After looking at the hatchery poll and in recent light of the WT lawsuit threads I decided throw this poll out there. My biggest concern is that WT and others are putting too much emphasis on this hatchery issue, when if they were really concerned about the fish they would target other issues. Just curious if others see it that way too.

RL

gillnets.

Global Warming

Well, we need to get our spawning grounds all cleaned up, cause without them, the fish anit gonna be able to spawn or do much of anything. And in order to go about fixing that up is we need to get land access from the land owners. Said but true, a lot of land owners will not let the state or anyone walk onto there property and clean up and fix up the creeks and stream sides.

Habitat! Habitat and oh did I say habitat. Like it was stated earlyer if the fish have no where to spawn then no recovery is possible.

There are many rivers, especially in the Hood Canal area, where habitat is basically unspoiled with pristine spawning grounds but no fish. I believe that the tribal and commercial nets have ruined those runs. Overall it is "all of the above" that should be in the poll to be really accurate.

Habitat that contains gill nets, dams, and hatcheries.

grandpa,
I know all of the above contribute, well at least 3 of the above , but I wanted to see which is the MOST pressing issue.
My main gripe about this whole WT thing is that it seems they are focusing in the wrong direction.
Also, I guess I should have clarified that I would count gillnets as part of the tribal/commercial option. And yes thats were I feel the most damage is done.

RL

We are...

I think WT goes after hatcheries for many reasons.

One of the biggest reasons is this in my opinion, if hatcheries are gone the excuse for harvest of excess is gone. If excess harvest is gone there is no need for hatcheries which add to and help cover up the problems anyways.

The sad thing is that we have become dependant on hatcheries because of our greed for harvest and oportunity. Since we are so greedy and hardly anyone will make sacrifices of any kind to save the fish or give them a chance to come back they say that hatcheies arnt the problem its the gill netters or its habitat.

No people for the most part it is hatcheries because if we didnt have hatcheries we would see far less gill netting, far less impact on wild stocks in general because you would see far less harvest fisheries and more CnR fisheries where bait isnt aloud and smolt are not being harvested or killed with bait. You would have no more impact from wild and hatchery fish spawning together.

And last but not least all of the money spent on hatcheries could be spent on restoration of wild stocks.

So yes I think hatcheries alone stand in the way of the wild fish. Atleast our current hatchery practices anyway.

Gotta disagree there. What makes you think that if the hatcheries are gone that the tribes will scaleback on gillnetting. Ive seen time and time where a river is closed, even for CNR, yet the tribes continue to net. Not baggin on the tribes here, but I just dont see them stoping this simply because there are no hatchery fish to harvest.
Also, how can you say hatcheries alone stand in the way of wild fish? Weren't hatcheries created because of the decline of native fish runs?
You also say that you would see less impact on wild fish based on more CNR fisheries. Thats assuming an awful lot. If there are only wild fish to harvest than that is what will be harvested.

RL

Commercial and Tribal harvest of course!

Show me a river without spawning habitat. All that I see have plenty of spawning habitat but no fish to use it!

Definitely commerical (tribal and non-tribal) over harvest. Lots of rivers and spawn beds but like /\ said, no fish. Look at places in Alaska and B.C. Salmon are/were doing very bad in some places with pristine habitat yet fish are in danger. What was the one thing that B.C. did to revive it's salmon fishery? Did it have anything to do with habitat? NO! They drastically cut back on commerical fishing.

Although it wasn't one of the choices, I'd say that MAN is the greatest obstacle. we've over-populated the planet, exploited the fish, and ruined the habitat.

The truth is that no ONE thing is the result of the loss of fisheries, it is the combined effect that each one of them take on the fish populations.

Okay, the voice of contention here. I am astonished that no one has voted for the sportsfisherman option. Is it the most important obstacle? Probably not. But, can we as a community admit to contributing to the problem? I believe that we do contribute. It would be interesting to do the numbers on steelhead and salmon. Is the information out there to make that analysis? Inquiring minds want to know.

eddie,
Good point, thats why I put that option in there. I think back in the good ol days this was more of a problem, and it definately contributed to us being in the state we are in now. However, in this day and age the average angler does more CNR than they did 20-30 years ago.

RL

Eddie...top o' the mornin to ya

The numbers are out there for all to see...some fisheries are typically targetting hatchery fish (90% of the Columbia River's fish are of hatchery origin)....some sport take is higher than commercial and visa versa...no question that the sport sector catches alot of fish but I think you might tend to agree that we (sports fishers) are very selective today and release more wild fish than ever before. The data collection methods are improving with the exception of the tribal counts which are poorly policed. We still have a long way to go in data collection but we are using cell phones to call in counts (commercial)..Now there is a big leap..I think I had my first cell phone 20 years ago and we are just now coming to the party. Remember the 4 H's

Habitat
Harvest
Hydro
Hosers

1. Commercial and tribal netting.

2. Foregone Opportunity.

mmm

I cant believe you people some times.

Look at all these groups, they are all conservation oriented, they whant what is best for our wild fish.

These groups were started by anglers for the most part and all of these groups are willing to sacrifice there oportunity for the good of the wild fish.

These groups have no hidden agenda all they want is to rebuild our wild fish stocks and secure them for the future and they are willing to sacrifice their oportunity to harvest hatchery fish or not fish at all to do so. Instead they are willing to put their fishing time and money to save the wild fish.

Most of the people beotching about these groups are willing to do nothing but blame everything accept hatcheries or them selves for being selfish. You people have got blinders on and untill you take them off you are part of the problem.

selfish greedy selfish greedy selfish greedy selfish greedy. That about explains the minset of most.

Rich

Sports fishermen have actually sacrificed quite a bit. I think if anyone here has a set of blinders on it may be you considering the last couple of posts. Maybe you have been hypnotized by Ramon.??? you're getting ver very sleeeepyyyy........