater - Them PETA types sure got yer dander up, don't they. Everything appears to be an animal-rights issue to you. I've got NOTHING against hunting, and lord knows I love to fish. I've also got to get some work done today, so maybe you could go and argue this with chappy on the hunting board.

Well what made ya think that I have had three things taken from me. Hound hunting, bear baiting,and trapping.
I sure hope that if you have something taken from you you will stand up and be heard.

You are correct in your statement about "could" and "I" but it has (not by you) been portrayed that way.
i admit I played a little dirty there, but I am just using this platform as tool to hopefully teach other user groups about what we are facing with these AR groups.

Ohh, I will just leave that one alone. It is pretty quite over there. I think I have scared him and BBVD away. Oh well

Get your work done! and I appreciate our discussions today I think we both learned a thing or two.

Thank You

its easy.... bring back the wolf! its easier and better than rednecks trying to play god. most of the rednecks ive met couldnt manage a 7-11 let alone an ecosystem..... if a cougar wants to try and steal my springer, he has a fight in store for him. especially since my wolf hybrid fishes the kalama with me.
Ive had cougars attack my rabbits before and i was chased by a mother bear when i was in 7th grade. even still, i wouldnt want to eliminate them from our forests or put renecks in charge of controling them.

All I CAN Say Is I Hate Anti's .Like You Chappy You LIER'S. I'm Just Tired Of The LIE'S. Rick. Former Bear Baiter . Redneck .

all this talk about cougars has got me hungry i think i'll go pull a nice lean tasty cougar steak out of the freezer tomorrow night its bbq bear burgers weather permitting of course

Who said rednecks were going to be in charge of controlling bears or cougars?? My word, that sounds horrible!! Who would think of such a thing??

It is my understanding that its the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife is in charge of controlling preditor and prey species. They set the limits every year, the methods that can be employed to hunt.... not the rednecks.

And no one here has said they want to eliminate cougars or bears. However, there should be effective management tools employed. Unfortunately, the initiative process took the effective wildlife management tool out of the hands of the WDFW.

And the wolf needs entirely too much territory to be a reasonable solution.

PS- Seattle? Hybred wolf?? Those were outlawed a few years back due to their unpredictable nature in that county if I remember right....

This is the second bad cougar I have read about on this board in the last two weeks, first Mike Price and now this one. If this turns out anything like the Mike Price incident don't worry the hounds from the press will get em treed, make him scream for mercy and bring him down.

Well what do you expect? Take away the hounds, and move thousands of californians into the cougars territory. You get encounters. We either need to stop people from coming here, and stop expansion or decrease the number of wildlife. There is only so much land left in this state for them and we're eating it up faster than a lot of you (blind) individuals think.

Hey chappy. Dude shut up. Bring the wolves back and the cougar population will decrease. Good one. Only because their will be no deer or elk left for them to eat. Than you'll have a bunch of really hungry cats that will come even closer to residential areas to get cats, dogs and livestock. Really good idea. What is it Red Foreman always calls Eric on That 70'S show. Right you get the picture.

Glow

Yikes!....Cougars in the woods <img border="0" alt="[wall]" title="" src="graemlins/wall.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[wall]" title="" src="graemlins/wall.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[wall]" title="" src="graemlins/wall.gif" /> I think im gonna stick to Zoo Creek and Reiter. Safety in numbers... Chances are, i can outrun the guy next to me thats tangled up in a wad of mono, beer cans, and styrafoam.

I know what Red say's

HEY DUMBA S S!

Thanks for your awesome insight there Chapster, I always like a good laugh and you sure bring some good ones out in me! Keep up the good work.

Are you gonna reply to the second request about your hybrid wolf pet?

CHAPPY:

How in the hell is bringing back the wolf going to help control the cougar population?

You keep saying this but never provide any thing to prove it.
Can you?
If so do it, and if not. Shut up about the wolfs!

And I’m a all American Red Neck that is retired at 33 so K,M,A.
Guess where not so dammed dumb after all.

Another very good reason I carry a side arm with me. Way to go Drift boater. I completely agree, and unfortunately I don't have the statistics with me. But whe nthat intiative passed I found it very odd that the game dept. would basically give away the cougar and bear tags? They new the best methods for huntign them had just been taken away. It is also strange that up to that point you used to have to apply for a permit to hunt cougars!! Now you can get a tag for $10 and can hunt them fro Aug through March. The harvest hsn't gone up for either bears or coupgars since the hound hunting and bear baiting ban! Yeah sure there are more animals. But the hunters are left without viable way to hunt them.

And Chappy, you are way off base on the wof thing. Give it a rest already!! Wolves and cougars dont have natural predators!! Except maybe grizly bears. There aren't enough game animals to support wolves plus all the cougars and bears that we have already. And support hunting seasons that bring a lot of revenue itno this state!
Buck

i just got back from having a look around the reiter area and i happened to come across a fresh set of cougar tracks in some mud,so i was checking them out because they were pretty big and i saw that the water it stepped in was still murky right on the print area and clear elsewhere.so it had to be right in the area very close that spooked the hell out of me needless to say i didn't waste any time getting out of there i didn't run out just walked normally with an eye over my shoulder the hole way out.the hatchery released a lot of smolts and they are still pretty thick.maybe the cat was feeding on some i didnt stick around to find out.

Good comments glow ball I agree. Everyone keeps jumping around talking about bear and then cougar. These animals have different instincts. First of all I have hunted bears for years. When ever I have encountered a bear the instant they smell you they head on a dead sprint the opposite way. dont forget Grizzleys and black bears are much different from one another. Obviously Alaska has a ton more bears than we do if you have ever been there. I dont think statistics need to be involved in this conversation. A person will be lucky to ever see a cougar in his/her life. The dude about the wolves your an absolute idiot!! Lets remember where we live and what we love and that is fish and wildlife so if you dont like it dont fish in the wilderness. I would recommend to move to California if you dont want to see bears or cougs

I've had cougars trail me on the river...

I went back to fish again a stretch I had fished earlier one morning to find fresh kitty prints in my footsteps...

One time I was fishing a relatively remote OP stream in the snow, followed my own foot prints back and found fresh kitty prints. Did I mention how dark it was? Yikes that was long walk/power walk back to my rig...

If you want to carry a sidearm to the river that's your right and I wouldn't take that away from anyone.

I think it would be wise though to REALLY think about why you are taking it to the river and consider if its really necessary.

I've have never heard of anyone successfully defending against a cougar attack with a gun...never. Who but hunters and fishermen put themselves any deeper in cougar country...

I do know this with some measure of certainty as it has been related to me by great grandfather, a logger, woodsman and avid hunter of deer, elk and cougar on the OP during a time when nearly the only pressure was by locals....

...cougar attacks are defended best by using your arms to protect your neck, not reach for your gun. Usually by the time you are able to reach for your gun the cougar is hightailing it out of there...

The ONE place my great grandfather never took his gun was the river...

Surprisingly, I'm not a real big anti-gun guy either. I wouldn't be so looking forward to firing my father-in-law's Kalashnikov this weekend if I were....I just can't think of a reason why anyone would feel the need to have a firearm on the river. I'm not a prude about it though...if a guy feels like he has to carry a gun in my boat then I'm ok with that....expect me to ask why though.