Here is some info worth taking a look at.
www.msaj.com/papers/commfish.htm

I guess my point is that, although it's hard to stomach for sporties, unless there's a market for the resource, it's not really wasted if we use it for something. Criminy, at the price of pinks, they could use them for cat food and it wouldn't be wasted.

What concerns me more is the use of ocean resources by them, over spawning (don't know if it's really a big threat but I've heard it can cause problems), and even just too damn many dead fish in a stream.

MC,
its kinda funny that in a little over 4 months and 154 posts that you have been labeled a racist not once but twice. Must be something you said ya think!!

Remember "If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck its most likely a duck"
I think the same go's for racists.

Well, that would bother me, but first, you do not know me and I am one of the least racist people I know..... Secondly, it seems that nowadays anyone that speaks negatively about any minority group, even if the complaint is based on fact, are labeled racist...
I can say anything I want bad about caucasions, and would never be called a racist. Don't you think that double standard is wrong?
I am a person that believes in a black and white world (meaning right and wrong..... not a "Racist" comment). I unfortunatley live in a very grey-area based world..... As unpopular as my opinions may be, that does not make me racist, and it is really sad that people throw around the "R" word whenever they want someone to shut up...... I respect your right to your opinion, please give me the same courtesy without labeling me one of the worst things that can be said about someone. If I was Indian and complained about injustice from white people, you and others on this board would jump on my bandwagon. You would not label me a racist then..... What is wrong with that picture? I guess whites are the only ones that have the ability to be racist?

"Never judge a man until you have walked a mile in his moccasins".... Quote from an old wise indian.....
I do not judge specific men based on their race. I judge groups of people (of all colors) based on their actions......

MC

I have in laws who are Muckleshoot and work for the tribe, my father in law is indian, my wife is a registered sioux and yes my kids are part indian. I am white, but have any of you stopped and considered that maybe you are offending people who frequent this board or do you care? Personaly I think all of the indian bashing should moderated more closely on this board, but apparently others don't think so

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nordic:
Personaly I think all of the indian bashing should moderated more closely on this board, but apparently others don't think so

could you please give some examples as to what you refer to as indian bashing thank you

Yeah, but we can biotch about the commercials day and night, even say how we wish they would be put out of business without ever having to worry about being called racist or white supremacist...... What a joke.....

MC

MC, can you answer this question?

"So, MC, you judge populations of people (whether it's actually a race thing with you it's hard to tell...you seem to hate ALL races) by the welfare cases that you deal with in your job? I don't get what you're saying....what do you do?"

I'm trying to appreciate your perspective but it's becoming difficult because you don't answer questions.

What a frickin joke!

I agree with points made on both sides. You guys calling MC a racist just because you dont agree is B.S .
The fact is that indians do waste they do break the law (even there own) and if it was the commercials doing this all the time in our faces we would be all over them too. but the commercials around here follow the rules and dont waste like our so called "enviromental stewards" So of course the indians are going to get picked on.

Have you looked on the bottom of the sound lately there are thousands of discarded gill nets killing fish every day. Yet the muckleshoots can not spend some of there precious casino money to help clean them up?sheesh
.


I dont hate people I hate what they DO Dammit and I have a feeling MC is the same we just happen to hate what the indians are doing right now. Racist my arse! liberal lemmings !

MC,
You really need to get a dictionary and look up the differance between "right" and "privilege".
Once you get done with that go to the linc I posted above and try to learn something about this topic. The Native Americans have Rights that have been upheld by the supreme court. The rest of us have privileges that we can loose. But I dont think you want the true facts in this. You have the "facts" as you see them in your head right or wrong as they may be.

P.S

I thought I would spout off something I hate about commercials too.

I hate it when the state opens area 10 to purse seines for chum and they net the tradition blackmouth spots. there an awful lot of shiny fish in them nets.

First, this is the same supreme court that ruled that the Pledge of Allegance is unconstitutional... Many fighting to have that reversed...
Secondly, you make my point for me.... The fact that they have the "right" whereas it is only a "priveledge" for us is exactly my point....
I do not need to go to your site..... Folks like you need to educate yourself in the "real" world.... Remember, I was married to an indian, and her Uncle was a Board trustee on the reservation.... I had 9 years to "study" the tribal way of government.... The specific tribe my wifes family (and yes, we are friends) belonged to received $11,000,000... from the BIA in 1994. This is a Tribe of approx. 6500 members.
I am tired of inequality in this country. Women complained about it, Blacks, Hispanics, Indians, all rightly so. But now it is my turn to complain about it... I am not rich, but my wife and I paid $11,000.00 in taxes last year and I am tired of it. I also object to Bush's 87 billion request to rebuild Iraq.... I suppose any Iraqis on this board will now call me a racist too.....

Hard work, honesty, and integrity are the foundation for success.... Not handouts from those that practice the above.....

Oh, and BTW Aunty... A little tax from Commercials (that do not use public resources much) is better than no taxes from tribes (that use more than their share of public resources)
We all have to pay taxes to enjoy the modern conveniences such as buildings, roads, electricity, etc... It is not fair that a "soveriegn nation" be allowed to play, but not pay. Nothing in the Treaty states that the tribes will be allowed all that the non-tribals are, but not have to pay their fare share. That is my ONLY beef with the tribes....


MC

PS.... Thank you Micropterus101

Unfortunately you will now probably be labeled "one of MC white supremacist buddies from Idaho" for your effort.

My son, who is Klamath indian and now in the 5th grade, asked me when he was in the 3rd grade why his Uncle did not have to pay taxes like I did.... I simply told him "I din't know" as I know he loves his uncle and the truth probably would not have made sense to him anyway.....

MC

Aunty, you put my thoughts into words perfectly. All I can say is Amen!!!

OH OH EDDIE!!! There you go with religion....H2O and Harley will have your hide.

Been eatin pudding Eddie? Your lips are mighty brown.....

I agree with you Aunty about the commercials raping the resource... That has been corporate americas way of doing business from the start. As far as taxes go, very possibly right on for the FEDERAL tax breaks... What is your excuse for the STATE taxes???? Property taxes pay for a lot like schools, etc.... Why is YOUR tribal agenda any different than mine? I only want them to be treated equally with non-indians. Not treated special. I am also against affirmative action... Add that to my "racist" profile (I'm sure you will). I believe we all should prove ourselves in society, not be born into a "caste system" that affords certain rights or privledges to ANY group of people.

If you folks (those thinking they know me or my intentions) had any inkling as to my true feelings for tribal matters (remember, my son is indian) you may just pull your heads out of your arses long enough to understand that it is in their best interest also. How much better we could work with the tribes if there were not the strong feelings of discontent felt by those like myself, that now feel that we must be less because of OUR skin color. Reverse-discrimination is not a solution to the old problem of discrimination.... But I know you feel differently. I would have to wonder what your agenda's really are, since you have not spelled them out to anyone. Criticize to your hearts content, but at least have the nerve to offer more than just name calling or waving court decisions. Maybe then you will have good points to present and folks like myself (that has probably been more involved with tribal affairs than all of you put together) will listen to the ideas and come together. To continue using the same "Pro-Indian" rhetoric from yesterday is pointless, and is a much overplayed tune....

Flame on...

MC

And one more thing Aunty.... Sad state of affairs if you can control Bob and his board with little statements like your quote above. I really can't imagine that he would remove someone from HIS board just because YOU don't like what they say..... You don't like it... You know my Moniker and Avitar... Dont read it....
About as communistic an idea as I've heard.... "We dont like what he says.. Get rid of him"..... Try reading Mein Kampf Aunty... May interest you....

MC

My view is that whatever the Mukleshoots do to propogate salmon pales in comparison to their harvest.
The photo of their fish in the PI today had gill net marks on them.
I'd rather eat farmed fish than theirs. I agree that they should be boycotted, otherwise, increasing market share will mean increasing prices and increased pressure on the stocks. They should not be encouraged for their methods, which are commercial, not subsistance, as the treaties provided. Mark

MC.
Maybe your right Maybe we should make the treatys null and void and take away the rights and reservations. But in that case I guess that all the real estate that we got from the tribes would go back to them. Maybe they would let us fish on the there land. Maybe they would stick us on the reservations (boy it gonna be crowded). Or they could just charge us rent on there land.
If you do indeed have a native american son thats really a shame nobody with you mind set shoud be raising children.
And I understand why you wouldnt want to look at the site I suggested that would only screw up your opinions with a bunch of FACTS and that may overload your narrow mind.
Oh you say you ex-wifes tribe got 11,000,000 for 6500 menbers. If you do the math that comes up to 1692.30 per member. Hardly a windfall if you ask me.
Than you say you were taxed 11,000 income tax. I paid 21,000 income 4000 property so do I win?

AuntyM,
I know your stance on gill nets but what about the purse seiners?? I have been doing alot of reading on the fisherys and the seiners seem to be pretty evil too. But they dont seem to get as much heat as the gill netters. Is that because they dont fish the terminial areas as much as the gill netters do? Whats your opinion of that?