Timberman-
Attempting to manage a business is way different than this. How could a list of thousands of educational assistants/teachers/administrators have any importance to you as a member of the general public? You cant make any decisions based on this information, yet as a business owner you could. Ok, I dont like Locke and I think he make too much money... what can I do with that information? not vote for him? big deal, I still end up chipping in my nickle towards his salary... I'm willing to bet that Bill Gates doesn't get that detailed information on all those he employs, nor would he want it. A summary of costs for all his employees is more managable... And he doesn't employ near as many people as you do timberman!

please read on below

CFM- I read all three... I'll be up way late finishing stuff now, but felt it was only fair to try and see your side. I have to be honest with you, not much as changed. I already understood the intent when we started the debate. Its a little different perspective when its your information out there. What possible importance could my salary have to any of you? Some think we make too little, some too much... either way there is nothing you can do with this information. If I am failing to see an application for this please clue me in. I really dont have a problem with people knowing how much we make in general. A state salary schedule for teachers is available for that. This item gives you a range of teacher salaries from first year teachers with only a bachelors degree, to a 20 veteran with a masters degree and 90 credits. Even include a teacher count and total amount spent district by district... more than enough information to make sure the money is spent correctly. (probably more readable than thousands of names and salaries too.) Once you attach the name to the exact salary, I think the intent of the code is lost. It teeters on invasion of privacy, of course they included a sheild for responsibility in case this information does cause harm (such as the identity theft example) ya gotta love the government! It was also easy to see that the code was written without mass publication in mind. (They spoke a ton about who was responsible for the paper costs, copying procedures etc...) I dont think an upload to a website was what they had in mind. I do however feel that elected or appointed positions should fall under tighter scrutiny. Its a double edged sword really, disclosure to protect the people yet it puts other people at risk. (even if you think the risk is minimal, its still there as I described earlier...and $1500 wasnt minimal for my budget!) I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I see my representative from time to time at school functions and will bring it up with him to get his feeling about it.

I wanted to address something you said in your last post about accountablity to those I serve. I fully believe i'm accountable to the parents and students I teach. But accountable for what i teach, and to some extent how I teach it. I'm accountable for how I spend school funds, or grants I earn. I'm even more accountable for a childs learning than their parents are... sad as it is. But opening my checkbook to the public is a little much. Especially to everyone in the world (literally) to see. I think that is way more than the law intended.

I'm tired and I'm not sure this is making sense so I'll summarize in one more line... ( I'm not taking responsibility for grammatical errors either!)

The intent of the law could be easily upheld without making the information so personal.

End of Elkrun's thesis ... back to work!

Hey cowlitzfisherman,

looks like you made some people feel uncomfortable. I think maybe they feel a little more paranoid about taking that extended lunch break now huh? Or maybe they dont feel there actually worth what they are being paid?
sheesh, Game Wardens making over 4000 dollars a month to write tickets to people using barbed hooks or snagging hoodsport chums, while not putting in a little extra effort to catch people who are endangering our native fish.

You ever hear the joke about how many people it takes for the government to put somebody on fire watch?

I make about $20.52 after taxes which go to pay there wages and help illegal aliens get drivers licenses.

Some people are actually worth what they get paid, but there is alot of waste.

Exposing your privacy?

Here are a few thoughts:
1) Equifax
2) Experian
3) Trans Union

And how many of you privacy buffs furnish
your shopping habits to a grocers database?

Give us a break here!

Hey micro what do you do for a living?

County employ?????do not work too hard today!

Those are my hard earned tax dollars at work correct.I have seen you guys slaving away.What a joke.

If the babys havent noticed yet the link was removed yesterday morning.

CFM,
Thanks again for that info. Good thing I bookmarked it before it was removed that gave me time to send it off to some friends. Some of which are on the list and thought it was cool (they got to look up what there bosses make). I was surpriased that I even got a thanks for the link from Tim Eyeman's group when I sent it there.

All you cry babies about state and government employees need to stop posting on this board and go back to work pay more taxes cuz I need a raise...

Your boss was thinking about giving you one...........but then he found out you are spending time on the internet instead of working. :p

KIDDING

Mods - Thanks for removing the link.

I have no problem with what most of you are saying. I would gladly disclose my pay, my hours, my job classification, and even my work logs so all my "bosses" out there can see that they're getting their money's worth. But why do you need my name attached to it?

That's really my only complaint - it is a violation of my privacy.

Signed,
Office Assistant Senior
$2249.00 a month

Elkrun

Are you guys happy now!

Apparently you guys whined enough to Jerry to get him to pull off the website link. I guess he had his reasons, but one would wonder why he waited for over 100 posts before he did it (thanks for waiting Jerry). No one really got that excited except you and goose, so one wonders what the big deal was, especially since that website as been broadcasted daily on the local radio talk shows.

Since you have spent quite a bit of time in your last post trying to convince us that we "the public" have no business in knowing exactly what each state employee makes, I think it's only fair to give you a reply back. Please do not take this reply personally against you or you occupation. But since you have gone into such detail in describing why a "teachers" job salary shouldn't be made "public", I feel compelled to use that occupation as my example. Remember, it's nothing personal!

Let's talk about property taxes as an example, and how special school "levies" affect our rights to "need to know" about school employees and their salary. Since each school "district" directly places special tax burdens (levies) on each property owner, and sets the amount of that "extra tax" that they must pay, shouldn't the people who that burden has been placed upon have the right to know exactly who, and what they are paying these "extra" taxes to and for? I am not talking about the "general monies" that the all school district gets per student from the state funds; I am only talking about the special extra taxes (levies) that are placed upon us by the school district itself for there own "extra needs".

Many, if not most of these funds are used to hire or pay their staff (public employees) and special teachers wages for the districts. Shouldn't the person who has to pay these "special" taxes be able to know exactly who, why and how much he has to pay each person that he has to pay these "special" taxes to?

How do you know if the money was needed for education or just for the teacher's salaries if you are not entitled to see what each individual teacher's wages are? Remembered, these are "special taxes" that others are not being asked to pay; so why not see exactly what you are paying each teacher or staff member in your school district to do? Then if you feel that you are paying them too much individually, you do not have to vote in a proposed school levy (that really gives the teachers heart burn!). I know what you're going to say already about how under funded schools are but you asked for examples and now you got one! How on earth would we tax payer know if our districts need more money for salaries if we can not see exactly what we are actually paying each employee?

You know as well as I do, that all levy money goes into the schools "general funds" and then the district spends it in the way that they (our employees) feel fit to do. So if you can not check on each teacher or state worker salary, how on earth would you known what the district actually had spent your tax money on?

After reading all of your continual concerns about school districts, you got me worried! I went to the website that Jerry has now removed and checked up on my own school district. I checked on one of the teachers in our area that was "very active" during the last levy request. His son even wrote a bunch of letters to the local newspaper whining that the teachers didn't make enough money, and that teachers needed this "extra" money to increase the teacher to student ratio (all in the mane of the kids…you know). Well, one might think that "his" parents were hard pushed for funds, and think "maybe the teachers do need that raise" and past the levy without really even knowing what each teacher really makes.

So thanks to you elkrun, I just looked up that teachers salary on the site that Jerry has now pulled, and it said that he makes $58,000, plus he's also a coach and make another 3-4 thousand more extra each year doing that. So that tells me we are now paying him around $62, 000 a year. Now that's not to bad of wages for a high school teacher who's working in a very small rural school district like ours, plus he gets all summer off! After that I thought; well, he makes that much, and his wife is a teacher at a smaller neighboring school district, what is there combine salary as "public employees"? So I attempted to look up her name at that school district. I can't find here name! What's going on here? I know that she works there, so I called my neighbor and got her maiden name. So now I looked under her maiden name and "presto" up it comes! Now I see that she is making $54,000 a year. Combined they are making well over $116,000 a year and that not even including the huge benefit package that teacher get and the 3 months off!

So next time around, when they ask me to cough up another $260 for their school levy from my $15,000 income, to pay them for more raises when there making $116,000, you can pretty well figure out what my replay will be!

So that's my example why the website that Jerry has now removed was so darn important to the public! It just taught me something that I didn't know before! You got state workers (employee) who are using two different names for what every the reasons may be making well over $116,000 for working only 9 mouths of the year. If nothing else elkrun, I want to thank you for bringing this "teacher issue" to my attention. It's really too bad that you guys got Jerry to pull that website. Hopefully, enough people have done like DUROBOAT15 has done and bookmarked that website, and will be able to check up on there "local employees" just like I have done.

Thanks again for your tip on the teacher issue!!

Cowlitzfisherman

CFM,
Boy I got sucked in by the old poor under paid teachers in my district too. And I think I was in shock to see the truth. It to has changed the way I will vote in the future for sure.
I will say the the teachers have a real smart union. Keep telling the public what a first year teacher makes but dont bring up what the majority makes. And did you get a load of what the principals make. Its almost as if the public is getting robbed.
The funniest thing about this whole teacher thing is I wouldnt have even looked at that part of the web site had it not been for all the . It made me think they had something to hide for sure.

cfm,

Did you find out how long these two have been teaching? While it looks like they make a pretty decent living, I'm not sure their wages are out of line.

Dan

I don't know how long they have been teaching, but he has probably been teaching for 8 or 10 years. But how many guys or gals do you know that make $62,000 a year with great benefits, all paid holidays and vacation days and then get the entire summer off to do whatever they want to do!

Should a person get paid high wages just becuase they do the same job all of their life? Doesn't everyone have to work anyway? So what would be the difference how long you worked?

That could be a whole nother thread!

Not to shabby for a nine month salary I would say!

Cowlitzfisherman

Plus weekends off
Plus only having to work day shift
Plus week long breaks during the 9 months

Apparently you guys whined enough to Jerry to get him to pull off the website link
Nobody whined to me CFM

I went to the website that Jerry has now removed

I just looked up that teachers salary on the site that Jerry has now pulled

So that's my example why the website that Jerry has now removed

That's 4 times in your post CFM that you mentioned me removing the address. I had concluded after reading ALL the replies and weighing ALL answers that the web address was in poor taste. Anybody that wants the address I'm sure can email you and you would gladly send them the info.

Thanks for reminding me DUROBOAT15!

I forgot to mention the other 2 or mores weeks off like Christmas Vacation, and Easter Vacation week!

Not bad at all!

Cowlitzfisherman

cfm,

Well, it IS standard practice to earn more as your years of expereince grow. Anybody who is still working for the same wages they were 10 years ago is either lazy or a fool.

I know that teachers only work full-time 9 months out of the year, but they hardly work 9-5 during those months. Overworked? No, but I doubt it's as easy as many make it out to be.

The funny thing is, nobody complains about what a CEO makes..........yet you pay THEIR salary too. Not in taxes, but you pay it if you buy stuff from them. $62,000/year can be justified as far as I'm concerned but how do you justify being paid a million dollar bonus when your company's workforce had been decimated by layoffs?
It's a little different, because you CAN choose not to buy items from such a company, but you HAVE to pay taxes.......but it's similar.

Thoughts?

You know Jerry,

After reading what a lot of these "public employees" are now making, it left a pretty "bad taste" in a lot of our mouths also!

Sorry about those taste buds Jerry


Cowlitzfisherman

"The funny thing is, nobody complains about what a CEO makes.........."

That sure isn't what I have been hearing on the news for the past year!

Tell that one to all the stock holders that took it in shorts!

You said;"... but you HAVE to pay taxes.......but it's similar." Dan that's not really true! If your old enough and don't make over a certain amount, you can get out of paying special school levy taxes. That's not fair either, because you then put the tax burden onto your neighbor just because they may be younger and can't qualify for the same exemption!

Go figure!


Cowlitzfisherman

cfm,

I'm curious about this exemption from levies......can you elaborate a little?

Sure you can avoid paying taxes......all you have to do is live in poverty. Not my cup of tea, though.

CFM,
Im not joking when I say this. But you should run for public office of some kind. This state is in dire need of someone with your common sense and understanding of state issues.
But I understand why you wouldnt. Haveing to work with the people we have in office now could end up putting someone in an early grave. But you could count on my vote for sure!!