btf

earlier I made some what of a heated reply so I will apologize, you did get me thinkin about where our dollars are spent so all in all good topic btf I look forward to more of the same to keep the blood pressure up

Now on to the next, cfm you do get excited real quick. When you read someone's post read it all the way, I read some of these peoples post and it seems that you only get part of what they are trying to say, and then you just start jumpin their !@#$.
nuff said

For those that aren't aware, Washington is in the process of changing it's entire civil service system. The necessary laws (SHB 1268 for those interested) were passed this last session and the new civil service system will commence in 2005. My understanding is there's no fudge room on the date since it's spelled out in the legislation.

Essentially the plan is to function more like a business and less like state government. For example: the new legislation calls for "contracting out" some state jobs. Wages and benefits for employees will also be negotiated between the govenors team and individual bargaining units. Merit will also play a larger roll in layoffs and salaries. Obviously those that are "slackers" get fired or layed off first and those that "bust tail" get the bonuses just like the private sector. If folks are interested about what's going on, visit Washington's Dept of Personnel's webpage and you can learn more. Just realize that we are drifting down river and building the boat at the same time, so there will likely be questions that don't have answers yet. This is a huge undertaking and personally I think 2005 is a little ambitious, but obviously the legislature disagrees.

I'm guessing the rollout in 2005 will be a little bumpy. It will then probably take a few years to clean up the fatal flaws that got missed in the planning process and by 2008 or so things should be working fairly smoothly. Who know's, by then this discussion might just be a moot point.

Bentpole

There's always more going on then what gets posted on this board! So I can understand why you may feel the way that you do. I don't get all that excited it's just who I am… nothing more and nothing less! After you post 1000 or so posts $hit will and does happen from time to time! …and yes, I am no exception to it either


Born to Fish

That sounds like really great news! Long overdue, but still welcomed news. I bet that you're right about how long that it will take to implement it. We haven’t even seen the first law suits against it yet D: and there will be suits for sure!


Cowlitzfisherman

PS any more clues to how you are?

cfm
so if i post over a 1000 then i can join in?
I don't think so.
furthermore your post are more negative then most, hell look what you did to that guys pic with the 2 hotties you ph*&ed up the resolution and made it look like crap. take a step back and look at your history.

Bentpole-

Thank you. I know when it comes to discussing state employees ethics and pay it tends to get a little heated on both sides. I know I try like h3ll to not take it personal or start taking jabs at others, but it is hard not to sometimes. I've seen my fair share of questionable work ethics by some state employees and even went so far as to discuss it with them. I don't know if it made a difference, but it was worth a shot. In all honesty, I think the majority of state employees are hard working and dedicated employees.

Food for thought for the board:
I'm bringing this up only to illustrate a point that what you see isn't always what it seems. Several years ago I was working on a project that involved working 12 to 14 hours a day and involved a lot of travel time. I was working by myself and had finished up for the week and was driving to the office. Now me personally, I'm not accustomed to getting up to work at 2 or 3 in the morning then working 12 or 14 hours so it was taking it's toll on me. I was probably 50 or 60 miles from the office and I was so tired I couldn't drive another mile.

It took me probably 15 minutes to debate in my head what I should do. To me it was a no-brainer, but I was more concerned about what someone might say if they saw me napping in my truck then falling asleep at the wheel and killing myself or for that matter someone else. Eventually I pulled onto an old logging road out of view and proceded to nap for an hour or so (off the clock of course). Now I can imagine what a hunter would've thought if they would've seen me, but what would folks expect me to do in the same circumstance? Personally I think I made the right decision and the risk of "being caught", was justifiable. In the same situation today, if I were to keep driving and fall asleep at the wheel and kill someone, I could go to prison for involuntary manslaughter.

Again, the whole point to me bringing this up was to illustrate what you see isn't necessarily what it seems. Now I'm not trying to defend those that are "milking the system", but I am trying to point out that sometimes there are legitimate reasons for doing things that don't exactly look kosher. I'll also add that although this thread has gotten heated a few times, but I think it's actually a pretty good thread for an OT thread.

CFM its always a conspracy isn't it?

Bentpole

I really don't understand why you are attempting these personal attacks.

You are obviously one of those persons that I will not be able to "please" …ever… so that's just life!

It's kind of funny that "you" have become the self appointed spokesman for RK43!

If you had done your homework before you had started trying to put someone down ,you wouldn't being looking the way that you are looking right now! RK43 was having troubles getting his pics to post and had ask for some help from the board (you need to do your home work). I just helped him clear up an over exposed pic!

Now if RK is concerned, well that's a whole other story. Don't you find it STRANGE" that he didn't take any offence, or say anything negative to me about me helping him out with his pictures?



Cowlitzfisherman

ya i recall stating i was his self appointed spoksman
and he asked for help posting pics not mutilating them
by the way that was just one way of you steppin in and making everything peachy


bentpole for self appointed spokesmen
send your votes to cfm.com

Gooose

Don't you WDFW guys ever change that same old punch line?

I find it funny that you guys pulled this thread from "your other site" and then you got the gonads to come over to Bob's site and try to put everyone down with your same old "conspiracy" crap that you use all the time. You guys are just too funny!


Cowlitzfisherman

Goose and Bent Pole:

My daddy taught me never to argue with fools or drunks. Perhaps words to the wise.

s.c.
good lesson t.y. i will follow dads advice

That's very good advice kids1

But remember also what you're mommy said to you all about looking into the mirror… What you see is what you are!

Cowlitzfisherman

Hey CFM
I'm going fishing this afternoon. What are you up to old friend?

This has been an interesting discussion, but I for one, find it a bit disturbing that this information is available.

I have less of an issue with elected officials salaries, like senators, representatives, etc, because they are pretty much standard across the board, and I would be concerned if they were cutting everyone else's funds, but increasing their of paychecks.

I believe that the everyday state worker should have the same right to privacy as I do as to what my salary is, or their's. I will not be visiting this site, out of respect for the privacy of these state employees. I have worked for certain employers where I actually signed a contract stating that I would not divulge my salary, or the salary of others if I found out, and that I faced termination if I violated this.

As for some other site pulling that post, I agree wholeheartedly with that decision, as I am sure a number of others here would agree that a post like this has no place on this board.

I'm not picking a fight with you Bob, just respectfully stating my difference of opinion. It might be nice if you rethought your actions, and edited your post, disabling a link to that website, or deleting this topic completely. If you decide not to then I guess it is your perogative.

Take care,

Andy

i`d call the whole group of hatchery bio`s into my office and tell them that they are all going to have to payback the money that washington trout has won in its lawsuits over hatcherys, then i would tell them that the next time washington trout sues and wins a dime over hatchery issues that the whole group is fired.

It's kind of funny that we seem to begrudge anyone who works for the government if they drive too nice a car or make above minimum wage. Every discussion I have ever heard on this subject is similar in that no federal or state or city employee works for their salary and they have air conditioning in their car which is bullsh$$t!!!! They have too expensive of a lunch or whatever. KInd of like ....."Oh MAN did you see Billy Bob? That sonuvabit##!! He was having a steak for dinner!" He works for WDFW!!! He should be eating pig vomit through a straw."

Now with that said I would also like to say that there are about twice the government employees on payrolls than is necessary. So fire the dumm aZZes and keep the good ones and run the ship more efficiently. Pay what the market requires for the position and give normal benefits . Run the agencies like the rest of us in business have to ..lean and mean.

not too many years ago hatchery workers' pay was so low they qualified for food stamps...the pay is better now because of union bargaining but they gave up some things for it...for example you can't strike.. also they're non-scheduled employees which means you get no overtime unless you work over 40 hours a week. so you can be worked 40 hours straight with no overtime if the boss is mad at you...you're also forced to pull standby,if you live on station you can't leave the hatchery to live a life for a week to ten days at a time..usually twice a month...so no running to the store or seeing a movie or going to a kid's game...essentially you're working 24-hours a day for a week+...and you only get 1.00 an hour for this time..if you live off station you have to carry a pager 24 hours a day and make sure you're within 30 minutes of the hatchery at all times in case there's an alarm...of course during this weekly stand by you can drink NO alcohol..not even one beer or you get written up..as far as lazy workers go...try working at hoodsport or cowlitz and see how fun it is to work 10 thousand fish day after day for months on end while freezing your ass off....or sling a couple thousand pounds of feed every day...
..and then there are the people that piss on you're truck(literally) or flatten your tires when you stop to eat somewhere because you're one of those 'lazy overpaid fish and wildlife employees'...

YOu know what CFM, I was not going to bother with this but I just could not let it go.

There are secritaries, Janitors, teachers, bus drivers etc that work for the state. They in no way deserved to be included on that list. They just go about thier lives. The reason your ill advised post was removed from the other board was because it made it just a little easier for idenity thieft.

I have to ask if you gave that even a passing thought?

Are you also in favor of web sites with home addresses and phone numbers of police officers?

It is all the same thing, it serves no real purpose dispite what you may think. The idea that you as a tax payer being a state workers boss is old and just not valid. Just in case you are not sure, this is a Republic. And in a Republic we elect officials. AND they hire people to run the day to day details. And they don't really work for you and me dispite what you may think.

I agree with Dogfish this should be closed or the link disabled.

Andy

I do respect your opinion and I like the way that you have addressed this issue. With that being said, I must say in all truthfulness that I will not delete this web site as a reference or my thread.

And this is the main reason why I will not delete it; I firmly believe that any person who works for a "private" party is truly entitled to have full protection on who knows what his income may be. The only persons who should have that information are his employer, or the person who pays the person their salary. Likewise, when a person is a state employee, he should abide by the same rule.

Now this is where some people, especially the people that work or have very close friends may differ. But this the reality; we "the people" are these peoples employers and "we the people" are entitled to see exactly what "we" are paying each and every one of "our" employees. I known that you do not, and will not fill this way, buy I believe there are more that do fell this way then those who don't. That is exactly why EVERY state employee has been told that everything they do or say unless it is attorney privileged information, is always public information.

Since you are such a good supporter of our "laws" I an a little surprised that you have taken such a stand on this issue. The law specifically states that we are entitled to know and have such information. That is why I do not understand your current position on this issue, since you always support whatever the law says is legal.

Am I wrong?

It really makes sense if you truly understand that "we" are the "states" employees' employer. There is no other legal way that one can say it, other then what I have said.

I have no bones to pick with anyone personally who works for WDFW! Just ask anyone who knows me there! What ever I may say here, I have said it to them in front of their face. So this was not ever meant to be get a "get even" with any WDFW employee. It was only meant to give "the people" their legal right to know what, and who they are paying "their" employee.

The same people will continue to make stupid personal attacks to prove their own point of views, but that just make them look even lower in others eyes. I have attempted not do that, but being human, I sometimes fail.

So Andy, thanks for taking the time to write a very well written disagreeing point without getting personal like a few others have done. With that being said, I have received permission form the Web master of the site to post their entire email to me. Maybe some of you can understand why they have maintained this site and stop making personal attacks on others! That is my hope anyways, so here it is:
" Cowlitzfisherman,

My name is Louis bloom, the "webmaster" of the Washington state employees salaries site. Here's some of my thoughts on the outdoor forum about state salaries.

I'm amazed at the amount of traffic at these forums. My website visits are usually around 500 people on weekdays and 200 on weekends. There were a minimum of 250 extra visits on Friday and 200 extra on Saturday, because of the outdoor forum.

I started the salaries list in 1996, as an "oddball public service" hobby. I had a close relative that was fired from his Washington state dshs job after he whistleblew about his boss hiring his mistress. I figure that publishing the names and salaries of public employees might reduce the cronyism and nepotism in the hiring and promoting of government employees.

I think that government provides a fairer, cheaper, and better service than private deregulated businesses will. I think most public employees are well compensated (except beginning teachers), and i don't believe comparable private sector jobs are available to public employees.

I feel that one of the best things about our governments, (local, state, federal) is the freedom of information laws. I'm amazed that my government responds to these requests, even though it may not like the information to be public.

I'll request the Tacoma PUD salary list, with the next batch of freedom of information requests I send out.

You can add any or all of my comments to the outdoor forum. I try to be open and above board about who I am. People will throw back any perceived double standard or hypocrisies, and they should.

Louis Bloom
manaco@whidbey.net"

This truly is a person who I can respect!

Cowlitzfisherman

Tacky thread....

In a time where identity theft is a common occurance, I really dont appreciate having my wages posted. And as far as the lame a$$ comment "we pay your wages...." Keep your damn nickle. I shop at Safeway yet I dont ask to see the checkout persons pay stub even though I help pay their wages... Next time I go to dinner shall I demand to know what the waitress makes? (incidentally, I'll give her more money than any one person in this state gives me...)

I think people should mind their own damn business.