Global, as an assistant network addmin I can tell you that ALL of the info needed for idenity theft is right there on the net. All you need is the time and knowledge to get it. That is once you have decided it would be worth your time. And that is why I don't like this thread.

And CFM if you really knew how it worked and had ever saw the after effects you would know it was not parinoia.

Enough said on this.

What a senseless thread.

With age comes wisdom, or is that bitterness?

CFM, you've provided some great info over time. Sure would like to see you take the high road here.

PD

CFM - I try my best to keep my life private. I don't think it's anyone's business how much I make, except my supervisor. This feels invasive to me, and I resent that my private information is out there for the world to see. And I think the majority of folks feel the same way.

You stated, "Looks like about 50% of the posts on this thread think that the public jobs and salaries ought to be made public information." Well, it already is.

Job classifications and their various salaries are available for the world to see on the Department of Personnel web site (http://hr.dop.wa.gov/statejobs/jobs.htm).

So, if the jobs and salaries are already listed, why do you need the names?


Hey, let's start a new thread - "What do you do, and how much do you make?" How many folks would post the whole truth on that thread?

This really is a tasteless thread, and I think it should be deleted.

CFM, you are usually working towards a good cause - You went the other direction this time, in my opinion.

I'm not a state welfare case and I don't have a private employer. I sit on my butt, go fishing or otherwise do basically anything else I want to do all day and I pay myself a small pittance of about 16,000.00 annually to do it. If anyone cares to help me in my impoverished lifestyle… I accept donations… I'll also fish for food.

Dang. I am underpaid compared to my peers! I need a raise.

PS. State employee salaries have always been public record. Anyone working for the state should know that.

Don't slap CFM around for just posting a web site. Regardless of his whacky views (just kidding), he didn't do anything here. Seeing how WDFW employees are on the list, this seems appropriate as a "fishing related" discusssion, even if some of you feel threatened, or whatever it is you're feeling.

Don't like it? Either don't work for the state, or get the laws changed to protect your privacy.

PPS. The Norwalk Virus sucks. I recommend that you do not get it. My wife and baby have had it since Friday. Still at home nursing the sick and wounded.

Parker
Puke & Diarreah Pro Staff

Like Parker and others have said, what's the big deal?

All this thread was intended to do was to show this board where all the WDFW funds are going. It gave you the opportunity for yourself, to see if a WDFW employee on the east side is making more then the same WDFW employee on the west side. So what's the big deal? It allows you to very quickly add up all the wages and then you can deduct that figure from what the Gov. gives to WDFW and you can find out how much has gone to the fish and game and how much has gone other such things as untold settlements to groups i.e., WT. The smart guys will be able to apply this information and make good use of it (maybe that's what a few of you are so worried about)

It allows you to see how many of each class or definition of job classes in WDFW are being paid what, and then you can decide if that group or classification of workers i.e., biologist, enforcement or whatever the position is, needs to be increased or decreased. All it was supposed to do was increase your ability to debate many of the issues that are communally brought onto this board.

But oh no, someone always has to make it personal and start the name calling and then attempt to degrade the person and rant on about some other tantrum. You get moderators from other boards making personal attacks against people solely because his name just happens to be shown on the WDFW list. No one even knows who the hell he is, but yet he continues to make personal attacks to satisfy his own anger.

You get school teachers going goofy about some threat of identity scams that some people get caught up in just because they failed to take the proper safe guards to protect themselves and then they want to blame me for making people aware of the site (too funny). I am amazed that someone has not yet blamed me for everything that goes bad on the internet or in their lifes!

Just remember one thing, it is "you" that puts that little arrow on the screen and pushes that little button on your mouse that got you to that site! So what did you expect to see when you got there? If you’re a state employee, you been given classes or at the very least, you had been told that all of your income records are the property of the public, and are public. Did you listen to what you were told?

And just to make you guys even more paranoid then you already are (and that's really going to be hard to do)I heard the Website advertise by our local radio station (KELA) on "lets talk about it" with an attorney who hosts the talk show. He even thought that it was a "great site" and "recommends that everyone" better take a look and see what we are paying each and every one of our state employees! Now you know about all "us people" down south here, you know….those ones that have "whacky" views are going to figure out how we can all "get you"

So maybe you guys should give this thread a rest, and call up the talk show and tell the host of it (the attorney) your sad stories for awhile How much do you want to bet that you will get pretty much the same response from him as you have from me?

You know, maybe one of them there "identity thieves" will want to come and steel my identity. . .you think

There is no hiigh road or low road... It's just a road that we have built and we need to know what the cost was for each inch of the way!

PS sorry to hear that your love ones are sick Parker

Cowlitzfisherman

Then I want to know what everyone else in the world makes! And don't give me that "you chose to work there" crap - Maybe I'm just doing what I need to do for me and mine, but that doesn't mean having my private life broadcast to everyone is "my choice".

Just the kind of world we need, a world with no privacy.

CFM for Ayatollah!!

Geez CFM, nothing like pissing a few people off.

I don't get it. I wouldn't have posted that site for all to see just simply because I know that several people on this board work for the government and that it might make them uncomfortable. Just because you don't perceive this as risky, doesn't mean you should make that decision for others, especiallly members this board who offer you information, a seat on their boat, etc. when you need it.

Your thread will not lead to a better/more efficient government, and more importantly, will make it difficult for many PP board members to take you seriously in the future.

You pride yourself in saying it like it is, but make sure you think before you talk, or post for that madder. My impression on this thread is you just wanted to stir the pot rather than create some sort of grass roots movement to better government.

Requests to the Gov't for information on specific salaries, or whatever else one can think of, creates a lot of work for the agency and wastes even more of our tax payers dollars. And in the end what do they get? It should be a request that is made only if one really has a use for the information.

Every Fed/State/County and local agency has their own pay scale and benefit package, so blanket statements made about government workers are never accurate.

Glowball - Government agencies, in my experience, take the time to follow all State and Federal rules when performing Public Works type job. Occasionaly, and way more than is acceptable, private sector employers put the environment or employees lives on the line to get a job done more quickly - risking life/environment in order to turn a bigger profit.
Don't jump to conclusions based on a snapshot of what you see when driving down the road.

I don't go to a fishing web site to gather info on politics, and I would not be able to sleep at night if I knew that the guy/gal that shared the right leader length, or fishing report for their area felt as uncomfortable as you made elkrun and others feel.

Elkrun sure doesn't need me to speak for him, but that example was the firs to come to mind.

Jeff Dodd

You couldn't be more right!

You said;" Requests to the Gov't for information on specific salaries, or whatever else one can think of, creates a lot of work for the agency and wastes even more of our tax payers dollars. And in the end what do they get? It should be a request that is made only if one really has a use for the information."

That is exactly what this site had done! Think of all the money that this site has saved our government! Now all of those figures are posted on one single site that everyone can get off the internet, and we don't have interrupt these agencies now to ask them for the same information that is on that site. Now that is truly a bargain for the tax payers!

Like you said; "Every Fed/State/County and local agency has their own pay scale and benefit package, so blanket statements made about government workers are never accurate."

What more can I say! You said it all! And thanks for stating it that way, so well!

Thanks Jeff be being very open and honest with your post.


Aunty

You’re a pretty smart lady, so calm down!

But you know what's going on here, as well as anyone does. You're seeing a "peaking order" trying to be set up by some members who think that their peck… is bigger and better!

Girls are supposed to know and understand about those kinds of things It all works out in the end!

These are just the kind of things that us men need to do It will all blow over soon, and we will be pecking at each other again soon. All threads take there course, and this one is no different. Once everyone cools down, and gets their 10 cents worth in, they will be gripping again that the board is just too quite!

It's really all do to the "pressure" that "you gals" put on us guys! It will all be over soon …and then what? You can only talk and gripe so much about "snagging" and then you got to go somewhere else. All wounds will heal and new wounds will fester! I am looking forward to the big group meeting agian so that I can take all of everyone's built up flack!


Cowlitzfisherman

To quote Scott McNealy, CEO of Sun Microsystems:

"You have zero privacy anyway. Get over it."

As much as I would like to be idealistic about it, it's the truth.

Public disclosure never meant being posted on the street corner to be played with like it is here.

You say;"Public disclosure never meant being posted on the street corner to be played with like it is here."

Well, why then don't you tell how it was really meant to be used! Can you give us just a little bit of history why our legislators have made it the way that it is now? Couldn't be the will of the people, now could it? No… that couldn't be it!

Please tell us why "we" have passed these laws then tlCLEO! Is everyone else wrong and that's why you feel that a few disgruntled state employees are right? According to your way of thinking….that must be it!!

Or it it just "becuase"?


Cowlitzfisherman

WOW, People are getting pissed for people making 50 grand per year? Has anyone bought a house lately or paid for braces? Unless one lives in a trailer park thats not alot of money. The biggest ripoff hands down to me is the construction of state roads. The prevailing wage is 35 bucks per hour(minimum) that the state pays each of 4 guys to watch 1 work. These guys work for 4 or 5 months, earn 10 grand per month, then go on unemployment for the rest of the winter where the state pays them to nothing!!!! This is just my observation, I should not comment at all because I work for the REAL dark lord himself, an oil company.

Damn CFM can't you figure this out for yourself.

Most public discloser laws predate the internet and for that matter a lot of mass comunication formats by decades. And they were NOT set up by or for the will of the people. Mostly they were set up by the judical branch of the government to help them keep tabs on what was and may be going on. It was never ment to be used to broadcast over the internet to millions of people.

And if you don't think that is what you did then you should really rethink things. Just how many people read posts here that never join? I can guarantee you that you have no idea.

One last time, this thread was not a good idea!

BW

Well if you spend several hours reading "The Revised Code of Washington (RCW) : Title 40; 41 ;and 42 you may come out with a different opinion about the internet and everyone's right to view public information. I really don't know where in the world you came up with your logic on that one! Read them first and then tell me where I was wrong! I am looking forward to what you will learn and you should too!

You will find that "…mass comunication formats" really means absolutely noting on how public information is viewed or distributed. In fact, it saves the local governments tons of money, and yes it also saves trees too! No more wasting paper for information, just use your computer and save some more trees. For every tree saved, you have two more happy fish

Read, Title 40, 41, and especially Title 42 and then you can intelligently debate the use of using the internet for transferring public information. When your all done reading, lets have a quiz on what you have or have not learned fair enough? Pay real close attention to all of Title 42

I am sure that you "think" that you know what the laws say about how public information may or may not be viewed, but even you may be surprised!

The internet does not superceed state law when it comes to the Public Information Act , Title 40,41, and 42.


Cowlitzfisherman

if you want privacy you better get rid of your cell phone ,land line ,quit banking,have your power shut off,oh yea might as well quit working too. I typed a old friends name and where I last knew of him residing 20 years ago into a people finder deal on the internet and up comes his phone # and address kinda nice to talk to him again.Try typing your area code and phone # into google then take your choice of which company to use for the map to your house. You can make your life as private or not so private as you like it all depends on the choices you make

CFM,
Thanks for the chuckle. I read the reply you offered up.

You pick a couple of lines from my post, take them out of context, and then don't let up with the sarcasm - boring.

As Steve Martin once said, "You're like a Chatty Cathy doll, only you pull your own cord"

and...

"Try having a point at the end of your story, it makes it so much more enjoyable for the listener".

Of course the above comments only apply to this thread, and are ment to be in good humor:



Thanks for the fun CFM, but this game's over for me. You make light of this, but when you post personal information about board members, some won't let that go. Or as you might say, it will continue to fester. I don't imagine, as a "say it like it is" guy, that that's the reputation you are looking for.

See you on the next post, if it's fishing related that is.

I'll try this again,

I'm not saying they'll figure out who I am directly. I'm saying this kind of list is a menu for these kind of people. Identity theft doesn't mean they wear a look alike rubber mask and assume your identity convincing your mom to give them cash (although I think cfm might be thinking along that lines...) These people simply find a target. There are lots of ways they do it, but this list makes it really easy. An example if you will..

A person searches this list and picks a name, a name with a good dollar figure attached. In the case of teachers/administrators, they tend to live in or near the district they teach for. Since that is listed (maybe that should be excluded???) they do an address search in the phone book for that area. From there there is lots they can do... For one, they could simply just rob the house. Or go through the trash (one of the most common methods used to gain important numbers), or like in my case just rifle through the mailbox... When it happened to my family they intercepted a renewal visa and maxed it out in 3 days. Our bank immediately called because of all the activity and wanted to check up on it. Its lucky for us the did that because we were immediately able to get the police involved, and after a major hassle, the account was covered by visa. It isn't a nice feeling to have something like this happen.

regardless of what cfm says, I am not being paranoid. The odds of someone choosing me based on my salary are laughable. But thats not the point now is it.... Within 10 minutes I could track the address of any teacher on there unless they have an unlisted phone number. (which I do) I really didn't look elsewhere on the site except to see what they listed for me, so I dont know if it would be that easy for other state employees... This info was 2 years old based on the fact that some of the people I worked with that moved in 2001 were still listed. And by the amount of my salary... it has changed... a little.

someone earlier said, "you should have taken better precautions..." another silly statement. How can you take precautions for something you didn't know existed? The is no way for anyone to remove their names from that list. The best we can hope for is to get it changed, or convince people that just because its there doesn't mean you need to support it (What I'm attempting here...).

I often tell kids that I teach or coach, that sometimes adults make decisions simply based on their morals. My morals tell me that someones salary is there own business. My own parents would never ask me what I make! Why should every kid I teach be able to look it up in a heart beat? I know cfm will respond that it is everyones business when they are paying those salaries in taxes. Maybe so if a person is in an elected or appointed position.... I'll bet 95% of the people listed have no idea they're there.

Bottom line....

The list is wrong, both morally and numerically. Really there is no purpose for it other that to entertain nosey people who have no sense of right or wrong. Whats the plan here? someone going to break out the calculator and crunch those numbers to figure out the states budget woes? Not likely.

cfm chose to post this, yet in typical manner got pissed off when he was immediately challenged. Like I stated earlier, Its ok to have an opinion as long as it matches his... I really dont think he thought this thing all the way through. I believe the intent was to draw attention to wdfw spending. But once the $hit hit the fan, I would have had some respect for him if he simply said " man, I didn't think about that..." but he didn't, he started name-calling and ripping people. I wasn't after anything other than to get him to see a different perspective. Go back and decide for yourself who turned it into this.... But thats sort of his gig now isn't it.

To each his own I guess, but I'm done pissing in the wind here.

Any one dislike constantly yippyapping dogs as much as me? Especially one that can't reply to any questions except with more yipyap. :p Keep the yipyap up CFM as it's only your credibilty you piss on .

Good Stuff!