Since this is such a huge issue, I am going to post this same question on other fishing boards!

Isn't it about time for the tribes in Washington State to "walk the talk"?
Here's an idea that can help mend many a hard feelings between the white man and the Indian.

Since the Boldt decision, the tribes have been maximizing the benefits from the federal government and taking every advantage possible, such as getting grants to do habitat recovery work, etc., etc. on their Reservation lands

Well wouldn't it be noble statement from our Northwest American Indian Tribes to donate just one day worth of all of their "combined casino profits" to a special fish habitat recovery fund? Since the tribes have no problem in being entitled to harvesting 50% of the states harvestable fish, wouldn't it be noble for the tribes to actually give something back to nature instead of just taking it from her? We hear how much these fish mean to them culturally, but we never see them doing anything outside of their reservation to improve the fish's habitat.

Think of the money that could be generated in just one single 24 hour period? How many of you fishermen would go out for just one night of gambling and spend $50 or $100 bucks if you knew that "profit" from same money would good directly back into a special fish habitat restoration fund? Just think of the PR that it would give to the tribes. The tribes would not only benefit directly from the PR, they would also see the benefits from their 50% share of the returning harvestable fish.

I see lots of non profit groups each year that raise money for just such projects, but I do not ever recall seeing one single tribe make such an effort.

The funds could be co managed so that both tribal and non tribal habitat work could both receive the benefit.

Finally, I have been told that not all Casinos' on Tribal land are being run by the tribes. Some have private companies running them and all the financial gain is in jobs for tribe members. Never the less it would benefit them in PR far more then the one day in finical rewards could possibly do

So what do you think, could it be done?

Cowlitzfisherman

CF:

Call the nearest tribal community service and responsible citizenship (CSRC) office and leave a message for them to call you back about your idea. Be sure to tell them that when they call back to ask for MR. BLUE..because that is the color you will turn holding your breath waiting.

grandpa

Let's give them a chance to reply!

You may be right, but they should be given the opportunity to reply. Bite your lip, and let's see if they have the gonads to take on such a challenge!


Cowlitzfisherman

OK Mr. Blue~~~

Let's take it one step further CFM, let's have the forest industries do the same, and the pulp and paper industries, and the land developers, and the home builders, and the ...well you get the idea. Every one of these industries have PR flacks that proclaim loudly that these groups are helping the environment, fish runs, etc. What do you think? I think you have a new relative Mr. Blue!

Left unchecked the aforementioned group would no doubt cut down every tree, pollute every stream and pave over every piece of dirt. It is in that same spirit that I say that if the tribes are left unchallenged they, too , will catch every fish, every crab, every geoduck and every animal in sight. They will grab every dollar they can in any way they can and their people will still be living in poverty and ignorance. Just go down to Tahollah and see for yourself.

Grandpa - my point exactly. Thank you.

Cut CFM some slack, his idea could be a reality with some positive minded marketing aimed directly to the Indian Tribes that run the very profitable casinos.
I think it is about time to try and align ourselves (sport fishing) with the tribes and work in harmony with them to increase the habitat and hatcheries needed to sustain and increase the harvestable Salmon and Steelhead in Washington. It is very obvious that the (non-Indian) commercial fisheries aren’t even close to helping in this problem.

the puyallup tribe has been steping up to the plate for people pf tacoma. big sponcers of the 4th of july shows,and others like it thru out the year..also the just gave Mary Bridge Childerns Hosp. just sort of 500k dollors for the new hospital wing! when they gave that check up the tribal elder said something like "whats good for this communite is good for the Puyallup tribe"

Thanks RiverLiver!

It appears that most of you have just skipped over the wording that I had used! That word was "noble". Everyone already knows that the timber companies, pulp and paper industries, land developers, and the home builders, could care less, and never have had any concern about doing anything "noble" for the fish. They do everything for money and that’s it!

But the tribes have told us that the white mans ways are wrong and that they "respect the land and habitat" that support the ceremonial fish.

You got to remember that we are talking about a race of people who have for hundreds of years now, have become depended on the hand outs from the white man to better there race. After they were conquered by the white man, we gave them land to live on (reservations). Then we made them even more dependent on the white man for there own survival. Now they must depend on the white mans money to bring back their habitat that support their ceremonial beliefs that fish are part of their ancestral culture.

So what's wrong with encouraging them to do something noble for their own race and for the fish? One would think that the tribes would want to be an independent nation that did not depend on the white mans money to restore there culture. Maybe people would once again believe that the tribes are still a noble race if they could once again do something noble, and not ask the the white man for the money to do it! It's easy to take the white mans money and then complain about how bad the white man has managed the lands, but wouldn't it be noble of the tribes to show the white man that they truly do care about the fish and not just the money and "walk the talk"!

Anyway, they do have an opportunity now to put fish ahead of profit, and show the white man that they do really care about the fish.

Cowlitzfisherman

I was hoping that the Native Americans would begin to lose interest in the salmon fishing as they started to make so much money on the casinos. But that's not a bad idea

I was hoping that too Jeff, but it dosen't look like that will happen anytime soon. I for this idea, let's make it happen.

I was doing some research on the history of the Northwest Indians at this web site:
http://www.washington.edu/uwired/outreach/cspn/hstaa432/index.html#intro
and I found this:

"Specifically, the Boldt decision guaranteed Indians the right to catch one-half of the commercial salmon harvest every year (even though Indians in western Washington amounted to no more than 2% of the total population). With the precipitous decline of runs of salmon, this decision put pressure on Indians and non-Indians to co-operate with one another to protect the remaining salmon fisheries of western Washington"

One half of the "commercial salmon harvest"! Does this mean that if we did not have a "commercial harvest", that the tribes would not be entitled to one half of the fish?

What do you think it means?

Cowlitzfisherman

Thought you might be interested to know that the tribes have been very involved in advocating for either modifying the four Snake River dams, or removing them; whatever it takes to restore the runs.

Such an action is absolutely huge and is the most significant habitat improvement that could feasibly be done in the Columbia basin.

History in the last three decades has shown that 50% of nothing is not nothing when it comes to the tribes. period.

GaryK

If the tribes represented more then just 2% of the populace in Washington State, that just might mean something! It will take an act of congress to achieve that one!

Cowlitzfisherman

In your 50% scenario you forgot the ceremonial and sustinance fisheries. Ceremonial means whenever a tribal member has a birthday they can fish etc....The rest is an open ended fish for food thing...I don't think anyone really knows what the take really is.

CFM, this thread reminds me of a couple earlier threads that you initiated. I usually enjoy your well thought out, well researched posts, and I know that you truly care about your beloved Cowlitz. However, after reading this thread and reading the same thread over on Steelheader.net, I really suspect your motives - this feels like you are trying to take the Boldt decision, the history of Indian/White Man interaction and put a spin on it that is interesting intellectually but of no practical value whatsoever. If your intent was to actually have the Indians contribute casino profits to the restoration of the resource then I would ask you to read all the posts you have made here and on the other board and ask yourself, "If I were Indian would I listen and act on CFM's idea?" Maybe I'm not good enough or smart enough - I would probably tell you to stick it where the sun don't shine. So, what was your intention with this post? Did you, as I suspect, decide to have a little fun and see who would rise to the bait? If so, you got me but I would suggest that you turn your well developed analytical method and try something else.

Eddie

You may not know it, but I did asked other board members to review this post before I had posted it so that people like you would not take offense on it. Apparently you and "gooose" (the guy on the other fishing board) must both have some Indian blood in your veins.

Why else would both of you get so damn excited about one persons suggestion that the Indian Casino's donate one days of their profits to a special Habitat fund?

Both of you guys have gotten your hair up way to high about this issue, so it must be personal. All that I had originally said concerning the boldt decision was this;" Since the Boldt decision, the tribes have been maximizing the benefits from the federal government and taking every advantage possible, such as getting grants to do habitat recovery work, etc., etc. on their Reservation lands"

That is a fact! So what is your guy's problem with me stating that fact? It's not bashing the tribes, its just plain stating what has happen. If I am wrong then show me!

Since you keep bringing up the boldt decision, it would indicate to most that you may fear that if enough people get concerned again, that it just might end up back in the courts again. That's how it is appearing to me anyway!

Well if that happens, so be it! It's not going to change my life one way or the other, so I really don't care what happens! Saying that, it will not stop me nor will it stop others from discussing that decision in some detail from time to time on this board unless Bob wants to edit such topics.

If you don't like my thread-don't read it! Quite making your negative comments to it, or just let it lay! Or better yet, why don't you figure out a better alternative to create funding for our fish habitat and post it so that I can sit on my duff and play the critic roll like you and gooose (the guy on the other board) have done so well. As lease I have made an effort to get people interested in doing something to restoring our fish habitat and gotten them to think. It may not be the way you would do it, or your choice, but at lease I took the step to get something going!

Now you should know what "my intentions" were for making this post

So now eddie, its time for you to walk the talk or let it go!

There was no "baiting" intended on this thread, It was just one idea to raise some much needed money for our fishes habitat!

Cowlitzfisherman

CFM, I do not intend to get into a pi**ing contest with you on this. I may have Indian blood in me, I don't really know and it has absolutely no bearing on my thoughts and decisions. Having said that, I will engage in a rather deplorable tactic of quoting you without putting the full context around it. Here are some of your statements that sets a negative tone to having any Indian tribe that owns a casino decide to follow up with your suggestion in a positive way.

"You got to remember that we are talking about a race of people who have for hundreds of years now, have become depended on the hand outs from the white man to better there race. After they were conquered by the white man, we gave them land to live on (reservations). Then we made them even more dependent on the white man for there own survival. Now they must depend on the white mans money to bring back their habitat that support their ceremonial beliefs that fish are part of their ancestral culture."

There was also the lively debate with Letty regarding the definition of conquest.

My point is that I read these things not as fact or fiction but as a tone in trying to motivate someone to do something. My issue and the reason that I said you were trying to get folks to rise to the bait is that I see your tone as inflammatory. With that said, I'm very uncertain that you could get a tribe to agree to your suggested donation of profits.