Born to fish

You got to give it a space from your last word,, and then do the thing! Then you hit the Preview Post box….and what you see is what you get!

Born to fish, don't forget that "other" small business that you are also running at the same time Sounds like your making your ends meet.

Cowlitzfisherman

Cowlitz-

Thanks. Ends are meeting fine (most of the time) I just wish there was more like 30 hours in a day

Cowlitz, since you seem convinced your tax dollars are supporting the entire WDFW as well as the rest of public works in the state, would you post your tax return so we can all see just how much you are contributing?

What a low class thread this is.

Damn!

Another state employee is pi$$ed off again!


Cowlitzfisherman

Actually I'm a business owner Cowlitz. So the business I started pays taxes, and the jobs resulting also pay taxes. But I'm sure you know how that works. Now how about that tax return, eh?

Do you think that you got the gonads to post your total complete tax returns on this site?

I got the gonads to do so, but I'll bet you don't!

My total income is less then $15,000, so I say put up or shut up your big mouth!

and on that , I still have to pay taxes!!!

Cowlitzfisherman

I didn't think so.

Most likely while I was out fighting big business companies i.e., Tacoma Power for last five years of my life, you were rolling in big bucks. I guess it all depends on if you walk the talk, or you want to make big money! I am still waiting to see your tax returns!

And yes, I do still run a small business, but it's for all the fishermen best interest. Can you claim to be doing the same?


Cowlitzfisherman

I'm a government (city) employee here in Washinton and it was brought to our attention months ago that this same web site has all our salaries listed. At first I was disturbed, then realized everything I do at work, being payed by tax payers, is public. This includes email, letters, timecards, etc... They have a right to know where their dollars go. I agree with a previous post that names aren't necessary and they should just list jobs or job categories. But we are told in advance that EVERYTHING is public knowledge!!

I wonder CFM do you want to post the salaries of police, teachers and firemen. They too are public employees.

Or how about posting the WFDW employee's leave records, performance reports, sick leave, on the job injuries reports. Should all public employees lose their privacy as a requirement for employment?

I know for a fact that the entrance requirements for a game warden are very tough. THey select only the best of the best., then ask them to put in long hours, put up with illinformed loudmouths and get by on a barebones budget. I salute them. I wish we could afford to pay them more and to hire more of them.

I find that most folks are paid what they can demand based upon education, work history, personality and other related factors. In other words most of us get what we deserve.

Born to fish

There are really two worlds out there! If you're younger and working, life is good… but when you get older and you're not working anymore for whatever reason, life is a hell of a lot harder! If you got a supper retirement package …life is good! If not, then you are among the rest of us! Most state workers do have great retirement and medical packages. If you don't work for the state, you probably can not afford to buy such a package!

But there are a lot of us that do not have such great benefits, and that is why we question how much of our money goes to whom and where. It's really nothing personal, but with our limited dollars, its only fair that we know how, and where are taxes moneys are being spent.

Fishtales

You have a very good attitude and understand exactly what every public employee should also understand.


surecatch

You say;" I wonder CFM do you want to post the salaries of police, teachers and firemen"

If you go back to my original post, you will notice that ALL state employees were listed. I did not attempt to tell anyone who to check on except WDFW. It is 100% their own choice to do that too. That is why we live in America! The choice is their own. If they want to check up on the salaries of the people who "you have named"…so be it! It is their right to do so! Since you claim to be a "writer" you should know that better then most. It's one of our freedoms that we are still allowed to enjoy. I don't think people really care what the requirements are for becoming a cop, or game warden unless they choose to become one, so what does that have to do with what we are paying them?

You said; "I find that most folks are paid what they can demand based upon education, work history, personality and other related factors. In other words most of us get what we deserve."

Well that's great! Now most people will also know how much we are paying them to do these services! They are "public servants" you know! I don't see a huge fleeing of any public servants lately do you? So it can't be all that bad!

Cowlitzfisherman

CFM: If you make as little as you say, our taxes probably don't pay for much, maybe a new road sign, or something like that. It shoudln't be a real big concern. Cheer up, maybe your taxes went to something you really like, such as the EPA.

Your sad old argument quoted above has been the mantra of those who hate paying a fair amount to any sort of Government worker for at least 30 years. What you may not grasp is that many public employees, including cops, teachers, and firemen, do their jobs because they love them, not simply for the remuneration. The fact that schoolteachers don't leave in droves is love of teaching, not the "huge" salary we pay teachers. And no, I am not a teacher, nor am I planning on responding to this thread again. As a preious poster said, this is a really low class thread.

State workers in general are a joke. Half the work for twice the pay. When you drive through a state construction site more often than not they are standing there twidling their thumbs instead of working. Yep that's my money well spent.

Atleast now, thanks to cfm, I know just how much money I'm wasting.

You boys that work for the state don't bother crying back to me on this thread cause all I'll hear is blah blah blah blah.

I have several buddies that work for the state and they'll all agree to what I said. But as long as they're getting payed for doing little to nothing why not keep getting payed for doing little to nothing.

surecatch

If this was such a low class thread as you now claim it to be, why did you feel so compelled to make so many posts? Including mind, you are among the top three posters!

Now your running off with when you were confronted one on one? I have noticed that you are getting pretty touchy when someone gets to you lately. You can't win every issue that you bring fourth. So why make posts when you know you can't win on the issue?


So there is nothing new here. You certainly have your thoughts, and many others have theirs too. That surly does not make yours the only right one and every one else is wrong. Looks like about 50% of the posts on this thread think that the public jobs and salaries ought to be made public information. So maybe this time you’re the old one out!


Stay cool

And thanks Glowball


Cowlitzfisherman

So CFM what is your point? Something in particular or just in general? Any suggestions as to what could be done....who or what would you cut, reduce or change? Salary rates for all those positions are determined by surveys of similar positions nationwide within all types of government and private industry. You ask why someone wouldn't take the opportunity to move to a private job with better salary. Well in my case which is similar to many if not all other bios it would mean changing our consideration/perspective of the natural resources we work with from one of conservation to one of pure profit making for our employer. I personally could have a much higher salary and level of perks if I chose to join the commercial industry....but that would also mean having to change my way of working with natural resources. Glowballs perspective of state workers using the context of DOT employees shows a lack of any knowledge of WDFW employess and what they do....maybe he should try volunteering for a field project sometime so he may speak with actual knowledge of what he is talking about. ltlcleo I knew you were raised right....e-mail me as the fishies be in mass quantities below the cabin. Nuff said...continue to piss and moan.

Nah Cowlitz, I don't take any of this personal. I made the choice for who I work for and this stuff just comes with the territory.

I'm not directing the rest of this at you Cowlitz, but the board in general. By the way, it sounds like you've figure out who I am, so you gonna drop me a hint about yourself

I think if push came to shove and we compared equivalent jobs between private and state sector I think we'd see similar good to bad employee ratios. If that were actually the case, would folks feel that's acceptable or would state workers be held to a higher standard?

I know last week I went to several parts houses looking for some car parts and one guy was too busy bs'ing on the phone to help me. Another store the guy had no clue what I was after and had no clue how to look anything up. The other two stores employees were very helpful, but just didn't have the part I needed. I've also been trying to find someone to draw some building plans for me because I don't have time right now. Some folks won't even call me back and the others were just too busy to help me out. I tried to get them to recommend someone else and for whatever reason they weren't willing to help me out. Now if I added these up over the last couple of weeks, it would give someone the idea that a lot of private sector employees are worthless overpaid bums. Another example would be trying to hire a plumbing or electrical contractor where I live. From personal experience, it's an excercise in futility and when they do show up they bring the $30 part and spend 15 minutes installing it then expect you to pay $150 to $200.

Now in that same time I've had to contact L&I and employement securities to pay my workers comp and unemployment insurance. In both cases the clerks were very courteous and helpful. In one office it probably took 10 minutes or so to take care of things and probably 15 minutes to take care of things in the other. No complaints at all and I thougth they treated me better than the employees at a couple of the parts houses.

I know there are plenty of the exact opposite stories, but my question is: are state employees really worse or paid more than private sector employees as a whole?

Is there a similar website that lists the names of people collecting unemployment and welfare?

CFM as an expert you do acknowledge that natural resource budgets paid for by your tax dollars is about 1.5% of the state budget. This includes WDFW, DNR, DOE, IAC, Conservation Commission, State Parks and a couple other obscure agencies. All of those agencies get to split the 1.5 pennies out of every dollar you pay into the state budget thru various means.....used to be over 2.5% but hey life is tough lately. Some other state agency got that 1%. So you got a plan or what? What? No? You don't have one? Sheesh? Your great at stirren the crap but sure are short when it comes to bringing solutions to the discussion. How bout this...we all pay extra on our licenses for guaranteed increases in enforcement? Maybe pay more for increased access maintenance and acquisition? I would....oh btw I'm a taxpayer also.

CF- Thank you for appreciating my post, it is honestly how I feel.
Glowball- What you posted reflects what kind of friends you have if they actually work so little! Most of the "road-side-shovel-holders" I've seen are contractors, paid by gov't agencies, that were unfortunately awarded contracts based on bids. They are the ones taking it easy on the gov't dollar.

gooose

Now I understand why someone pulled a similar post off on the "other" fishing board! Aren't you one of the moderators there? It's kind of funny because I followed the "Rules" of that website board, yet apparently there were too many people who were on WDFW payrol or other state jobs that were concerned that the public would know what they are paying their "employee". You shouldn't have taken it so personally and allowed who every removed the post to do so.

It shows just (or at least gives the strong impression) how scared some public servants are about anyone knowing what we "the public" are actually paying them to do. If you want to talk more about what went down on your site, please email me and we won't waste Bob's dime on it here.

But let's talk about some of the issues that you have brought up and see if we can deal with it without getting all excited at each other. You asked me; "So CFM what is your point? Something in particular or just in general? Any suggestions as to what could be done....who or what would you cut, reduce or change?

First, my original point of posting this website was to allow other board members to have the "opportunity" to see what "they" are paying some of "there" employees. I know that is kind of hard for state workers to accept, but "they" do work for "us" and are not employed privately. How many times have we had to depend on the information regarding "state employees" vs how much money is actually going to our fish? Now we all know if we choose to visit that site how much money goes to who! No more BSing! Now people can actually see how much is being spent on salaries and wages versus how much is going to the fish. The picture is much bigger then just WDFW, its shows all of State Government wages, and everyone can see what we are really spending our state monies on. It could allow us to add more funding to the WDFW as well as seeing the area's where there is plenty of "fat". And yes, even you know gooose that not all WDFW funds are used properly. Please don't ask me to name them because people can check the list and make up their own minds about that one!



Secondly, you said that I said; "You ask why someone wouldn't take the opportunity to move to a private job with better salary" I never have said that! But since you bring up the issue, I will give you my opinion! Most of the time (but not all of the time) public employees will not leave their public positions by choice because they are afraid to "complete" in the out side world of work and "competition" ! Most all public jobs are advanced by "how long" you have been there and not how well you have performed. In the real world (that's the one that most of us have to deal with) we have to compete against each other for advancement or financial gain. It depends on how hard and how good we do our jobs, and not on how long we have been employed there. We don't get paid for every holiday that is on the calendar, and we don't get all the other "perks" that state workers get. We get laid off because we don't work the hardest, while the state worker only gets laid off when his seniority number comes up.

Finally, you say;"So you got a plan or what? What? No? You don't have one? Sheesh? Your great at stirren the crap but sure are short when it comes to bringing solutions to the discussion."

gooose if you get off your soap box and reread all my posts on this issue, you will see that this plan crap is all in your making. All this ranting on is because someone who knows you personally now knows what the state is paying you! That's all I can make out from your rambling on about 1% of this equals 0.2% of what ever issue you are ranting on about. Your feelings may have been hurt because people who personally know you, now know what you are being paid; but on the other side of the coin, some "really good things" have already happen because of this information. I have been asked by these people not to reveal the issues because it may effect there position on our board, so I am happy to see that this post has helped them out. I learned a long time ago, that you can't please everyone.

Born to Fish

I really don't have any idea who you are. I do know a lot of people in WDFW, so maybe we do know each other. Your profile says that you started in 2-03 and that is why you probably do not know who I am. I have never attempted to hide who or what I am from this board. My name is Bob Reid, I leave in Toledo, and I am the founder of CPR-Fish. I have always been open and right up front with every member on this board. I am very opinionated and vocal on my views and I have never attempted to hide my identity from this board at any time. That in its self should tell you something about me!

That's probably one of the reasons why some may hate what I say. I walk my talk, and say what I believe to be the truth about fish and their management. I am not always right (darn I hate saying that) but I am always straight forward about the way I feel on issues. I usually am very blunt and don't beat around the bush about how I feel about an issue. How was that for a clue to my identity?

Just wanted you ( our board members) to know how much power Bob's board has, and that Bob should consider it as a "complement" to just how many people actually read what is posted here.

This a direct quote from the Webmaster of the http://www.lbloom.net/

"… I'm amazed at the amount of traffic at these forums. My website visits are usually around 500 people on weekdays and 200 on weekends. There were a minimum of 250 extra visits on Friday and 200 extra on Saturday, because of the outdoor forum."

Bob's web site is quickly becoming one of, if not the best web sites around. Thanks again Bob for allowing us to post such useful and informative issues. It's certainly is a fair and balance forum, and I would personally like to thank the boards moderators for allowing this thread to continue in an orderly matter.

Cowlitzfisherman