I've seen tribes working on habitat a long ways from the rez.

Most of them realize that the salmon rely on more habitat than just what runs through the rez.

Personally I've seen the tribes doing far more work than the state.

Eddie, eddie, eddie,

You say;" I will engage in a rather deplorable tactic of quoting you without putting the full context around it."

Da, I wonder why you would do something like that! Maybe you couldn't make your point any other way, so maybe that is why you have refused to show all the rest of the context!

Maybe you may not look so good… you think? So it’s a no brainier for those that have no idea what you are talking about! Why would you take a quote from another board and try to use it here to defend your weak position, unless your position was weak from the beginning. You're now degraded yourself into taking text from another reply, from another board, and trying to use it defend your weak position on this board.

Eddie, you need to let all of our board members know that you using text from another board, from another reply, to make your point! That's unethical in my book! Maybe my mind is failing, but did I try to use your statements on this post from a different board to better my image on this board? If so, will you please post them so that we can all see and understand where you are going?

Apparently it's not been a good day for you eddie!

I am all ears, so bring it on!

Finally, I sure don't see any tribes posting their ideas on how we can fund a fish habitat restoration fund… do you?

Lets get together soon and a beer or two and move on!

[Edit] Peace eddie!

Cowlitzfisherman

CFM, Fair point and at least I had the decency to say my tactic was not completely above board. However, it was also stated somewhat tongue in cheek as I have noticed that you will take quotes out of context in your posts. Just to clear up any confusion, the issue of Letty and the definition of the word conquer came from Steelheader.net.

In terms of your last statement about the tribes not posting their ideas, well, that was exacly my point. I don't believe that the "tone" of your suggestion (and your subsequent comments here and at Steelheader.net) was such that it would encourage a reply. And that was my point. Which you decided to ignore in your reply. So, what up? Was your original suggestion and subsequent defense designed to elicit a response from the tribes or was it designed to entertain and cause guys like me to rise to the bait? If the former, do you think you have used the most effective method to get a response. I'm trying to determine your motivation. If it's to get the tribes to pay for habitat enhancement, great. I would respectfully submit there are better ways to do it.

Beer??? - I'm already too fat! A martini maybe

Eddie

I think we are closer in minds than you may think! I defended my position when I was under siege, I had to defend my position, and unfortunately, people do what they must! Take no personal offense.

Originally, I thought that the tribes would respond, but that did not happen. On the other site, some tribal members did make some response, but they just wanted to defend the tribe's position.

Did I answer your question now, or do you need more?

Cowlitzfisherman

From what I understand The Puyallup, Nisqually, and Muckelshoot all have a fisheries program. They have hatcheries, biologists, test fisheries, etc. Just those three tribes alone cover the entire south sounds largest salmon runs. They get alot of money from federal grants but I am sure some also comes from the tribes annual budgets too. And with all the casinos profits, those budgets are bigger. So maybe they already do give one days profit to the fish. I still think all nets need to be banned. My idea was give all tribal members free fishing licenses for food use. Allow them to catch the fish in a traditional manner, spear, cedar bark nets, fish trap, dip nets etc, for their special occasions. That way they keep the heritage alive. The free licenses would be used just like the rest of us. The same would go for hunting. To make up the money from selling fish, allow unrestricted gambling. Think about it, 25 cents a pull or 25 cents a pound? Lastly every treaty I have read signed by the Feds and the Tribes states that the tribes cannot have alcohol on their rez and that they can only trade with the US, no other countries. They can be viewed at this link.
http://www.nwifc.org/tribes/

This has unfortunately degenerated into personal attacks....Attacks on indians and poor Eddie. Why would a member of any tribe offer something they are not reasonably motivated to do?They hold all the cards to coin a little pun. We need to come to them with suggestions and not challenges and ultimatums. Offer some constructive suggestions and not just an in-your-face challenge. The bottom line of this is that this thread is a hollow challenge based on distain for indians and resentment for the Boldt decision which unfortunately is the federal law of the land.

You go Grandpa !!! I think I'm out of here on this one. CFM - we will have to agree to disagree on the proper way to convince and motivate. BTW - my favorite river is Salmon River out on the Peninsula. Great Hatchery steelhead produced by the Quinault tribe.

Boy grandpa

It's sure nice to know that we can always count on your wisdom! Especially when you come running in and make such a wise closing statement!

First You say;

And then you said;

And after that you said;

And then you said;

But the best one of them all was when you came back and had the gonads to say this:

grandpa yourr some kind of guy!

Sorry eddie, but grandpa went just a little to far with his last post!


Cowlitzfishereman

Whats with this do or say something to make them want to do it crap??? Does the Gov't do that for ordinary joe? Maybe if they would go about it differently, or say it "just right", then I would gladly give up 40% of my paycheck, or maybe then I would not mind giving so much to the SS fund that I will not ever see, or happily pay that $10.00 launch fee at Mukilteo............
Since when does anyone try to dance around anything with us ordinary folks who have no ethnic excuse to be pampered and "talked into" doing what is right????
Wish I could get some of that kind of respect....

I personally would settle just for being able to use the launches free, as the tribes do.......
As far as your PC term "Native American" Eddie, I am as native american as they come. That means I was born here and not in another country. Lest we forget that even the Indians migrated here at one time, challenged and fought whomever was in the way for the resources, and battled constantly for the best area's to live and hunt.

Hmmmmmm..... I wonder why the tribes are so against "Kennewick Man" study, especially after the discovery that he had anglo bone structure and was over 9000 years old? Maybe the migrants from asia were not the first or only ones here at that time...... He also had an arrow head buried in his hip..... Maybe he lost the land that he had made claim on??

Just a thought....

MC

CFM

I oftentimes agree with what you say but I must say that you are treating this like a court of law or something. You dredge up all this "evidence" to support your side of the story and blast the hell out of people who disagree. Wake up man! This is an OPINION board...not a courtroom or a quiz show. Eddie has opinions as I do and you should take them for what they are..OPINIONS> I think you need a good flaming on this one

So here comes the flame thrower:

You usually make a good case for things relating to the Cowlitz which I know little about . On the issue of indian relations you just suck. If I were a member of a tribe I wouldn't give you the sweat off my cajones. Furthermore you should really look into some of the positive things that are already being done by the tribes. I am extremely critical of alot of the abuses with fisheries but I also am aware of things like the Sockeye fishery in Lake Washington which would simply not exist if it were not for efforts by the tribes. So I can blast the tribes when they are taking unfair advantage and still seek to work with them instead of intimidating them as you seem to be trying to do. MNaybe you think your post is a noble gesture but I see it as a sham.

Get out your fire extinguisher.

That's really funny grandpa!

Looks to me like you got caught in your own little mouse trap and now you're crying for help for someone to let you out!

Bad things sometimes happen to mice… or rats!

A flame from you can sometime be a great honor!

Cowlitzfisherman

Wow, some thick animosity around these parts!

Regarding Indians impacting the Snake Dams, CFM said - "If the tribes represented more then just 2% of the populace in Washington State, that just might mean something!"

In reality what carries weight beyond population numbers is - TREATY RIGHTS.

I'll admit, I don't like gillnets. But with respect to Columbia basin and Snake River stocks, those treaties may be the Salmons' long-term insurance policy.

The courts have already ruled to the effect that - yes, there must be salmon in the river in order for the US to uphold its end of the treaty contract. Ergo, the government has to manage the Snake dams so that the stocks don't become extinct. If this can't be accomplished, than the Snake dams have to be removed or significantly modified.

That is a fact! So what is your guy's problem with me stating that fact?

So sayeth CFM

I think you have been watching too many old episodes of Dragnet ....

The bottom line is that the Boldt Decision is fact and treaty rights are fact....all the rest is
BULL****

the elwhas seem to be working pretty hard on getting rid of the dams on the elwha ....and i think treaty rights are gonna be a heck of a tool to beat on the snake river dams too....

Habitat restoration for most tribes is beginning with restoring and raising a decent standard of living for the members of the tribe. They aren't doing a very good job of that with all the cash some of the tribes are generating. Hopefully some of the money will help educate the people so in the future they can stop being so dependant and join the mainstream of society instead of being a separate "nation". The clout they have with the fishing related portions of their treaties is , in fact, having a huge impact on management of the fisheries in our state, especially in the Columbia river system. Without the threats the treaties bring with them, the dam operators would no doubt be spending next to nothing to mitigate the effects of the dams on salmon runs on the Columbia.

Good point about the Elwa dams. After hering about them for years, it was a great experience last month to stop by the lower one and take some before-removal pictures. I look forward to coming back in 2007 for the post-removal pictures.

grandpa

Some of you guys have been putting your own spin on this thread and insinuating that I am picking on the tribes because I made this challenge for the "casinos" to fork out a days profit for a special Habitat Fund.

Especially you grandpa with your catty remarks i.e;

grandpa

I had let you rant on and on about this issue, and haven't really gotten into your face because I knew you could paint yourself into the corner like you always seem to end up doing!

As an example, you rant on and say;

It looks like you may be catching a serious case of "foot in mouth disease" again grandpa! Before you open your mouth to remove your foot, let me compare what the real reality is compared to your misconceptions are about me and the tribes.

First off, I do work extremely close with the Indian Tribe in Lewis County. I am extremely close friends with the Cowlitz Indian Tribes, and many of their members and have personally had the Chair of the Tribe at my home no less then 6 times for meetings. How many times have you invited the chair of any tribes to attend meetings in your home? I'll bet you can count them on one hand and have 4 ½ fingers left over!

I have been invited to tribes new culture center off Spencer Road (the Mission) numerous times and have also been invited to lunch numerous times to meet with tribal members to discuss issues concerning the Cowlitz and its dams. I have met with the Chair and have personally walked together though the hills for miles trying to locate new routes for fish to bypass the Cowlitz Dams. If you think that I have a "problem" working out issues with "the tribes", I suggest that you contact the Chair of the Cowlitz Tribe and get his opinion. I suspect that you may be eating "crow pie" shortly after that meeting!

And just to put a little more crow pie on the table for your desert, I will also inform you that all of our legal filings on the Cowlitz are "jointly" filed with the Cowlitz Tribe. So shouldn't that tell you and the average guy that I don't have a problem communicating with the tribes or working out issues jointly?

Just because a person may suggest a new way to generate funding for habitat, doesn't mean that he is against the tribes!

Any finally, I will challenge both you and GaryK to show this board where I have not worked hand to hand with the tribes, especially on the Cowlitz.

So grandpa, please drop your crap about me not being able to work with tribes! I'll match my time and work with tribes against yours, anytime that you want to do it! Maybe you should learn a little more about a person before you start trying to put them down.


Cowlitzfisherman

This thread is starting to make me weary

Can't we all just get along?

CFM said -- "Any finally, I will challenge both you and GaryK to show this board where I have not worked hand to hand with the tribes, especially on the Cowlitz"

Perhaps I'm ignorant of the 'throw-down' culture on this board.

CFM, if you re-read what I posted, there is absolutely not a single word there about you personally and what you have or have not done, either on the Cowlitz or anywheres else.