I am looking for advise/info. on pontoon boats. I have somewhat narrowed my choices down to the Outcast Pac 900 and the Skookum Osprey 9'. Also what about building one from a company like NRS? I know there are people on this board with first-hand knowledge, so your advise would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Take a look at Blackbear Ponttons all made in USA, they have more flat surface all steel frame Powder Coated. BlackBearPonttons.com

You didn't say much about your use. You may want to consider a Dave Scadden boat.

http://www.davescaddenpontooncraft.com/ There is a lot of information on that site.

I have the DLS. Dave was at the Seattle Sportsmans show and has actually been in the business longer than most.

Depends. If you want to go custom, the best way to go is buy a set of tubes (I'd suggest Sotar or Wing) and have a board member named Osprey (not the boat, but his name on here) build you a custom frame. He does the best custom work I've seen.

But, if you want a prebuilt boat, the best on the market is the Steelheader. It sounds though you want more a kickboat then the standup platformed version. If you want the ultimate boat that suits you to a T, do the above mentioned first. But, if you want to go with a premade boat, I'd say go Steelheader/Osprey all the way. It seems when it came to whitewater grade boats, he set the bar and the rest are trying to measure up. There's no contest between the Outcast and the Skookum when it comes to buying a production boat. But you'll be as satisfied, if not more designing your own boat.

don't forget a pontoon boats main advantage is it is lightweight : buy the lightest of the two

My main use would be to fish smaller rivers like the Solduc on the O.P. etc. How would I go about getting in touch with "Osprey"? Has anyone owned one long enough to determine how well the fabric and tubes hold up after years of use? Also, what are your opinions on buying one of these craft "used"?

i would recomend black bear pontoons also he is my uncel and i have seen the proses of aking them and ask for scott melton here is his cell phone number 206-372-9998

I have had mine less than 6 mo. it is 8ft. and has a steel powdercoated frame I took it to e.w. for trout and was disapointed it was so heavy. very hard to pack to a lake even 1/4 mile away. It was also sort of hard to carry down the bank when I took it to the snohomish river because it was akward It"s been out about 10 times now and I can already see rust coming from the inside of the frame tubes, I guess they don't powder coat the inside. I'm not as happy with it as I should be for the price. people say if I add a wheel to the frame it will be easer to take places but I don't see how I could get it down the dikes on the snohomish river even with a wheel. and because of it's weight I am scared to go on a small river for fear of needing to get it over a log jam. my advice wait a few years untill they get the bugs worked out of them then buy aluminum or titanium frame for rust/weight problems. I am not aware of a titanium make yet but am sure they are not far off.

I have used the steelheaders for about 8 years. Have held up excellent. Construction is good quality, and they're Steelheader/Guide models are made in the USA as well. He's been building them along time, and they are the perfect boats for the Duc/OP rivers. They are some of the main rivers I fish. Beat using my outcasts on them anyday. You won't be unhappy getting the Steelheader. They are by far the best production boat on the market. They blow the rest listed out of the water.

If you email me, I can get you in touch with Osprey if you want to go the custom route. I'd suggest Sotar/Wing. You won't find much experience from most unless they are whitewater guys. Those two are some of the best on the water. I've used Ospreys frames for a couple years now. Held up great and top notch construction.

Now, weight. If you're lake fishing mostly, go with the smaller/lighter boats (the 10' Osprey by Skookum only weighs about 40#'s). But your weight comes from the heavier material in the tubes and on the frame. Aluminum is great, but most whitewater companies won't use them. One good hit, and you crippled that crossmember. Same hit on steel, will bend but not ruin much of it's carrying capacity, if any. I know a few guys who have enough money to get any frame they want, but when they go custom they go EMT. They would rather sacrifice the weight for durability after a hit. Most use EMT/galvanized steel. So very little rust except near seams. Those are easy touchups.

So, in long run, if you want custom (which can give you exact boat you want down to custom beverage holders build in lol) go with Osprey (riverdawg cataraft frames I think) and then a set of whitewater tubes. But if you want to go with premade boats, Skookum all the way. I'm a customer, so judge by testing most boats out there and from whitewater experience, not because a family member produces them.

Oh sorry, forgot to answer a question. Yes, it's ok to buy used, as long as it's the right boat. Steelheader's hold their value, so you can get a deal, but not much. Not many guys sell of their steelheaders unless they're upgrading size, or found that catarafts just aren't for them. Don't be afraid to buy one, just know what you're looking at and find out new prices first on boat. Check the tubes mostly, it's the one thing that holds that boat out of water. LOL.

I know guys who have had a few of the boats listed above (myself being one) and almost all of them have sold them off to buy Steelheaders. Only ones that didn't only fish flat water/lakes. But if you plan to hit the OP, you want either the custom or the Steelheader hands down.

There are choices to make when looking a pontoon boat or a cat boat like steel or aluminum and even stainless. First with aluminum in order to get the same strength that you would get out of steel you would have to use schedule 40 structural aluminum.
Most pontoon boats made today use drawn aluminun tube which is good for mild river and lake use drawn tube is not as strong as aluminum pipe but remember with aluminm moving parts oblong out. Aluiminum pipe fames weigh as much as steel frames. Some of the larger cat boats use 1 1/4 to 1 1/2" aluminum pipe.

With steel you can use a thinner wall and smaller diamater tube to get the same strength. Down fall is rust allthough galvinized tube works real well where ever there is a weld the galvinze is burned off. Powdercoating can only be applied to the outside of the frame. Some manufactures go the cheaper route and spray paint the weld area.

As far as pontoons go you will here why everybody tubes are better than the next these are the things you will have to sort out on your own. Call all the manufactures and talk to someone and go kick a few tires.

Buying a pontoon boat can be very difficult there are so many options to choose from wether it be a Outcast, Bucks Bags, Water Otter, Skookum, BlackBear, Waterskeeter to name a few.

These are some food for thought 15 years as a certified welder has taught me a few things about metal and fabrication.

Here's more food for thought. Being a welder is great, but only shows you could be a great welder, but not necessarily are best with designs. You know materials to use, but most designers who have been welding them for over 20-30 years know that as well. Only someone who's put years of use in them can really fine tune a boat, especially if they are mechanically inclined. Almost 20 years of running these boats, especially in the whitewater realm, gives alot more expertise on design/performance then welding. I know that a few of the boat owners mentioned above have actually been into these style boats, or whitewatering in general, for well over 20+ years. Helps give them insight on their tubes. A great boat is the mixture of both, not simply being a welder. Why some of the great whitewater and fishing outfits out their aren't welders, but have the best boats in the world. Why? Because they hire people who know what they are doing to carry out their designs. Easy enough. Plus, when it comes down to it, customers carry the biggest asset of all. You get customers like myself who've actually tried most of the boats out there and know what a boat should be designed like and actually put out a good referrel, now that shows a good boat usually. Not people who aren't "impartial" giving referrals.

So for hard use vs weight ; steel or aluminum? Also, I Know the Outcast comes with a 10 year warranty. Is it dangerous to use an anchor with these boats?

Funny you mention that these designs that I have have been tested all over the US and by some of the most experinced in the whitewater field. Not to mention the US forest service relies on our expertise to produce boats for them and other goverment offices.

So you claim my designs could be better how would you know have you been on one of my boats? Or is this because you are a self proclaimed expert?

Most people that claim they are experts are can back it up can you make your own frames?
Can you make your own tubes ?

I can do all of the above all though I choose to outsource my tubes now.

Theres those of us that wsh we could have and those that did.

For hard use definetly galvinized steel tube. As far as warranties are concerned most reputal manufactures will have a stated warranty. As far as anchoring caution must be used these type of crafts anchor should only be used in slow moving water. A lot of mishaps happen when some one tries to anchor in fast water and the back of the boat gets pulled down this occurs a lot on tubes that are rockerd.

Actually, no I can't build my own tubes nor my own frame. Why, because why do I need to? I have welders who can carry out my designs to a T and I also buy my tubes from reputable makers who have far better access to machines and materials and can make more precise boats then I could ever make. Plus, as you well know, it's very costly to start up. Plus, I get exactly what I want for nearly the cost I could ever do on my own by the time I'm done (you have to include ALL your start up costs, you can't simply put an X value on anything you produce, since I assume you know that). Also, just because one can't personally build EVERY little piece does not make them less knowledgeable. So, what you're telling me is that some custom car builder out there who buys all his pieces and fabricates very little and makes alot of money doesn't know what they are doing since they have all their supplies outsourced? I don't think so.

Hey, we've had this dispute before. Big difference, I speak from the heart AND don't SPAM my products online. I am not a paid representative for ANY product out there, except my own fly/jig tying business, but you don't see me spamming sites do you? Just because one is bought by governments, that makes you better? I know Gov't by by the cheapest bid given. I know other manufacturers that have had similar orders from the Alaskan Fish and Wildlife for outfitting their agents with catarafts. So what? As I said, I have experience running them (before they were out on the market for fishing crafts). I've seen your boats, and seen your tubes. I never said your boats sucked, just don't like the tubes. Period.

Now, tell me this one? Why would someone give up a 70K job, free health, dental, etc. 5 weeks paid vacation, 5 free paid holidays to take whenever they want, and LOVE their job to give it up to do something they arn't all the interested in producing? Hmmm? Well, my point exactly. I get EXACTLY what I'm looking for, and don't need to worry about what the other guy is doing and worry about trying to spam sites with my product. I can simply live my life, and my weekends/free time are mine.

Like I said, customers are your true base on your product. I have experience, do I need to go out and get written/notorized statements from all my friends from over the years? Come now, don't be stupid. Most people who know me personally know where I'm coming from. They've seen my boats, have met my friends, and have seen me work my boats. You rarely ever post on a site unless it's pontoon boat/ cataraft related.

Funny thing, I knew that was your only comeback. Who cares if you can build a tube or a frame. Does that mean you are the best or know what you're doing? Your frames are ok, but why not build your own tubes? The tubes you are using are outdated, and are a good 8-10 years behind. How do I know? Because I've looked at your boats, even spoke with you at the Puyallup show. Before you knew who I was. I could tell at the Seattle Show you were looking for me, surprised you didn't remember me. Just I had no beard at the Puyallup show, had one at the Seattle show. But your tubes are on the same track now as Skookums tubes where back in 92' when I bought my first steelheader (may have been 93'). I have seen JPW's, and it's funny how he's making his endcaps IDENTICLE to SKookums now, they weren't that way in the past. Plus, his tubes now are identicle to Skookums of the past. I've seen them, run, and owned the older Steelheaders, and know the tubes well. The JPW's you have now are identicle to what Skookum produced years ago. The Skookums have improved. Before you say a word, his whitewater tubes are made here. Found out that he taught some of the overseas companies to build tubes correctly off his designs. But his tubes are made here. Why do you think the other companies tubes are looking like the Skookums? Because they outsource for the cheaper overseas boats made simliar to the Skookum (lower grade material on overseas). I guess the best way to compliment someone is to copy them. Seen alot more copies of the Steelheader, especially in other boats out there.

But, to get back to topic. If you want the ultimate boat, go custom. Osprey has alot of years experience welding (I am almost definite more then 15, because I've worked for UPS that long, and I first saw him as an oldtimer at his old company then), and his work is the best I've seen weldwise. Plus, he's been using these boats along time too. Nicest thing of all, when he outsources tubes he goes for the best. He suggests Sotar or Wing. But, like I said, the best boat on the market outside custom is the Steelheader hands down, say what you want. Spam what you want. Funny thing is, I first hand spoke with people who walked the show, and compared the boats. I heard their responses. I even ran into some of my old whitewater buddies. Heard their comments too. I also saw how many boats were sold as well for being more expensive then yours. So that must be saying something since we were right next door. And, before you say a word, I was NOT paid for being at the show. Bill has customers come and speak to interested parties and give a customer's perspective. Funny how many guys we had stopping by and volunteering for FREE to stick around and speak with potential customers of his boat. That's what you call customer service, and producing a good boat.

We can agree to disagree. But I speak from experience and heart. You speak from being a salesman trying to sell your own boat, and having relatives come on here too and spamming for you. But I do my posts for free, not to advertise. Shall we go farther and bring up the past? Can easily be done. Last time I checked, didn't see BBpontoons as a sponsor here?

Also, I've purposely told people to buy other boats. Even at the sportsman show I sold them on the Outcasts, Buck's, Skeeters, because the Steelheader was too much boat for what they wanted. I ONLY sell people on what they need. But when it comes to wanting the best, I point them in the right direction for price range.

who's spaming if you read the post carfully I gave some insight on metal and also threw out some other manufactures and advised people to check them all out. I think that maybe you maybe the one spaming it sure seems to me that you were the one spaming.

Steelheader69, BBPontoons is sure spamming a lot. 9 total messages since May 2002. Go back and look at what started your rant. BBPontoons said he's learned something in 15 years of being a certified welder. Well, duh, I hope so.

Seriously though, Steelheader69, I suggest you quit worrying about BBPontoons motives and boats.

I assume you noticed, there were several brands mentioned. I think the members of the board can make their choice on their own. Some will choose right, and some will choose wrong, and that is the way it is.

I want to know why the first two posters[posers?] have the exact same IP address??

Thanks guys. Actually, it's hard to spam when you get nothing out of the deal but a thank you. Now, if I made a profit, that would be different. I point people to alot of different boats in the recent past. So, am I spamming Bucks, Outcast, and a few others? I just got a thank you via PM from a flyfishing board I go to where I encouraged a buy to buy a Bucks, because it was what he needed for price he wanted to spend. Difference is, I may push few boats/designers, I do actually SELL quite a few brands. Making a profit is where spam comes into play.

I really don't worry. Just funny like you said that all posts are related to a certain matter. Just hate seeing spam on sites. Especially since I mod on a few. Free advertising doesn't help the site out at all from a non sponsor. It's more taking advantage of the Site Owners then helping them. That's what peeves me the most.