DURO,

It would never work. Common sense is not tolerated in politics. You go in honest and hardworking........and you either get voted out or you are assimilated into the quagmire with everyone else.

It's inevitable.........and how would you feel if you voted cfm into office and then he came out lobotomized?

Thanks DUROBOAT15 and Dan

I thought about running for County Commissioner a couple years back because I was the campaign manager for a person who was running for that position. In the middle of our campaign, he suffered a massive stroke and you the rest. I had lots of people wanting me to take his place and run for his replacement, but my wife told me if I did, she would flat ass leave me. She's a great person, but she's not much for fighting politics or political issues like I am. After weighing all the options, she won, and now the board has to put up with me

I've also been the campaign manager for a person who ran for the Lewis County PUD Commissioner and I was also the campaign manager for a person who ran for the Coroners Office in Lewis County.

So it's in my blood to represent the "public" best interest and make changes.

Thanks again for that complement… they are far in few when you are for making change!

Ps: Dan, I will see if I can locate the law that addresses the exemptions from levies!

Cowlitzfisherman

I think the guy that puts the "Wash. St. Employees Salary and Job Title" information on the web ran for state treasurer or somesuch once but lost.

Maybe he was brained for just running cause he's dumb enough to put his own info on the web for all to see. If you want to contact him the info follows...

Louis Bloom
1498 S. West Camano Drive
Camano Island, Washington
98292

Home Phone: 1-360-387-9682
fax: 1-630-604-8993
email: manaco@whidbey.net

When he's not working he loves to fish.

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Here's a quote from Mr. Blooms website:

A city of seattle employee e-mailed me and said:
"This is great that you have put up the information so that the people can see openly who and how much they are paying for government--so they may make up their own mind whether they receive fair value or not."

The washington state court of appeals said in november 2002:
"free and open examination of public records is in the public interest, even though such examination may cause inconvenience or embarrassment to public officials or others."

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Of course she did........and NOW we're seeing how smart you really are, I mean not fighting a battle you can't win.

Yep Dan the man is a genius!!! Not to fight that battle

Dan
There are a lot of WAC's that address these tax exemptions so you will have to look through them all to get the exact details! I called our local Auditors Office and they transferred me to the Appraisers Office. The girl didn't know exactly which WAC relates to this exemption, so she gave me several for you to check out. She did say that you had to 61 or older, a full time resident of Washington and your joint income must be $30,000 or less. She said that you are allowed to deduct your residence, and up to one acre of land with this exemption!

These are the WAC's to check out and see if you qualify;

WAC- Title 458-16; 458-16A; and 458-19

Hope this helps you find what you are looking for.

Cowlitzfisherman

Duro and CFM,

You guys are right, what have I been thinking. As Duro says, "with your common sense" - after all, those teachers are way over paid. I mean, all they do is teach kids, you know, tomorrows tax payers and public/private leaders. We should pay them less so we only attract from the bottom of the talent pool. Why would we ever want to get the best and brightest teaching the future. Do you really think 62k is to much to pay a skilled educator. Any idea what the mean starting salary for someone with an advanced degree is? How about with 10 years experience in their field? I would like to see them be paid more personally. Most of the positions are requiring Masters Degrees now and they should be rewarded for attaining the higher level of education that will help keep this country competitive for the future, along with making the positions more sought after by the best. Shame on me though for thinking long term and not just until Friday @ 5:00.

And no, I am neither a teacher nor someone from the public sector.

Hey Dan,

Good news! You don't have to be poor! If you itemize deductions on your tax return, property taxes (including school levies, I believe) are deductable from your Federal income tax liability. Well... at least that's what my accountant Seymore Dinero has been telling me!

Predator Dawg



You just said it all, and that's why some of us are so concerned!

I personally know a lot of teachers, and that is what' so concerning! How about the one last year that broke is arm when he was out playing golf with his other teacher buddies and he rolled there golf cart over and broke is arm because he was so damn drunk that he couldn't even control his cart? Yep, I know he wasn't in school, but apples don't fall far from the tree that grows them either!

How come we never hear about great events like that? Yep, every teacher is the best, just like everyone else is also the best in their own occupation! There are plenty of teachers out there that are smart in "education" but not to smart when it come having common sense!

I say reward the "good ones", and dump the ones that are bad…but that usually will not happen when you have such a strong union that the teachers have!

The "name" teacher means noting! It's the person behind that name that truly counts!

PS; yes, I am a parent and our daughter has become very, very successful in her life!

What was that saying about apples don't fall far from the tree?

Cowlitzfisherman

CFM,

You just made a great statement for why they should be paid more, attract better talent where it is needed. (I'm not against weeding out ones that need to be, but I am solidly against less pay or cutting back levies that would negatively affect their pay)

CFM-

For the record, I never have complained to a mod about anyone or anything. I have no fear of telling how I feel much like you. But dont blame me for the link being pulled unless you feel that my arguements were that compelling...

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you weren't being personal.... And you need to give me the benefit of the doubt on what I have to say next is accurate.

I also have another angle on why it shouldn't be allowed on the internet. That information is an exclusive right to the citizens of washington as you have stated. What if I were to agree, but my concern is that it is not exclusive to only the residents of our state. That information is available to the entire world. Why should residents of brazil be able to pull up information for washington state employees? If the gubment cant insure that only state residents view this material, then they need to find another way of getting the information out without jeopardizing my rights to privacy. ( I think I have found my angle to fight this with... ya gotta admit its pretty good!)

Now, cfm I want to deal with your levy and teacher salary/ benefit stuff. I know some others chimed in, but you and I seem to be the main players here so ...

levy's have absolutely nothing to do with teacher salaries. Levys are for school operation and maintence only. That means power, renovations, operations as they pertain to the actual building, and busing I believe. Teachers hate levys as much as you do. I despise that time of year. See, I too am a taxpayer. My property taxes are huge and I'm sick of seeing them climb. But honestly, most of the schools in my area are in bad shape. Mold, water damage, and numerous safety issues are present. Our district is in the third year of cutting back major funds. My son is a second grader and is on a bus that is so crowded that kids are standing in the aisles for the ride home because they cut so many routes. Even if you think teachers make too much... voting down a levy does nothing but hurt kids. It doesn't come out of our pockets in any way, nor does that money make it in either. Usually sports porgrams are the first to go after a levy failure, or parents are force to pay for athletics. This means the kids who need something to do after school the most, usually cant afford to play so they "hang out". This is bad news... you probably see enough of bored teenagers where you live... lets keep the agressive one in a sport under close scrutiny!

Now- lets deal with the "overpaid, great benefits, all that vacation stuff. Once I posted all the education that it took for me to climb to a decent wage on the salary schedule and I got ripped for that. But, I'm going to do it again so you get an idea what it takes to get to the 50k mark on the salary. The average teacher gets a four year degree, then student teaches. Once they get a job, they have to do what is called a "fifth year" where they take another year of school. That degree is pricey to earn ( I still pay on mine) Most teachers that stop there could apply for free and reduced lunch at their own schools and get it. 20-23k is a reasonable estimate of they're salary. In order to get up the salary schedule I had to go back and get a masters degree which took 2 years and several thousand dollars out of my pocket. I did that during those lovely smmers and every weekend for that two years while I was teaching. That will get you into the 30k range....6-7 years of college to get to that salary. I also went back and got a degree in psychology because i thought it would help me work with the kids I am seeing more and more of now days. 3 years for that second bachelors degree... again, nights weekend and that lovely summer time I keep hearing about. That will put you in the uper 30's to low 40's. 9 years of college to get to the 40k range.
We do get yearly raises for the first 16 years.. or 17 maybe. Then we will never get another raise for the rest of the time we teach unless gubment approves one... which they often promise, but rarely pay. I also pay $400 a month out of pocket for my part of my familys health care... (2 adults, 2 kids...) It has gone up five years in a row.

I can honestly tell you that I had 4 weeks off this year during the summer. I had classes to attend (which I paid for) just to keep my certificate current (even though I cant be paid anymore for the credits earned.. I'm at the top of that scale). I also coach to supplement my income, football eats up another 2-4 weeks with camps and two a days., plus adds at least 4 hours a day 6 days a week. I coached 4 sports for 5 years in a row.... With coaching I average a 12 hour day. I never sit at my desk reading the paper, and I work very hard as do most of the people I work with. Try teaching algebra to 30 hormone ridden teens... it can be ugly.
I have worked many jobs before I became an educator... I worked for a small logging operation for a couple of years, I have framed houses, installed cable tv, excavated, and I still work concrete (foundations and driveways mostly) in the summers and some weekends in the spring.... I know what hard work is. Teaching is incredibly tough.... most parents cant handle being around their own kids, try 180 teenagers a day. The time demands are absurd. Most jobs you do a 40 hour week and anything above that you're paid over time. In this profession you're working at least 50 and if you get anything extra (even for working the summer) its HALF TIME... thats right, about half your daily rate for teaching summer school, or saturday school... I refuse to do it.
I realize there are those who wont care, and think we make too much and do nothing regardless of what I saw. I dont really care about that... Thats the uninformed thinkng they're experts about school because they went there once. They have no idea other than what they remember about their own teachers. Luckily over 80% of the voters in this state disagree with them. I stay in the profession because I get a kick out of seeing a kid "get it" when I teach something, and hearing about former students/players making a name for themselves as adult . The downside is that some dont make it... some die or are killed (another story, another time) Thens its hard to go back into the room... I guess it has its ups and downs. I dont plan on getting rich, nor am I sure I'd want to. My wife and I both teach so we do OK financially.

Now cfm... once again. I read what you asked, I have a better understanding of the law thanks to your challenge. But, I dont agree completely that it is a good law as written. I do think some disclosure is a good idea, how much...well thats where it gets fuzzy. ( and honestly why should you care because its highly unlikely I could do anything about it....) but you asked that we tune this down and try and keep it civil...and I have. I understand your PO'ed because it was pulled. But, I had zero to do with that. If you want to bring it back down to a discussion... I'm in.

Again, my disclaimer about grammer and spelling.... I'm a math teacher for god's sake, I'm not perfect!

181 day contract (I'd love to go to year round school but PARENTS always kill the idea when it comes up?? go figure.)

15 credits required every five years just to keep your teaching certificate... even when they stop paying you for your education because more than a masters degress plus 90 credits. (14 years experience)

3 days at thanks giving, 2 weeks at christmas ( I must admit thats pretty nice) 1 week spring break ( I never get this one because of coaching baseball)

Day shift is laughable... in at 7:30 out at 6:30 or later.. more like shift and a half. (unpaid of course)

Most of those breaks during the school year other than the ones I mentioned above and federal holidays (We dont make these) are spent in meetings (I hate em) or conferencing (not much fun either).

I love letting people how teaching really is. I plan on writing a book when I finish... I have tons of note and a title... "Why Schools Fail"
Chapter 1 - Politicians... Chapter 2... State/federal mandated testing , Chapter 3... Misinformed Public... , there are others I wont bore you with.. but I'm serious. I have so many idiotic things I've seen in my time in this profession! Some are actually pretty funny too.

Again, believe what you want... I wont change everyones opinion. But I wont stop trying either...

Ba,Ha,Ha,Ha

Your killing me! I have worked for the county for 16 years under 6 different supervisers and five directors I have survived 2 layoffs while not having seniority. I give the public there moneys worth every day and some. I do everything from clean sh$t off toilet seats to work closely with show promoters to make sure everything runs smooth as a babies butt. things in between are to numerous to list them all but a few are plumbing, all facets of irrigation from the water source to the sprinkler heads, landscape design and construction, heavy equipment operation, all facets of building maintenance,sports field maintenance and yes I even pound nails like you.


All that and more for just $15.90 an hour.
Alot less then I am worth! But its for you the taxpayers.

There are losers in every profesion. I have seen some framers that smoked so much dope they couldnt do nothing but stare at the wood and forget what the hell they were supposed to do with it!



Those guys you see standing around dont last long. If you dont work you are sent down the road, and usually end up as a construction worker.

181 days!
Hell cutting timber I get 181 days in by july!!!

If you all want to talk about working hard go fall timber 320 + days a year...Hell not even that try it for 2 hours thats all!!

Work hard haaaaa Not even!!!!!

I agree, and its unfortunate that those are the ones that are seen as representative of the job. The guy holding the sign, smoking the cigarette, cold beer in the cooler for his break, pants hanging down so his butt is hanging out... not much fun having people think he is how all county workers are... I've seen plenty working their butts off too.

Its the same with teachers. There are some bad ones, and yes they are protected by the union to some extent. But they often get squeezed out... made to teach out of their subject area, or bounced from school to school, sometimes shunned by other teachers in their building... we dont like being represented that way either. I honestly think most people work hard for their money. How could someone get up and go to work every day to do a crappy job?

Did it for 2 years and it sucked. Fell trees and set choker. Nearly got killed a half dozen times. No thanks. Thats why I went back to school... That and framing houses in the winter. You must like it or you'd do something else. Its in no way as hard physically... not even close..... Different kind of hard.

TM
I come from a family of paper makers, loggers, heavy equip. operators, lumbermill workers, etc. and have given some time at each of them.

I also saw what their quality of life was like during retirement - so I went to school for something else - at the advice of those same family members.

Then a guy like you tells me I don't work hard. BS Timberman, you don't know me, and you likely don't know any of the others that statement was directed to. But since you are hidden behind the name "TIMBER MAN" you can throw crap out like that to try and justify why you can't hold your coffee cup in the morning until you hands loosen up.

You don't know how I work, and I suspect you have no idea what it's like to teach a class, give a presentation to your peers, put together a statistical report, or whatever the hell else those of us that don't fell timber do.

You likely could do it, but based on your statement, you haven't.

I have no problems working as a professional and could care less what someone thinks when I walk into Swains wearing dockers and buy a pair of loggers.

BTW, I am sure there are a lot of old timers that think "Logging" today would be a vacation day "Back in the Day".

JEFF D to the rescue!

I was trying to be civilized in my response to timber, why I dont know, I must have been feeling sorry for him... or thought the chainsaw fumes were causing the outburst. It was hard work, but I did it at 18yrs old... I have a couple of former football players that graduated last year are logging now. (One said 2 a day football practices were tougher... I suspect he's not toting a saw around though) I was thinking the same thing ... The old timers would laugh Timber right off the barstool! Hell that gas saw, and gravity do all the work they'd say! Them old loggers were the $hit. When I drive to Neah Bay I can see some of the notches cut in the old growth stumps where they stood on the boards to cut them big boys by hand!

Them guys and coal miners had some of the toughest work ever I think. Not many PH.D's in them jobs!

I believe my gramma summed it up best though...

"Ya either work with your back, or ya work with your brain.... And if ya have half a brain, ya wont work with yer back!"

Man this got way off topic.

Ha!

Well I spent 20 years of my life making trees fall and suppling wood and fiber to folks!

Glad you can talk like loggers have no meaning in life! Its an honest way to make a living and I was the 4th! generation. My father fell timber for 50 years and has no problem holding his coffee cup nor out hiking many young uns while hunting.And Mr Dodd he has a great retirement because he saved! not because he had a job with all the benis and retirement but he worked hard SAVED and invested!

I wasnt one of the lucky ones! 3 years ago I smashed my right leg and after a few surgeries and many injections to fix it. I am now disabled enough that a life in the woods isnt going to happen..I start school on the 22nd of sept. for 3 years to become something I never wished! An indoor worker!!! I willl never be able to work hard labor so I guess its gotta be a desk job inside.


.Just a thanks to those that put there life on the line..not to save yours but just to give you the lumber and ass wipe you buy.


.

I wasn't going to post after the thread took a turn for the worse, but after reading what micropterus101 had to say I just couldn't let a fellow fisherman down.

Micropterus101- now I'm not one to tell someone what to do, but man you either need to get an attorney or a better union rep. I noticed at 12:37am today you were making "$20.52 after taxes" and this afternoon at 9:58 your making $15.90. That's pretty rough and a good county employee like yourself shouldn't have to put up with that Then again maybe you did a boo boo today

Sorry, I saw that and just couldn't resist razzing ya. I figure you meant to type $20.52 before taxes.