I was crabbing out in the Hood Canal last Sunday I noticed all the of Tribal Commerical Crab pots that were now fishing. It was unreal that how many crab pots were in the water. I was approuched by a Indian crabber and he asked me how I was doing on crabbing I told him crabbing was ok but not as good as last weekend. While he was talking to me I noticed that he had six 50 gallon plastic containers full of crab. As I was returning to the boat launch there were 5 Indian Commerical Crab boats unloading there boats to buyers from Canada. I seen hundreds of pounds of crab unloaded into there trucks. With this many crab being taken from the canal the crab will be wiped out just like everything else the tribes go after. There was not one person from the WDFW to take count of there catch but when it comes to the sports crabber you had better dotted your I's and crossed your T'S or you will recieve a ticket. When all the crab have been riped out the Tribes will say that the WDFW gave them permission to crab and put the blame on us. What is wrong with this picture. I'm not a prejudice person but the WDFW is making me one because of the special treatment that the Tribes get.

The 50% going to the tribes has caused some residence of the canal to start raping there shelfish and the crab.There mentality is to get it before the tribes do.I know a couple of people that are giving it away as fast as they can harvest it.

I was crabbing in Port Townsend and Oak Bay this past weekend and couldn't beleive the number of pots on either side of the cut.

Later in the day I saw the tribes making several runs out to pick up their numerous pots, and then heard this morning of the scene Lingcod described on his post.

Very disappointing. Each ethnic group has their few that reflect poorly on the group as a whole, but there is way too much $cash$ involved for the State to just let this go on the honor system.

At some point I expect we will here of tempers flying as the perception by the general public in an area of Puget Sound filled with long-time Washingtonians, is that the Tribes are doing just as is described above. I hope it is not as bad as it looks, but I think it is well worth my tax dollars to have someone there to keep things honest.

Remember, there are three groups after the crab: The recreationals, the tribes, and the non-tribal commercial crabbers.

I'm not sure what percentage of the total take of crab is allotted for the recreational crabbers, but I know with the spot shrimp, it's only 15% of the total - NOT 50%.

I was out there crabbing too. Was out at the Salsbury launch Saturday afternoon to pull my pots right when the commercial season started at 5:00 that day. It was a mad house. There were pots EVERYWHERE! Talked to one of the tribal guys while pulling ours and asked how long they were going to be out there. He said till Monday or so. As far as I could tell, they were only crabbing north of the Hood Canal Bridge. We did pretty well out there, but I'm sure by now it's a different story. Came back into the launch and there was a huge refrigerated truck waiting. I did actually see three tribal cops there, but wonder how much enforcement power they have.

Just like AuntM was saying: I know a lot of people with the same mentality...get them before the Indians do. Looks like a downward spiral from here. Probably just a matter of time before the crab season goes the way of the shrimp season.

I witness this all the time up here in the north part of area 7..
It gets real bad when the tribes and non tribal are switching out...

Just a few weeks ago I was heading back from the islands we are crossing the banks and we count 15 or so derilict pots.. All tribal and all been in the water a while..
Do they just write them off and get a new subsidized check to buy new pots?

( I "heard" that many of the pots had lotsa crab still in them, and the pots were only a season old)

After experiencing the fiascos described above in area 8-2 I decided to go to the tribal fisheries office to find out when the tribal crabbers would be on the water so that I could schedule my crabbing excursions on days they would not be out. In talking with the people there I found out that the tribal people were now required to mark on a punch card the 12 crab per 2 day personal limit for subsistance fishing which would then be counted towards the Indian allotment. The commercial buyers have always been required to report the amount of product bought from the Indian fishermen. So an accurate count can be assertained. The problem is in the enforcement by tribal fisheries patrol. Many times the patrolmen are related to those doing the fisheries so the head is turned the other way or just a warning issued when there are violations.( had a friend who worked as a tribal fisheries officer who got fired for citing the tribal chairman for fishing outside the boundry). The state has gotten more assertive in making sure the tribes are counting every thing they take against their allotment so hopefully things will be on a better track.

Rape the crab, rape the salmon,rape the steelhead, and whatever else they want to rape and then go build casinos all over hells half acre. Nothing But GREED,GREED, and more
GREED And then some of the sports fisherman that moan and ***** go and spend their hard earned cash at these same casinos. Go figure!

Not me they will never get me spending my $$ in their casinos.. NEVER!

VEGAS BABY!

Aunty,

I stand corrected regarding Hood Canal.

Thanks for the clairification.

I have lived and recreationally harvested seafood from Puget Sound (Whidbey Island 43 yrs.) all of my life. I have never recalled so damn many commercial pots going after the crab as there now are. Commercial pots everywhere (RAPE!!!!) It is not just disappointing it is absolutly discusting!
A Washington Fisheries Marine Biologist did a presentation on crab at a Fishing Club meeting quiet a while back and some statistics came to light that I believe should be brought into consideration by us all. That statistic is that the commercials and the Indians collect over ninety nine percent of the crab off of the Washington Coast. Obviously the recreationals collect one percent or less off the coast. Now if they get most all of the crab off of the coast, why shouldn't the recreationals get the vast majority of the crab inside of Puget sound? It make sense as we are not equiped for the Oceans perils and the commercials are! We have to make some dramatic changes as we are getting screwed!!!

Could not agree with you more AuntyM (kinda scary, huh?)
This cannot be compared to a few people that take crabs out of season for personal use. Just like the family that kills a deer to eat cannot be compared to a commercial poaching operation (it is still wrong though).
I have never had hard feelings towards the tribes when it comes to subsistance. No problem. But the treaty (what a interpretation joke) was written at a time when the tribes needed to fish/hunt for their lives. Just like our constitution has been ammended many many times to reflect changes in this country, so should the treaties. They do not need to Crab or fish for anything more than subsistance. I have known several Yakima's, Cayuse, Walla Walla, etc. that worked regular jobs and took their vacation during tribal netting seasons. More than one told me they made more in those few weeks than they made in several months of working. Another called it "Bonus Money". This was not the intent of the treaty. It was written to allow the indians to survive and continue with a way of life. Had any tribes raped the resource then as they do now, other tribes would have wiped them out in no time........ It would not have been allowed. Problem now with many of these tribal fisherman is simply this..... If the fish/crabs go away, it will ALWAYS be the white mans fault, and they know that they will always then be able to sue and get $$ for the loss..... It is quite the racket. For most tribes, it is a win-win situation. For the truly honorable tribal member, it is a disgrace.....

MC

Well lets see if Ive got this straight. Pre bolt decision there were a few indians that fished as the treaties allowed and then the white men tried to force them to go by thier rules so the indians went to court and won the right to 50% of the salmon harvest. Now there are alot more indians fishing for salmon than ever before! A few years ago there were a few indians who tried to collect shellfish for subsistance as the treaties allowed and the white (beach property) owners wouldnt let them so they went to court and won the right to 50% of the shellfish harvest. Now there are alot more indians harvesting shellfish than ever before! WHAT WAS THAT QUOTE ABOUT HISTORY REPEATING IT'S SELF?

I'm not pro Indian, but the Natives did not write the laws, the white man did. The same goes for the miner, the logger, the farmer, and the white comercial fisherman. Yours and mine elected officials (state and federal) make the rules. Start there.

Every year we have a Family Reunion at Hood Canal to share in the adventure of the hunting and gathering of crab, oysters and clams.
We number about 35 - 40 people.
I requested going this upcoming weekend, because of a very low tide, but was overruled and we all went last weekend.
With only two boats for all, me with one, we were out crabbing for 3 days, including Sat.

I didn't realize the commercial pots were coming out at 5:00 until I was already on the water and one of the natives alerted me at 3:30 p.m. THey said they were on a 2-day opener. We finally gave up with 23 crab taken (not a full limit, but OK) at 8:00 p.m.

Driving back to the dock took a keen eye to avoid all the buoys and I even got a couple of stares as I maneuvered, full speed (28 mph), around equipment and boats. The dock had 6 commercial vessels side-by-side and it took 1 hour to pull-out from the time I reached the dock. (2) Semi trailers were in place collecting the catches.

If there are any more crab out there, I will definitely be checking with the WDFW and tribal offices before I go out again.

This group, as a whole, is pretty fair about bashing whatever group it is that is being greedy or unethical. Threads on issues such as snagging/flossing, water rights, crabbing, man invading nature's territory, etc. all see several pages of very interesting takes on the issue.

This issue is the same, however I think it is more visable to the public. That, combined with the fact that we are not too many generations removed from the "good old days" makes it a personal issue.

I suspect many of you have seen commercial boats right in front of family homes all night long with as much disregard for the property owners as for the natural resources they are after.

I don't discriminate the greedy guys that belong to a tribe from the greedy white guys that fish commercially. Enough of them are in it for as much money as they can get as fast as they can before it's gone, that they have now gotton a themselves a bad name. (along with several other reasons)

I do try and keep my feelings about this group seperate from tribal business owners that are attempting to make a go of it. (I try to include the tribal casinos into this group, but sometimes have to remind myself).

We are all in this together, but some think it's a sprint to the finish line and that pisses me off. It makes it difficult not to get caught up in it yourself.

So you're right, go after the law-makers to make changes, but speak up in forums like this too, as it gives us a safe place to think through the issues. And "Prebolt" or "Postbolt" RAPE is RAPE, regardless of whether you're a Swede or Native American.

Chaser, you say You forget one thing...... The Tribes you speak of were attempting to go onto PRIVATE clam/Oyster beaches and claimed that the treaty gave them the right to do so. These folks spend their money to seed, cultivate, and harvest on their plots. The Tribes had no right to go onto private property. That would be the same as them going on to a private fish farm and saying the treaty gave them that right.. BS!
Then, they sued, and thus the new ruling that on all public and tribal held lands they have the right to take 50% of the sustainable harvest........ History lesson over....

MC

The native Americans got screwed by the white people in the beginning. They have not progressed and thrived like other cultures as a whole. We have tried to mitigate screwing them over in many ways. My biggest disappointment is how the tribal governments do not seem to ake care of their own. There is a heirarchy of families who have the big houses and the money and then the masses of tribal members who still live in really bad poverty. The fishing rights are held by families who hold onto the specific spots ont he rivers for generations. Just go to Taholah at the mouth of the Quinault if you want to see how a tribe lives that has opportunity and money. It is sickening.

So the tribes do not govern their new found wealth of fish and shellfish very well. I don't see the tribes thriving no matter how much aid and how big a percentage of the "take" they get. So many of them are greedy slobs just trying to earn enough for their next jug of whiskey. Some day if our politics keep going the way they are the tribes will have 100% of the fish and shellfish and I think they will be just as poor, drunk and greedy as they are now.

Wether We are white, Native american or black, or whatever if you look about this planet greed is running rampant and eventually will be the downfall of us all!

No lefties because they were all democrats That would leave lots for the righties to plunder!

Long before I climbed out of my hollowed out ceder tree and stuck my nose into this world we call pollitics I always believed it boiled,ultimately down to one thing,to many people or not enough to go around!