I've seen it all now.
You would have thought that a major drug bust was going down yesterday at blue creek.
WDFW and Sheriff evey where you looked.

I had a friend of mine call me last night and said the same thing! He said the guys who were running the "patrol boat" were more dangerous then the guys who were fishing from their sleds. Apparently they only knew how to go one speed, and that was full throttle!

Apparently they had some kind of "joint effort" going on the between the sheriffs office and WDFW enforcement at the same time. He also told me that when they came back in to the "mission boat ramp", that over half of the vehicles in the parking lot had been "ticketed" for not having the vehicle Use Permit on display .

That's a $66 fine, or if you go out and buy the permit afterwards, and show proof that you have bought it within 15 days, they cut the fine back to $35! But it will cost you $10 plus a trip to the court house and court fees to do it!

You can image what the sport fishing guides must feel like when they bring back their clients and they have a $66 ticket stuck onto their windshield! I know for a fact, that there are a lot of unhappy fishermen and guides out there who are not very happy about supporting the WDFW or its enforcement officers in the future.

I know what I think about this issue, so what are your feelings about this special use permit?

Cowlitzfisherman

Come on now...not support the WDFW because they enforce the laws???? I have heard alot of *****ing right here about how awful it is that they don't enforce enough. The Cowlitz is a prime area to enforce since it is such a zoo....You get the parking sticker with your license so DUH? put it on your vehicle if it is required...this is not an extra fee that the WDFW is screwing you over with. Let's atleast be even handed here. Personally I think fines should be doubled on every offense so that we can have more enforcement . Those of us who follow the rules should not suffer but the ones who don't should pay through the nose.

Bring on more enforcement I say. I'd have loved to seen the looks on peoples faces when they looked at thier tickets. I can only hope that they ticketed everyone that deserved it.

No I'm not for more user fees or user taxes, but we have Tim Eiman to thank for that.

The rules and regulations are there for everyone to read and understand. If for some reason you decide not to follow said rules and regulations you deserve a fine. Simple as that.

WDFW enforcement officers don't make the laws, they enforce them. So I will not bash "Gamies" for doing thier job.

As far as the way they operate the patrol boat on the river, I've seen them patrolling twice this summer, being checked once, and in my opinion they were as safe or safer than a lot of the "sled jockeys" out there.

it seems to me that if you are fishing with a guide you have to have a fishing license and you get a special use permit with it so if you get a ticket for not displaying it it is you fault.

I second that of larryb

You buy a license and you get one of them permit

I happened to be floating the Cow on Saturday and saw the task force in action, they did very well. The only part that surprised me was the fact that two of the sheriff's deputies were riding around in polaris type sea doos. They were quite curtious and very safe I didn't see any behavior on their part that would cause concern. Kudos for the good work out there..

My opinion, WDFW likes doing the fun busts i.e., sting operations by boat; oh did I mention a brand new Almar boat. I am all for enforcement by the way, however the way they do it gives you a sour taste for WDFW, my buddy was on the Cow guiding 4 clients and got turned inside out, he was totally legal after a 15 minute delay. They had him throw all of his fish (7) on the deck so they could check for clips, all legal fish. This is the best part of the story - THEY TOLD HIM HE ONLY HAD 1 FISH TO GO FOR HIS CLIENTS LIMITS! GEE LAST TIME I CHECKED THERE WAS A 3 FISH PER PERSON LIMIT ON THE COW!
Next case in point, October 2002 while I was fishing clients for Coho in lower Cow, there was 6 Jr. High boys snagging and keeping everything they caught even the BLACK BOOTS, I yelled over and asked why they were snagging and keeping these fish, there response "MR. xxx at the C&C Market pays us a $1.00 a pound even for the dark ones head and all.
I called the WDFW Region 5 and immediately reported this, I was told they would get back with me to sign the complaint and would look into this. In December I went to WDFW Olympia office to pay for my 2003 Guide Licenses, while there I thought I would follow up, since they never returned my call. Guess what they could not find the report, so I filled out a report and signed it, at the North of Falcon meeting at SeaTac I talked to the head enforcement officer for Region 5 and he had NO Clue about this violation, and he took my phone number and said that he would follow up on this. To this day I have not yet heard a word on this. I don't think WDFW could have had an easier major violation to do a Sting on than this.
I am convinced they justify sting operations just to get bigger and faster boats and vehicles.

For those of you that know nothing about guiding or taking people out fishing that are from another state;

Just to set the record straight, for the guys that have friends from out of state that may come here to fish with you or if you have recommended them to have a fishing guide take them fishing, please try to member this; a very large percent of these people, or clients spend lots of "Big bucks" here locally. For many small river communities these fishermen are their life blood. When these people purchase their "2 day none resident fishing licenses", they do not know, nor are they usually ever told that they are required by law, to purchase a "Vehicle Use Permit" along with there none resident fishing license. 99% of the time they are NOT told by the people who sell them the 2 day fishing licenses that they must also purchase the Vehicle Use Permit if they intend to be parking along a boat ramp or WDFW river use parking area! This is really kind of an "entrapment" if you ask me! As just one example, both the Blue Creek and the Barrier dam boat ramp and parking lots are privately owned by Tacoma Power. You are not required to have a "Vehicle Use Permit" to park, fish or lunch a boat at either of these 2 public fishing areas.

That means that if a guy lunched his drift boat at Blue Creek, he would not be required to show that he had purchased the special permit. Now he takes his buddies rig down to the next boat ramp which would be the "mission boat ramp" and drops off his car so that he can run back and pick up the other guys rigs with the boat trailer when they have finished their drift.

When they get done fishing that day and they pull in to the ramp to run back and get there rig with the trailer . . . they are now welcomed to Washington with $66 ticket on his windshield! That's a bunch of crap in my opinion!

Most everyone who is a resident here already knows that he needs to show his yellow use permit sticker in his vehicle! Say what you may, but it’s a stinking trap in my view for the poor guy who comes to this state to fish!

But then again, for some of you, you can never get enough bureaucratic laws and rules can you!

I am not saying that they were right or wrong, but some of you need to get off your high horses and put yourself in their shoes! It could easily happen to you someday if you were going fishing in some other state!

So grandpa you next time you make statements like;

[ Please try to think twice!


Cowlitzfisherman

Saturday afternoon they were truly out in force. One of their boats ended up on the bank just above the cedar snag at the upper end of ethel bar.

Going back to camp, and saw a gatoraid bottle and a ball cap floating down river about the middle of Ethel/brim bar. A couple of guys were waving at us from the upper end of the hole. Wew hoped we didn't see a body and skooted up stream. The wildlife guys were just getting up the bank, soaked to the bone shivering and shoeless. We offered them a ride down to BC, but they wanted nothing to do with a boat.

Apparently they came screaming down through the head of the hole, saw the cedar tree, somehow hooked the boat up and were thrown out. The boat ended up 90% out of the water with the big motor completely covered up a 60% incline.

We went back down that evening to show the girls and it was gone. Looks like the towed it up the bank.

Where did I just hear someone say;


Good thing no one got hurt....well maybe their pride!

Cowlitzfisherman

Writing vehicle use permit tickets at a river launch sounds lame to me. What really is cheesy though is using up the already spread to thin enforcement personell to concentrate on a frickin hatchery circus. More evidince that the fish and game doesnt care about **** except for easy money. Sure bust the small guy for no permit posted but leave the illegal fish snagger sellers / buyers continue uninterupted.

I think that some of the guides can join in on taking the blame here.Only because they have clients meeting them at the launch.Most fish hardly at all.Or are corporate guests etc.They have no knowledge of the permit.(back to the liscensing agent)The guide should advise his clients beforehand if he is using a launch where the permit is necessary.Or agree to pick them up at a point where its not necessary.
Those people that buy a regular liscense have no excuse in my book.

CFM,

You're right, most of the people I've bought licenses from have no clue what's going on, and I had no idea that you don't get a parking pass for a two day license. People come from out of state to spend money here and F&W won't let them park in one of these lots for a day or two? Doesn't make sense to me and seems pretty cheap on the state's part.

But be that as it may, there is a large red and white sign at the Mission ramp stating that a parking permit is required and what the fine is for not having one. (although I haven't been there for a while, so I'll have to assume it's still there). I would think that clients would question their guide about this. Unfortunately, you can't count on the license vendors to tell people this stuff, so wouldn't the guide's be at least partially responsibility to inform clients before heading down?

That parking permit is ridiculous. The Mission Bar is a public place, we all pay taxes to the state government in some form or another. Not all people who use river access parking are fishing, but there's no doubt they are tax payers for sure. I've seen quite a few folks down at the Mission just relaxing and spending an evening on the river. Since most of the Cowlitz is private property, alot of folks can only get to the river at the public boat launches. You shouldn't have to show that permit, if they want to check to see if you are a legal fishermen, they can check your damn fishing license.

Am I the only one missing something here?

The WDFW does not make the laws. Nor will they ever. Their job is to enforce the laws that were passed by the Washington State legislature and signed by the Gov.

The vehicle permit idea came about because virtually all State operated fishing access areas were bought and paid for with either fishing license dollars or excise taxes paid on fishing equipment. Therefore, the angling pubic (us) paid for those launches. But other members of the public were using them without paying for them (kayakers, boaters, etc). The Legislature thought those folks should support the construction and upkeep of those facilities, as we do. Therefore, anglers get a free permit with their fishing license while others need to pay their fair share thru a vehicle permit.

It's wrong if non-residents are not informed about this requirement when they purchase a daily license. They need to know the rules. When I go to another State to fish, I want to know what is required so I can stay within the bounds of the laws and regs. I don't want to be known as an out-of-staters who can't follow the rules.

In any event, let's lay off the WDFW for enforcing the rules. It may be fair to critize them for their high profile tactics, which appear to have taken place on the Cowlitz; but their job is to enforce the laws as written, not to question the existence or appropriateness of the regs. Even if we don't always agree with them.

But don't count me in that crowd. I think the vehicle use permit is a good idea, although I admit the fine is a bit steep..........

Your damn right coho, we paid for it so why the hell are they writing us tickets. The difference between a fishin rig and trailer is pretty obvious isnt it? why dont they write warnings to the rigs that are obviouly fishing.

My brother came down to the Cowlitz for his first steelhead trip from my sled. He didn't have a license, so went up to the barrier dam store. He bought a 2 day and got the vehicle permit with it.

Didn't ask about out of state, by I am going to assume you would get one with that as well.

The other trick these guys are pulling is to hang out in a small cut or back eddy ( like the ones above and below the cabin hole), and wait for a boat to net a fish. As soon as a rod goes back in the water they pounce on them. Writing tickets for not punching fish. I only had to see it once, and I started pulling my punchcard out and waving at them as I punched my fish so they wouldn't waste mt time.

cohoangler

Are you really serious?

Do you really think that WDFW didn't "promote" this Vehicle Use Permit?

You said;

What about the guy who just goes hunting and doesn't go fishing! It is my understanding that these areas were developed from taxed generated from both hunting and fishing sales, is that not correct?

You say;

That sound really good, buy do you really think that someone from out of state is going to sit down and read all 128 pages of the fishing regulations just to go fishing at one river for that day? Even IF they did read them, do you think that they would realize that the Vehicle Use permit was not already included in special 2 day license?

It sounds like you would even support putting up parking meters on every "pull- off" on our state highways too, just because they were build with state funds! Where is Arnold (the terminator) when we need him?

There are lots of laws that are on our states books that are not being enforced by our officers of the law. I guess it's just an easy way for WDFW enforcement to make money writing $66 parking tickets.

In my opinion, this was a very chicken thing for the WDFW to do. Well, I guess they do need all that extra fine money now, so that they can pay for the boat that they just crashed and screwed up! Well I guess things to go around after all for the good deeds that one does!

Cowlitzfisherman

RK43

I just called the authorized WDFW license dealer here in Toledo and asked them if a Vehicle Use Permits comes with the 2 day none resident fishing license. Her answer was a big NO! It does not come with the special 2 day permit.

Cowlitzfisherman